Exploration payout needs to be adjusted

[Greyhawk]

Saying exploring is no risk is completely untrue.

Saying exploring is less risk is (IMO) true. Y

However you stand to lose one hell of a lot if you don't make it back. With all the other professions you make more and can cash in at any time. When you are several thousand kylies out and have just "Tired-Jumped" into a black hole with no heat sinks left you are in a potential scenario of losing not only several weeks or months worth of money but all the first discos you may have scanned. The potential for loss is massively higher although the potential for death is lower than other money making ways.



You don't lose any of that with any other profession.

 

[TruffleSnout]

Well then let's bring down the profits of other professions to the level of exploration.

I don't understand the need to balance the professions? A computer programmer makes more than a fast food bus boy. Some professions just make more money. I'm content with the way it is.

If they decide to add way more risk - gamma ray bursts, protoplanetary disks, coronal mass ejections, rogue asteroids and comets, then yeah. Bump up the pay scale.

 

[Glenn Ross]

When trading in my Asp, I can have a hold of cargo worth around 600K. Insurance buy-back is around 1 Mil. I can make around 200K in a 10 minute round trip. This means I can cover my losses in under an hour and a half. Exploration in the same Asp and I have no cargo to lose, insurance buy-back is more like 500K. The problem is that I don't make any money until I get back and sell the data. I can spend days doing a 'fast' run to Sag A* and back. I can spend months circumnavigating the galaxy, and I get Nada. Zip. Nothing. Unless I make it back safely. I get interdicted on my way into a station [or rammed as I try and dock] as a trader, and I lose no more than an hour and a half's worth of game time. Same thing happens as an explorer, I can lose MONTHS of game time and lots of prestige of having "First discovered by" in my commander's name go up in smoke.
.
And if you are a combat pilot [BH, pirate, etc.] then the risk is absolutely negligable. You are, after all, in a ship that ought to be able to look after itself, with a skill set that should be of use in that sort of situation. Traders and explorers are rarely - if ever - optimised for combat. So exploration certainly has risks. Mostly on returning to 'civilised' space to actually gain anything from your efforts and time. Other professions have a much more immediate 'gratification' in this regard, but that does not mean that exploration has lower risk.

 

[Archvillain]

Correct. Exploring simply pays much less than trading or bounty hunting.

Not quite, exploring pays more than trading and bounty hunting. It's only after you can afford some more expensive combat/trading ships and load-outs (perhaps using money earned exploring) that those other things start paying more, which is a great mechanic to encourage players to try a bit of everything throughout their game.

Most of us have been playing for a while, so we're accustomed to a mid-to-high-end exploring ship not paying on par with an equivalently high-end trading ship or combat ship. It's easy to forget that at the low end, the numbers are very different.

 

[TruffleSnout]

all the first discos you may have scanned.

This is indeed an issue. In fact, I'd go so far as to call it a bug. If I die in the black, I can't sell the data after the insurance screen, because presumably "the data stays with the ship". But if that's the case, then why do I still see the systems I scanned in my Galaxy Map?

 

[Yomamas Fett]

You know people who go Exploring 20K Ly out are making a choice, it's not inherent to Explorers to take "months" of work in long distance trips.

I've made it to Ranger, and have never left Human space, I trade-in the data when it's over 500Ks(1M is ideal) worth for the rep, DSS'd 6000 planets so far, and have made it round about half of human space by my estimate (It's probably a lot less).

I combine this with rare trading and just economically travel zig-zagging from 1 point to another, I've found hundreds of pirate bases and been attacked by Pythons, 'Condas and entire Wings desperate to prevent the intel getting out to the authorities. If I get bored of scanning I do a little Bounty work or a couple of missions for factions, even independants that I like. Sure I could make x4-x6 creds/hour grinding some trade route, but that would bore me silly.

No ones asking you to spend months avoiding other players and NPC combats to make rank in Exploration, that's a choice.

 

[withnail]

From my perspective exploration is fun whilst trading is totally boring.

I suspect I will never progress my rank in trading.

However, I do think you are more likely to encounter problems in combat or trading, so maybe these professions should have a higher payout.

My general feeling (being an original Elite player used to grinding for the Elite rank) is that credits are too easy to come by.

FWIW I just completed a 6 week exploration journey (about 6 - 8 hours a week because of job and kids) and netted 40 million.

Now I have a fully kitted vulture and an spending time at RES sites. It's good to get a break from exploration!

 

[matemaster]

I think that in 1.3 exploration will be viable credit maker with the 200% bonus from power

 

[NeoTron]

Its not about the money. Exploring is its own reward. If you don't like it don't do it.

- - - Updated - - -

Why? Its true.

Admittedly you're more likely to die trading, RES hunting or basically any other activity. However as an explorer, you're potentially weeks away from civilization and can sit with 50-100 millions worth of income gained over weeks or months of play. No other profession has THAT amount of risk of complete loss. I returned to sell 50.8 million after 2.5 weeks (well over 100 hrs played). Had I crashed or killed by an NPC (unlikely as I was in an Anaconda, but still), it'd been all lost.

If I die BHing I lose 2-5 millions earned over an hour or two. Trading you only lose the cargo which is also pretty small.

That's why exploration is risky. It's not that you have a lot of risk per hour, but the potential loss is huge. It's rare but if it happened to me at the end of my trip - well not sure what I would have done.

I did have some close calls with binaries, scariest being a sun orbiting really close to a neutron star (primary of the system fortunately, other way around would have been worse). Returned with 99% hull and 98% power supply.

Most explorer deaths seems to be from people not throttling down on jump, something I knew to do before I even headed out.

 

[Grecian]

You know people who go Exploring 20K Ly out are making a choice, it's not inherent to Explorers to take "months" of work in long distance trips.

I've made it to Ranger, and have never left Human space, I trade-in the data when it's over 500Ks(1M is ideal) worth for the rep, DSS'd 6000 planets so far, and have made it round about half of human space by my estimate (It's probably a lot less).

I combine this with rare trading and just economically travel zig-zagging from 1 point to another, I've found hundreds of pirate bases and been attacked by Pythons, 'Condas and entire Wings desperate to prevent the intel getting out to the authorities. If I get bored of scanning I do a little Bounty work or a couple of missions for factions, even independants that I like. Sure I could make x4-x6 creds/hour grinding some trade route, but that would bore me silly.

No ones asking you to spend months avoiding other players and NPC combats to make rank in Exploration, that's a choice.

what ship are you using for all this mate?

 

[NeoTron]

I think that in 1.3 exploration will be viable credit maker with the 200% bonus from power

You know this only applies for the top 10 people right and that you lose rank weekly? So you'd have to either grind to top 10, and then go exploring and return to sell within a week, or you'd have to go exploring, then grind (risking total loss) and then turn in.

 

[Togg]

We actually get PAID for exploration ?!?!?!?!?!

just kidding... i explore for the fun of it... am currently 17k ish Lys from Sol and still outbound... i'll be back in a month or two... maybe 3...hmmmm, i may come back eventually.

 

[Ben_BigBen]

Even Neutron farming with First Discovered bonuses you'll be lucky to get 2.5M CR/h (not including travel time to the fields and back) but I'd still rather have the variety of exploring than trade grinding the same route for hours on end. Just come back from my first big trip and put 71 million CR in the bank and hit Pioneer. Yes, I could have traded my way to that in the game time spent travelling to SagA* but I'd be even more space-insane than I am now

 

[Whiterose]

The pay for exploration is fine. As has been said we dont do it for the money. As for risk, yes, it is low risk, there are dangers, but only due to lack of concentration. I have been out for 46 days, and lack of concentration and complacency is always the biggest factor in losing days of data. As explorers we would like more to see and have more dangers out there, however, if you start increasing the risk, then the pay should go up as well.
Also as NeoTron has stated the 200% is only for the top ten, and as you lose rank after a week this will severely limit your time out if this is the route you chose.

 

[Krait_79]

so 3 days ago i outfitted an asp and went exploring - VY Canis Majoris, Betelgeuse, some Nebulae and i enjoyed exploring.

I was not far out - like 2k ly from civilised space for 3 days ~ 18 hours of scanning and hopping and scanning and hopping, i scanned like 500 objects with detailed service scanner and adv. D-Scanner.

got some first discoveries - which was pretty nice. what was devastating was the $$$ payment after handing in the data:

4.5 million credits for 18ish hours IS BAD
i can make this amount in 2 hours of RES farming or trading

so please FDEV tweak the numbers before 1.3 goes live

and dont come with the power which buffs these numbers

what do you guys think?

They payout should reflect the risk not just the time spent doing something!

 

[Winterwalker]

Personally I'm starting to think that Exploration actually pays a little too much. I mean, let's face it, other than the odd contact binary (VERY RARE) and psycho at Sag A* (VERY VERY RARE) there is like zero risk in exploration. I'm on my 4th Exploration trip, and each of the previous trips (with the exception of the first one) I came back and made enough to purchase a new nearly a-spec ship (Cobra>Asp>Vulture).

But then, I'm not counting hours, either. So I honestly don't know how many hours I've spent exploring. All I know is I explore until I'm ready to do something else, and when I come back in after that I have a fat stack of cash.

Exploration is fairly low risk, yes .. however, unlike bounty / trading the pay isn't scaleable (ok you might be able to reach unexplored space more quickly with a greater jump range, but in pure discoveries per hour, a sidewinder is on par with any other ship, a good thing)

I think the pay feels about right. If you're in a sidewinder it's the best money you can get, maybe to find credits to upgrade to a more useful trading ship, to get going. With an expensive and specialist exploration ship later, chances are by then you're not exploring for the money, just as well because at that point the pay drops relative to maintenance costs. Another good thing imo.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Meh, i was exploring from before the 1.2 payout increase and happy doing it. The doubling of the payout was nice, but not really necessary.

 

[CMDR Valvrave]

They payout should reflect the risk not just the time spent doing something!

tell me what is your risk in other professions?

 

[CMDR DoubleSkulls]

I think that in 1.3 exploration will be viable credit maker with the 200% bonus from power

As others have pointed out this looks like it could be practically unusable. Its a top tier reward, so don't you need to really grind to get there? And once you've got there it only lasts a week? Any moderately serious exploring takes time. From what I've read what this would basically mean is that you'd need to grind to get a high ranking, then go exploring, and grind again to get the top ranking, then sell your data. If you die whilst grinding you lose all the data. That doesn't sound great to me.

A faction that paid out more for exploration data, gave credit for exploration data and/or had equipment to help explorers (e.g. faster scanners) would be much more helpful.

 

[trollson]

Shipping Tycoons are Rich.
Explorers are Poor (relatively speaking).

Not all gains are financial.