Practically chasing people away from the game

[bamber]

Then I crashed my ship and lost lots of money. Yep, just like many others, all that hard work lost in an instant. I had read the many other threads from so many others, and always agreed that you need the insurance to pay for what you fly.. And I had the insurance, but after the crash it left me almost penniless in the scheme of things, and I lost many weeks of farming/grinding.

Don't get this at all

Ive in the past spent a couple of weeks building up a great trading ship and then "had an accident" and ended up with a replacement and a little money - thing is having that great trading ship it doesn't take long to get it back to where it was before, Yes you may have been making 250000 CR profit before and now you are purchasing 250000 and making only 2500 Cr per run BUT if you have a good route that is varied and also has a number of commodities of differing values you can trade you can make good money quickly and probably with 2 or 3 hrs be pretty close to being back to the 250000 profit runs

This is a hard game - it punishes hard, if you haven't got the desire to play that game then don't, I like the gamble that this game has that I can get reward but I can also lose big and have to go back
.
Play it or don't - I don't play sports simulations because I am rubbish at them and I get no enjoyment - that's not the games fault but mine. I really like long term strategy games that challenge me if this isn't for you its not the games fault

 

[EddyRockSteady]

People come, people go. That's gaming life. OP, you are nothing more than a statistic in the greater scheme if things. We are not going to remember you two days from now so any attempt at an epic rage-quit temper-tantrum thread will always be a useless idea, counterproductive in the extreme. Why bother? The only person whose blood-pressure you are spiking is your own.

Take a deep breath, relax and find something else to do. It's Elite Dangerous and its unfortunately too dangerous for you. That's OK, it's understandable. Accept it, move on and good luck in your future gaming endeavours

 

[Nagual]

Having a big ship and it blowing up, paying insurance and then realising you have no cash for anything else isn't that bad. It's exactly the same as saving up for ages and buying the big ship, forgetting you need cash afterwards. Been there. Done that. You can 2 choices, do simple easy missions from the Bulletin Board. Or downgrade your ship and use the profits to rebuild your funds.

 

[Cmdr Cheese Wedge]

Cool story bru.

 

[Jenos Idallian]

Saw these types of posts all the time in EVE Online. "I quit because I took my shiny purple `x ship` into Lowsec/Null/Wormholes and some meaniehead killed me even though I had the purpz! Do you know how many PLEX I had to buy?! Like 20! CCP is greedy forcing me to do all this!"

Hardcore Sandbox games have a giant disclaimer attached to them. That disclaimer is "Look, when you die. You lose stuff. Lots of it. You don't just click the respawn button and fight 30 seconds later. This isn't CoD. Be smart, and never, ever fly what you can't afford to lose."

Here's the kicker... everyone that plays these games has violated that rule and gotten burned for it. Hell, in EVE, one of the first things I did after buying a Carrier was to load up literally all of my assets and start jumping into null space looking for an unoccupied system. Want to take a guess how that ended? When I say I lost everything in EVE, I actually mean it. Had less than a million ISK to my name, lost my +5 Implants, even lost Advanced Spaceship Command 5 because I gambled and didn't update my clone. I got y, ragequit and swore I'd never come back. Three days later I was in a Merlin doing level 1's rebuilding. On a totally unrelated note, Fk Pandemic Legion.

Bottom line, everyone has their knocks and bumps. That's the way games like this go. You either accept your loss and learn from it, or you stop playing. Either way, the fault is yours, and whether you come to grips with that or not is, also, entirely your call.

 

[Matnik]

I'd be happy if none of these types of threads got any kind of response and dropped off the front page into the oblivion where they belong.

...Though I suppose writing this response doesn't help.

 

[Yaffle]

All

We've had to remove a lot of posts from here that were off topic, image spam, insulting, and baiting.

If you are going to reply please make sure it's about the topic, and not other users.

Please don't bait or troll.

 

[M.E.A.T]

Here's a little tip. Even if you are left with almost nothing after paying insurance fee, you can downgrade some of your modules , turn it to trader and start trading again. Also it is a very good idea to buy smaller ships, fit them to the max and tug them away before you progress to more expensive ships. that way you still have some assets to sell when needed or you can earn credits with lower and more manageable insurance cost.

Ps. many have pointed out that what you did made you one of the trolls you hate. 'nuff said.

 

[JeffRyan]

Whilst I can sympathise with some of the points and losing progress and the community (some of them, not all of them, most people are good peoples, definitely the minority are not nice). One thing I can't understand is setting out to trash the company.

I mean I've bought games, some of which I was really really looking forward to. Elemental being the classic in that regard, I really thought Stardock could do no wrong until that heap came out.

But no matter how disappointed I've been in a game or angry (and I've been angry at FD over the last few years), I'd never delibrately set out to trash them or go out of my way to tell people how much I hated the game. It all being relative (no matter how many people agree with you).

Frontier have, without a single doubt, made some bad choices. But they've also made a lot of good ones.

I'm not the gamer with a lot of time. I have a family, I have work and depending on how the cards fall I can get in anything from 2-10 hours a week. Sometimes less than 2.

I think the game's great, flawed, but great. I think the community is probably above average. We have our bad apples, but we have our genuine heroes (in the sense of kindness, helpfulness) you only have to look at the guides put together by some fantastic members of this community to see that that's true.

I'm sorry your experience ultimately was so negative. But I think setting out to trash Frontier is taking your personal experience and opinion too far. Because you think your opinion is objective truth. It really isn't. It's your subjective experience.

 

[highpsiturbo]

Can we start a counselling group to help deal with the effects of "dying without enough cash" I have done it mostly flying into rocks or boosting into the interior of a station and am deeply scarred by my stupidity. Still keep coming back though mainly because I haven't actually worked out why my actions are everyone else's fault......

 

[Leper Messiah]

I dunno but the I think there's (vastly simplified of course) two types of ED player, those who can devote a large amount of time to the game and can amass a lot of credits relatively fast. And then there's those who cannot devote a large amount of time to the game and thus amass credits more slowly.

Now the games cost of ships and insurance (which is not insignificant) do not have as much an effect on the former as it does to the latter. I may be wrong but the OP could be in the latter group. So the loss of his ship had a MUCH bigger impact.

It doesn't help that those who amass money easily in the game (through time or willingness to grind) in the main seem to be completely unsympathetic to those who can't amass money at the same rate. And it's this group that is the biggest in the lack of empathy and sympathy on the forums, which is something I agree with the op. Those posters are almost 100% toxic in their posting.

To OP, I wouldn't give up on the game so completely though, it's clearly a work in progress (like most modern games!) and who knows there could well be stuff in the pipeline/future that will really click with you and re-invigorate the desire to play!

 

[Pb1of6]

Reading between the lines You have quit the game because of the forums, yes it has it's flaws but insurance costs is not one them. You do need to grind but only to a certain level it all depends if you want that "A" grade anaconda or a decent ship to enjoy the game with. Don't give up your logging details, have a break, DONT read the forums ( or use the ignore button ) and give it another try.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

I somewhat agree with (some of) the problems the OP mentions. ED has a lot of good and cool ideas, but sometimes they don't match in my opinion.
Disclaimer: Please add "In my opinion" and "I think" and similar things to what I write - it's my opinion and my points of view and not fact or religious dogma. So relax.

Community and Developers
I think it's important for the community and the developers to understand why some players are unhappy with the game and why this is a problem. Unhappy players can become quickly people who don't play the game and that can result in bad PR. It's often said that all PR is good PR, but I don't think that's the case in most situations. It's the way others perceive the game that matters, not the way it really is.
I guess it's incredible hard for the developers to find out what the community as a whole (all players) want and how they can create something that makes everybody happy.
Communicating the decisions, plans and ideas to the community is - in my opinion - very important. That way the players know what the game is about and in what direction the game is heading. I think FD could be a bit better in this regard, but they are improving.

The community is equally important to the success of this game as the game itself. Not only how players behave in the game, but equally what they write on the forum. It all adds up to the way a player or a potential buyer sees the game. Every player who stops playing this game because of the responses to a thread in this forum hurts the game.

The cost of ship destruction
The current system of insurance and the option to lose everything certainly adds thrill and risk to the game. It forces the player to think about his actions. It's a way to make things meaningful. That's good.
The bad thing is, the system isn't balanced. The destruction of a ship is terrible for someone who doesn't have a lot of credits and it's completely meaningless for someone who has a lot of cr. Those who have lots of credits can play this game in a completely different way than someone who has just enough cr. to pay the insurance 2-3 times. The whole system encourages players to attack the weak in superior ships. It's basically a game mechanic that can be used to prevent others to get ships that can become a threat.

Grinding
Some like it, others don't. The problem is, that it's needed. A player needs to have lots of money to be able to afford losing a ship once or twice. A player has to grind to be able to buy a bigger ship if he doesn't want to be obliterated in seconds by a CMDR in a bigger ship.
It would be cool if a player could fly around in a Sidewinder, earning enough money for insurance while doing something that matters without being in a death trap and the prime target for everybody else. That way losing everything and being back in the Sidewinder wouldn't hurt that much.
I like the small ships, but the game doesn't offer that much for me to fly those ships. They have no purpose beside being stepping stones to the bigger ones. To get those bigger ships you have to grind.
Having to grind to keep the reputation rank is making things worse. One of the advantages of being allied to a faction is, that you get more and better missions (from my experience). The missions are one of the few things that are doable with small ships without grinding.
I think no player should have to grind to enjoy a game, grinding should add something that is nice to have but not needed.

So, that's my wall of text for this thread

Fly save and with insurance CMDRs!

 

[Mikey2305]

OP... Oh dear, So wide of the mark and so misinformed on so many issues... No point in even trying to respond, you have obviously made your mind up. Thanks for sharing

 

[Deleted member 38366]

Hmm...

ELITE is indeed a game at both lets the Player succeed - but also fail.
Make a mistake - you pay for it. Upto and including getting all the way back to a Sidewinder.

Nothing wrong with that - it's ELITE after all, not some respawn game. And most people know that, appreciate it.

When it comes to the Forums... well, noone is forced to use them.
Read-only is more than sufficient to extract valuable information out of it.

When it comes to Open Mode and its potential consequences - it's not free of alternatives. Solo/Group modes exist - use them at your leasure and remember you don't own anyone anything.
Don't let anyone try to tell you how to play affect your gameplay - ever. Remember they wouldn't listen to your demands on them as well

When it comes to the "special risks" of Open Play - enough have been written about it.
Again - noone is forced to play in Open, it's a free choice that'll build experience (the good, bad & the ugly) and essentially make you a better/more competent CMDR.
Might need some insurance cases to build that experience though, so having a healthy Credits buffer is almost mandatory (at least highly recommended).

Insurance apparently will get a rank-based overhaul in V1.3 (unsure to what effect). So at least the mechanic of it is being looked at and worked on.

 

[persephonius]

I have incurred ship destruction twice that has resulted in me restarting in a side-winder, the first time was in an asp, and then in a Fer-De-Lance, and both times I was just purely impatient and purchased the ships before I could afford them. So both times were entirely my fault and coming from an EvE online background, I most certainly should have known better (actually I do know better, but risked it anyway). Having to re-start again in a side-winder because of impatience in my opinion is not overly punitive at all. In EvE online, being destroyed without the insurance for a good enough jump clone could see months of skill point progression wiped instantly, it is kind of the same design. Since I have lived with this sort of thing for many years playing EvE online, I kind of take the whole risk factor for granted. There could be a simple insurance tweak where you could pay your insurance when you buy your ship, so then you don't have to worry about loosing it at all during ship destruction. But this removes a massive immersive feeling from the game. When I was flying a ship I knew I didn't have insurance for, you really do start to genuinely fear things, even the slightest bump was scary. When it did happen, and I lost my Fer-de-lance, and restarted in a side-winder, well, I sank in my chair, it was horrible. It did indeed create a rather real emotional response from me through a less than real event. Restarting in a side-winder also felt embarrassing, but I did. It took an hour or two to get over it, but when I did get over it, I had to think that no game I have ever played has created such a response from me. It clearly highlighted to me that I valued the time I had spent that was lost, and the immersion was real enough that I did have such a response of frustration and anger. This I believe is one of the games strengths. Ship destruction and death shouldn't be simply laughed of as nothing.

 

[HDRhineland]

There is much truth in this thread.

Sadly, whenever one has posted criticism about ED in the past, regarding game mechanics, regarding game 'punishment', regarding whatever: Almost every time the 'Why everything should continue to be the way it currently is'-people showed up instantly and ruined the discussion. Even if there were suggestions, it was either 'No, this ruins the true Elite experience!' (Whatever that is, and I have actually played the original Elite...) or 'I don't need it, so ED should not have it!'. Discussion killed (again), congrats. And finally, if there were no arguments left, the universal answer to anything was 'ED is supposed to be that way!'. Oh, come on...

Bottom line: ED is a good start, a good platform to continue developing a huge space game, but [Add issues the game (!) undoubtly has, but are not worth to be mentioned/to be discussed/to be whatever, because, you know, 'everything should be the way...'].

I will come and visit the forums every now and then, I will start ED from time to time, but other than that... fly safe!

 

[Obsidian Ant]

I dunno but the I think there's (vastly simplified of course) two types of ED player, those who can devote a large amount of time to the game and can amass a lot of credits relatively fast. And then there's those who cannot devote a large amount of time to the game and thus amass credits more slowly.

Why do so many people forget the 3rd type of Elite player?? Those that aren't interested in credits, but are instead interested in discovery and the galaxy, flying around civilized space and experiencing the variety of things the Elite world has to offer. Not for the sake of money, but for the sake of doing it itself!! For players like this - an alive dynamic galaxy will improve things so much!

 

[Leper Messiah]

Why do so many people forget the 3rd type of Elite player?? Those that aren't interested in credits, but are instead interested in discovery and the galaxy, flying around civilized space and experiencing the variety of things the Elite world has to offer. Not for the sake of money, but for the sake of doing it itself!! For players like this - an alive dynamic galaxy will improve things so much!

In my defense I stated "vastly simplified" did I not?....so to answer your question, that type will not be so bothered with ship destruction either. Just because some people are not bothered by something, doesn't mean those that ARE bothered should be so routinely slagged off by many on the forums.

 

[Obsidian Ant]

In my defense I stated "vastly simplified" did I not?....so to answer your question, that type will not be so bothered with ship destruction either. Just because some people are not bothered by something, doesn't mean those that ARE bothered should be so routinely slagged off by many on the forums.

I actually agree with your point!

I just wanted to add that, in addition to the lack of sympathy towards those with few credits - there also seems to be a lot of disinterest (from parts of the community and maybe parts of Frontier?) towards players that want a living breathing galaxy that they can simply explore and interact with whilst at the same time remaining outside of the credit chasing loop. In the early proposals there was a lot of content documented for that type of player. So far we haven't seen any of it at all...