Aaaaand this is why I don't play Open Play - and possibly ED

With respect to all posters here, the problem with griefing, ramming, and other behaviour such as "Elite's got Talent" is that they are being played out in Open play which is a global type server open to all and with few if any server rules. This means you subject people to behaviour some may find objectionable. So much different to games such as BF4 where we can select a server to play on. E.g. to play games like your "Elite's got Talent" you would normally do that on a server with permission from an admin. The difference here is you are just making your own play on a global server with no admins present and expecting people to tolerate it. Some may, some may not. Without any effective admin to maintain gaming etiquette players will just do what they want will little regard to others.

What happens if someone won't tolerate non consensual PvP in Open?

If they have sense, they will go join a PvE group like Mobius, which is the correct response and entirely what FD intended when they implemented the different ways to play this game.

I'm having a hard time grasping the issue here.
 
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What happens if someone won't tolerate non consensual PvP in Open?

If they have sense, they will go join a PvE group like Mobius, which is the correct response and entirely what FD intended when the implemented the different ways to play this game.

I'm having a hard time grasping the issue here.

The issue starts when Open PvPers militate for suppression of Group/Solo or want flat bonuses just for being in Open :D
 
With respect to all posters here, the problem with griefing, ramming, and other behaviour such as "Elite's got Talent" is that they are being played out in Open play which is a global type server open to all and with few if any server rules. This means you subject people to behaviour some may find objectionable. So much different to games such as BF4 where we can select a server to play on. E.g. to play games like your "Elite's got Talent" you would normally do that on a server with permission from an admin. The difference here is you are just making your own play on a global server with no admins present and expecting people to tolerate it. Some may, some may not. Without any effective admin to maintain gaming etiquette players will just do what they want will little regard to others.

We have "permission" as what we are doing is in no way a violation of the rules set forth for open play. The flip side of the coin is if players do not wish to be "subjected" to this form of gameplay they have the options available at this disposal to not be "forced" to participate. Getting interdicted by "Elite's Got Talent" is akin to being pirated, the difference is we don't want cargo. If you got pirated and tried to run or refused to dump what the pirate asked for then you'd in all fairness would probably be destroyed. That's completely allowed within the game rules. This is a different and potentially non costly and non violent form of piracy.

The issue starts when Open PvPers militate for suppression of Group/Solo or want flat bonuses just for being in Open :D

See I'm not one of those people. If people want to play Private or solo more power to them. If they knowingly choose open then they are opening themselves up to the gameplay style of everyone else who chose open. If someone attacks me when I'm trading, then that's because I made a conscious decision to trade in open. It's my fault if I try to play in an open environment unprepared. I do quite frequently trade in open, but if I don't feel like dealing with other people's gameplay styles I pop on some tunes and play in solo or a private group where I know what is going on. When I want completely random action I choose open play. The concept really isn't that difficult.
 
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The issue starts when Open PvPers militate for suppression of Group/Solo or want flat bonuses just for being in Open :D

That I don't agree with, all modes should be equal. Can't punish people that don't like non consensual PvP. So far I see not indication from FD that they will do this.

If this did happen, then we'd have to go the PvP flag route.
 
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Elite: Dangerous

Dangerous

See I hate that argument as well. That other upcoming space game doesn't have any threat level indication in its title, yet these kind of interactions will still take place. A name is just a name. This game could by all rights just be called "Elite" and been a full on reboot of the franchise.
 
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One question pops into my mind then : why should it be dangerous for those who do no want to take part in PvP only ?

They never have to. They have the option of playing the game and all of its content without hostile player interaction possibilities. Open simply means an encounter with another player can go any possible direction.
 
There is no "pvp flag" to indicate if a player wishes to engage in combat or not. He was in open, in a combat fit ship with an interdictor, to me that is fair game.

If he's carrying a bounty, he's fair game. If he's running a blockade, you tell him to scram and he doesn't, fair game. If he's a hold full of loot and elects not to proffer you some as you hoist the jolly roger, he's fair game.

If he's just pootling about minding his own business and you decide to kill him, it's griefing. No other word for it. People seem hung up on the idea that if you don't get banned for it it's not griefing. Yes it is. You're running an in-game loss by fighting him. You're only doing it as you enjoy upsetting him.

Now, don't get me wrong, I think anyone in an Anaconda should be able to duke it out or make good their escape and I find it utterly utterly hilarious that he elected not to and got whacked. I said as much and repped you up for making yourself known to the forum, but let's not pretend you opened fire for any other reason than to make someone else a sad panda.
 
Elite: Dangerous

Dangerous

That’s nothing to do with it, it’s just a name. From the rank just before Elite. I agree that it’s an online game in a fairly lawless and aggressive galaxy, and there is nothing wrong with players getting attacked as far as I’m concerned. But I can’t stand this argument. It’s lazy and pointless.
 
They have the option of playing the game and all of its content without hostile player interaction possibilities.

Do you want Open vs Solo debate ? Because that's how you get Open vs Solo debate :D and ants

That’s nothing to do with it, it’s just a name. From the rank just before Elite. I agree that it’s an online game in a fairly lawless and aggressive galaxy, and there is nothing wrong with players getting attacked as far as I’m concerned. But I can’t stand this argument. It’s lazy and pointless.

Wait, isn't Deadly the rank before Elite ?
 
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Firstly I'd edit out the masked swearing before you get an infraction.

It's Wheton's Law: don't be a "Richard".

If you agree player killing is not a reportable offence, then what is your point?

My point is that PKing is griefing. How can it be anything else? It's running at an in-game loss for the sole purpose of making someone else upset.

I'm not whining about it. Did you read my original post? I tipped my hat to the Orca driver for coming out on top of what I considered an hilarious display with the OP, but have got all the player killers* in a tissy by calling a spade a spade.

* Note I'm not going to call you PvPers as you can be as pro PvP as you like (I am, after all. I don't want to go to Mobius. I want to pirate trade routes and be bounty hunted for it) without resorting to simply PKing.
 
If he's carrying a bounty, he's fair game. If he's running a blockade, you tell him to scram and he doesn't, fair game. If he's a hold full of loot and elects not to proffer you some as you hoist the jolly roger, he's fair game.

If he's just pootling about minding his own business and you decide to kill him, it's griefing. No other word for it. People seem hung up on the idea that if you don't get banned for it it's not griefing. Yes it is. You're running an in-game loss by fighting him. You're only doing it as you enjoy upsetting him.

Now, don't get me wrong, I think anyone in an Anaconda should be able to duke it out or make good their escape and I find it utterly utterly hilarious that he elected not to and got whacked. I said as much and repped you up for making yourself known to the forum, but let's not pretend you opened fire for any other reason than to make someone else a sad panda.

Your position is that if there is no material gain then the only reason for attacking another player is to cause them grief?

Well I got news for you. PvP is fun. For both parties if they have the right attitude. Of course it's fun for the guy that initiates the fight, in what he thinks is from a winning position, but it's also fun fighting back, escaping it or plain dodging it entirely.

It adds actual risk to the experience and quite a lot of people enjoy that.

And you want to take this risk and fun away... that makes me a sad panda.
 
Well I got news for you. PvP is fun. For both parties if they have the right attitude.

So now it's the killed commander's fault for not enjoying getting killed enough?

Where's the line drawn? The n00b sidewinder at Eravate? Or didn't he have enough fun either?
 
So now it's the killed commander's fault for not enjoying getting killed enough?

Where's the line drawn? The n00b sidewinder at Eravate? Or didn't he have enough fun either?

Yes, it is the killed commanders fault. He should have played in Group mode or Solo mode if he doesn't want non consensual PvP.

The line is drawn where harassment begins. If a player makes it his mission to stop another player from being able to play the game at all, then FD will step in. Then the label "griefer" can be applied.

edit: I think the problem may be that your Wheaton's law threshold is set far too low.
 
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edit: I think the problem may be that your Wheaton's law threshold is set far too low.

Or conversely yours, and the other PKers, too high?

I wonder which of the two categories people fall into might be distinguishable by age?

Who's up for an over 30s group? You get kicked if you text speak, PK or have heard of any bands in the top 40. :D
 
Or conversely yours, and the other PKers, too high?

I wonder which of the two categories people fall into might be distinguishable by age?

Who's up for an over 30s group? You get kicked if you text speak, PK or have heard of any bands in the top 40. :D

I'm not far from 40 myself :D

Also, to show you what I'm talking about, here's a link to a thread I posted back in January. It describes one of my favourite moments in this game so far, and it couldn't have happened without Open in it's current form.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=97257

edit: Also, I'm not currently a PKer.
 
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If he's carrying a bounty, he's fair game. If he's running a blockade, you tell him to scram and he doesn't, fair game. If he's a hold full of loot and elects not to proffer you some as you hoist the jolly roger, he's fair game.

If he's just pootling about minding his own business and you decide to kill him, it's griefing. No other word for it. People seem hung up on the idea that if you don't get banned for it it's not griefing. Yes it is. You're running an in-game loss by fighting him. You're only doing it as you enjoy upsetting him.

Now, don't get me wrong, I think anyone in an Anaconda should be able to duke it out or make good their escape and I find it utterly utterly hilarious that he elected not to and got whacked. I said as much and repped you up for making yourself known to the forum, but let's not pretend you opened fire for any other reason than to make someone else a sad panda.

I'm not trying to spur an argument with you but I am trying to be realistic here. I don't grief, I look for fights, and most of the time I intentionally punch above my weight class (metaphorically speaking as that Orca is just a big fat heavy cow). In any real world scenario, by all rights I should have been slaughtered in that engagement or forced to run. I was looking for a fight, not tears. I was satisfied with the fight, the tears were an added bonus after the fact. Normally when I'm out for antics or doing something for the sake of being a I'm usually talking about it on comms or laughing about it. My setup gives me away, it records my microphone input automatically (as you can hear the cracking of my ecig during the fight). I was very much tense and in the zone during that because I was I was winning a fight I shouldn't have been. What didn't get recorded on the DVR was the huge sigh of relief after SCing out of the last engagement zone, followed by me telling my buddies on comms "Holy crap you'll never believe what I just pulled off". I was genuinely stoked until I got to the station and met with all the salty insults from the esteemed conda pilot. After docking and repairing I was going to give him a "GF" but he took the initiative with being a dbag. If you've seen the video, there is another one on the same youtube channel called "The Great White" which shows some of the other prey I've gone after, had a similar engagement with a conda that combat logged, a Vulture that I squished in one pass (and later after talking to the pilot fought one v one with and lost) and a Python that got annihilated after he interdicted ME. My normal activities include going after viable combat ships with viable combat ships. I am about hands down the single worst pirate in ED history. Hell sometimes I interdict people, ask them to tell me I'm pretty, then let them go.

I steer clear of the starter areas, the last time i was out there I was in a Cobra, interdicted an eagle, and had about a ten minute fight with this guy that I won at 6% hull (rail eagles are brutal). He's now a friend and we do lots of absurd ops like Deathwinder squads, or combat type 6 interdicting wanted pythons. I really take offense to being flat out called a griefer. I'm out there looking for people to play with, yes it's at gunpoint but their attitude about it makes ALL the difference in the world.

Or conversely yours, and the other PKers, too high?

I wonder which of the two categories people fall into might be distinguishable by age?

Who's up for an over 30s group? You get kicked if you text speak, PK or have heard of any bands in the top 40. :D

Also I'd be down for that group. I'm 32 myself and have no idea what the current bands even are!
 
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I'm not trying to spur an argument with you but I am trying to be realistic here. I don't grief
<snippity>

I've had a read of what you've said and you're winning me over a little it has to be said.

I take back the initial line about you were being out to grief him until it turned into Beadle's About as I think you're right. If you're hitting up a weight class as a matter of course then the other fella's always got the option to bug out. So fair play, I'm sorry about that.

That's not to say I don't still think PKing is -- for the most part (I'll put that in there, go-on then) -- griefing, but I'll give you this one as I like the cut of your jib. Bravo zulu.
 
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