The Elite Dangerous ingame reputation system thread

[xyphic]

Is this some sort of "dailies", trying to trigger people to log in ?

For someone like me (time-poor), it'll have the opposite effect. If I have to spend much of my sparse time in game pulling myself back up to where I was, I'll lose interest and go play something else.

I understand that it's important to reward people who do play frequently, but doing so by penalising those who don't isn't the way to go about it...

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Currently I'm allied with the Feds, Empire and Alliance. To me this should not be possible and renders the whole reputation system pretty meaningless.

Indeed, but fading rep over time isn't the solution. A better solution would be that as you gain rank in one, your profile becomes more visible to all and that's how you lose rank. So you can do menial jobs at low rank for all (as no-one really cares) but as you start getting trusted, taking jobs for other factions would be seen as a major no-no. Time simply shouldn't come into it, because that's inherently unfair on those who don't have much of it. If time does come into it, to keep time-poor players engaged you need to provide methods for them to progress in the game (the usual one being to allow them to pay real money to progress).

 

[_Flin_]

It took me about 4-5 months to get Allied with the Alliance.

Really, easy on the nerf breaks now.

- 10% modules = more grind
- reputation decay = more grind

What's next? Decaying ships?

Not happy about this at all.
I decently earned my reputation and status by helping one major faction only.

What exactly is the benefit of it?
Two questions:
1. Does this make the game more fun?
Answer: No.
2. Does this make the game perform better and more stable?
Answer: No.
3. Does this make me (subjectively) want to play the game more?
Answer: No.

So why exactly is this in the game now?

 

[Philip Coutts]

This mechanic makes me want to vomit. I can only play a couple of hours a week so there is no point in trying to gain rep at all if it's going to degrade faster than I can make it. Completely alienates the casual player.

 

[CMDR Kuixote]

Han Solo didn't lose rep with the Rebel Alliance while he was hung up on Jabba's wall. Just sayin'.

 

[Dogoncrook]

For someone like me (time-poor), it'll have the opposite effect. If I have to spend much of my sparse time in game pulling myself back up to where I was, I'll lose interest and go play something else.

I understand that it's important to reward people who do play frequently, but doing so by penalising those who don't isn't the way to go about it...

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Indeed, but fading rep over time isn't the solution. A better solution would be that as you gain rank in one, your profile becomes more visible to all and that's how you lose rank. So you can do menial jobs at low rank for all (as no-one really cares) but as you start getting trusted, taking jobs for other factions would be seen as a major no-no. Time simply shouldn't come into it, because that's inherently unfair on those who don't have much of it. If time does come into it, to keep time-poor players engaged you need to provide methods for them to progress in the game (the usual one being to allow them to pay real money to progress).

Time also shouldn't come into it because it's not really how the world works. Hell absence makes the heart grow fonder. Whatever motivates them to add grind into every aspect of the game is behind this and nothing more. Im sure we could all speculate what that is, but it's a battle we lost a long time ago, I'd wager we will see more of it, not less.

The betas are fun. Without the grind you really can go do as you please and blaze your own trail. You can enjoy the things you like to do just for the sake of doing them. Once it's public your just a space crackhead looking for your fix to avoid coming down. Look back on it all and a couple highs may stand out, but it's mostly a fog and all you can remember is that you've smoked a whole lot of crack.

 

[killminster]

A better solution would be that as you gain rank in one, your profile becomes more visible to all and that's how you lose rank.

Yes I agree. That's how it probably should have been done from the start.

The point regarding time poor players is valid. Is rep going to decay over real time or gameplay time? If it's real time then yeah I think that would be unfair, but over game play time it's the same for everyone regardless of whether they play 4 hours a week or 40 right?.

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Time also shouldn't come into it because it's not really how the world works.

Really? How about "What have you done for me lately?" that is a definite real world thing isn't it?

 

[Dogoncrook]

Yes I agree. That's how it probably should have been done from the start.

The point regarding time poor players is valid. Is rep going to decay over real time or gameplay time? If it real time the yeah I think that would be unfair, but over game play time it's the same for everyone regardless of wheter they play 4 hours a week or 40 right?.

Yeah everybody will groan equally, fair is fair. What uproar spurred them to introduce such a tedious mechanic?

"We want a logical universe"

"Release the abstracted mechanic on them, their time is ours! Huehuehuehue."

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Yes I agree. That's how it probably should have been done from the start.

The point regarding time poor players is valid. Is rep going to decay over real time or gameplay time? If it's real time the yeah I think that would be unfair, but over game play time it's the same for everyone regardless of whether they play 4 hours a week or 40 right?.

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Really? How about "What have you done for me lately?" that is a definite real world thing isn't it?

Yeah people are pretty selfish nowadays.

 

[Duckfather]

Not good. Not good at all! So I spend a few weeks out in the black exploring only to find that I've lost rep because I couldn't power-game back in 'civilisation'? I go on holiday to come back after two weeks to find all my rep stuffed because I had the audacity to, oh I dunno, do real life stuff?

At best, this just encourages people to stay in the occupied bubble of space or you might loose all your work. At worst, it will scare people off from playing full stop; why improve rep to get access to good stuff when it all may go up in smoke soon after?

Not impressed

 

[Adam Bourke-Waite]

Hi all,

To let you know we have changed the rate of decay today to make it a bit slower. The effect may not become apparent instantly (as servers need to update etc) but hopefully over the next few days you will notice a difference. Also just to clarify, your reputation should never decay below friendly (or above unfriendly).

Adam

 

[Ytheleus]

So this decay mechanism is based on 'what have you done for us lately', which I think is fine in principle but too enthusiastically implemented. Some suggestions -

1) Major and minor faction reputations should not decay towards Neutral, but instead towards the boundary trigger for the player's current ranking in the neutral direction. (edit ninja'd by Adam ) The consequence would be soft preservation of ranks earned, but a small change in behaviour might cross the boundary with very little effort. Take the (fairly common I imagine) example of a Cmdr who puts a load of work into a minor faction rep. The faction might see the Cmdr as a total hero who is Allied by a healthy margin. If the Cmdr then moves on for a year (say) and returns, it can still be safely assumed that he/she is Allied, but reputation decays to the point where he/she is considered to be just Allied now based on fading memory. This also works in the negative scenario, where someone who was considered a minor criminal some time ago is still remembered as a minor crim but a few good works will return a neutral rep.

2) Transparency for players is lacking. Invisible or poorly interfaced game systems (such as imo faction reps) serve nobody. Invisible mechanisms do not create the impression of hidden forces, they just appear confusing, random and arbitrary unless they are communicated effetcively. One suggestion I like is that progression be accompanied by a simple progress bar. How close am I to friendly? Look at the bar. If I do another crime will I tip over the edge of a reputation boundary? Look at the bar. Suddenly it becomes part of conscious play, rather than something obscure and intangible.

 

[NapalmJunkie]

One suggestion I like is that rank progression be accompanied by a simple progress bar. How close am I to friendly? Look at the bar. If I do another crime will I tip over the edge of a reputation boundary? Look at the bar. Suddenly it becomes part of conscious play, rather than something obscure and intangible.

^THIS! Given that we have bars for Combat/Trading/Exploring now, then I don't think having them for rank/(main faction) reputation should be a problem.

 

[Mephane]

Hi all,

To let you know we have changed the rate of decay today to make it a bit slower. The effect may not become apparent instantly (as servers need to update etc) but hopefully over the next few days you will notice a difference. Also just to clarify, your reputation should never decay below friendly (or above unfriendly).

Adam

What I am now going to say is not directed at you personally, you're probably just the messenger:

You completely missed the point. The problem is not that it is this extremely fast, we all know it has been massively sped up. The point is that we'd have to redo the same work, over and over again, that something achieved, becomes undone. So you cap the decay at friendly/unfriendly now. It boggles the mind why that was not the case already. And still, I don't think that is enough. A level that has been reached should remain persistent. Let the buffer above allied decay so that you are just slightly above the minimum reputation for that level, but keep the level*. That is, if you insist on this game mechanic. I still stand by my word, just remove it entirely. It adds nothing positive to the game, only a lot of repeated extra grind and busiwork, and maintenance.

P.S.: The next time, could things like these be highlighted and explained better in the patch notes, please? A change as massive as this, and all it receives is a short line in a long list of minor tweaks and fixes. This should have been prominently at the top, right next to the changes to the crime system.

*Ah, someone explained it more eloquently than I:

1) Major and minor faction reputations should not decay towards Neutral, but instead towards the boundary trigger for the player's current ranking in the neutral direction. (edit ninja'd by Adam ) The consequence would be soft preservation of ranks earned, but a small change in behaviour might cross the boundary with very little effort. Take the (fairly common I imagine) example of a Cmdr who puts a load of work into a minor faction rep. The faction might see the Cmdr as a total hero who is Allied by a healthy margin. If the Cmdr then moves on for a year (say) and returns, it can still be safely assumed that he/she is Allied, but reputation decays to the point where he/she is considered to be just Allied now based on fading memory. This also works in the negative scenario, where someone who was considered a minor criminal some time ago is still remembered as a minor crim but a few good works will return a neutral rep.

 

[Guidebot]

Rep decay is a bad idea. Anyone remember GTA4 where you constantly had to answer your phone and go and do "missions" with characters in the game to keep them happy with you? Like going for drinks or seeing a film or whatever? Incredibly boring and lame maintenance chores that added nothing to the game, and that was with top grade characters and voice actors. In Elite it's going to be even worse.

No. Just no.

 

[Schlack]

is the decay for minor faction, major faction or both?

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Rep decay is a bad idea. Anyone remember GTA4 where you constantly had to answer your phone and go and do "missions" with characters in the game to keep them happy with you? Like going for drinks or seeing a film or whatever? Incredibly boring and lame maintenance chores that added nothing to the game, and that was with top grade characters and voice actors. In Elite it's going to be even worse.

No. Just no.

the difference here tho is you wont have to take a faction leader bowling (or something else daft that takes you away from the game), you will just have to do a few missions for them, the same missions that involve playing the game. you are an explorer, then sell them some data, you are a trader, then do some trade runs for them..... a BHer, then take out a few of their criminals.

I like this mechanic, esp as it is now capped so you never go back to neutral, but it means we have reasons to keep them happy (esp if they tie in some DECENT rewards for being allied - complementary berthing/docking fees, or better rates of trade in for you old gear perhaps???).

it also means if you really peed off a few people whilst finding your feet in the game, you can just lie low for a while and you lose your hated rep and just go back to unfriendly.... so in some ways it makes things easier.

the second I have to take someone to the movies however, I am out!

 

[Midian Cabal]

Bask grind harder!

 

[Duckfather]

Hi all,

To let you know we have changed the rate of decay today to make it a bit slower. The effect may not become apparent instantly (as servers need to update etc) but hopefully over the next few days you will notice a difference. Also just to clarify, your reputation should never decay below friendly (or above unfriendly).

Adam

With all due respect, this is missing the point.

It initially took me a very long time to get Allied with the Empire for example, back when I had a lot more time to play. I'm now going through a period where I can only login intermittently due to real life, and from Saturday onwards for 3 weeks, I won't be able to play at all due to not being at home. This type of situation happens to me two or three times a year and can seriously impact my game play for months at a time.

Why on earth would I even begin to 'grind' my rep to Allied if I know it will fade back to Friendly while I can't play? If I'd have known this from the get-go, I wouldn't have wasted my valuable game time on something that will evaporate outside of my control!

I'm sure there are many other people out there who feel the same way!

 

[Derath]

With all due respect, this is missing the point.

It initially took me a very long time to get Allied with the Empire for example, back when I had a lot more time to play. I'm now going through a period where I can only login intermittently due to real life, and from Saturday onwards for 3 weeks, I won't be able to play at all due to not being at home. This type of situation happens to me two or three times a year and can seriously impact my game play for months at a time.

Why on earth would I even begin to 'grind' my rep to Allied if I know it will fade back to Friendly while I can't play? If I'd have known this from the get-go, I wouldn't have wasted my valuable game time on something that will evaporate outside of my control!

I'm sure there are many other people out there who feel the same way!

The real question surely is, why would you grind to be allied in the first place? It has next to no game-play impact

 

[Mephane]

With all due respect, this is missing the point.

It initially took me a very long time to get Allied with the Empire for example, back when I had a lot more time to play. I'm now going through a period where I can only login intermittently due to real life, and from Saturday onwards for 3 weeks, I won't be able to play at all due to not being at home. This type of situation happens to me two or three times a year and can seriously impact my game play for months at a time.

Why on earth would I even begin to 'grind' my rep to Allied if I know it will fade back to Friendly while I can't play? If I'd have known this from the get-go, I wouldn't have wasted my valuable game time on something that will evaporate outside of my control!

I'm sure there are many other people out there who feel the same way!

This. The fact that this exists is reason enough to scrap the mechanic. There is no benefit, no added fun, for anyone who can cope with the decay; at best it is a neutral change that might be grudgingly accepted. But for those who cannot, it is a massive detriment to the entire game, to the point where it may not even be worth playing at all.

The real question surely is, why would you grind to be allied in the first place? It has next to no game-play impact

W&t maintenance discount. Better missions. Especially better missions. 1.3 made it so that rank and reputation are very important things to get the good jobs.

 

[Bluebird007]

Can someone summarise what we know for sure of this whole 'decay' thing for me? Perhaps in an edit of the OP?!

What I really want to know is if this is only a PP feature? Or, if I ignore PP altogether is it still going to effect me?
Example: I update to 1.3 but don't bother with any of the PowerPlay features. I am currently allied with the Federation, friendly with a few independent minor factions, unfriendly with others and hostile with some.
If I don't log in for 2 weeks what changes am I likely to find on my return, if any?
Thanks

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The real question surely is, why would you grind to be allied in the first place? It has next to no game-play impact

Perhaps the same reason I wanted to be allied with the Feds - roleplay?! I am a Federal Pilot, I want to rank up with them and be allied to them. It is a goal. I picked a side and have gone for a career in the Federation.