Hardware & Technical Computer Build to run Elite Dangerous
- Thread starter Pazmeister
- Start date
Ooh, pet hate of mine - seeing screens at a non-native resolution!
Oh that's not the issue - the issue is that he's running a TV not a monitor - so 1080p is it's native res. He's effectively watching a 40" TV with it positioned about 3 feet away from his face and the pixelation is painful. This is my point - Plasmas may have great depth of blacks and great refresh rates but it's like a retrograde because the pixel pitch is so much greater.
Personally, I use CCL Computers, who are a very professional outfit with a massive range to choose from & have some of the best prices in the country. As luck would have it they are only 40 minutes drive from me, too.
Brilliant and thanks to the other guys for chiming in as well. Still a long way off getting enough money together to buy a new rig. Nearly spent some getting the premium Beta, but seems little point now when I don't have a rig sufficient to run it. Gonna try seeing if I can put some art up on a website and see if I can't sell some commissions to raise money for the rig. Knowing who to go to afterwards is the next important thing.
Thanks guys
Ab
Well. While configuring a system there are calculators available (a good one).
For measuring actual real life power consumption in a system you would need a specialized device, like kill-a-watt. There are also systems that can be used to load test PSUs, but AFAIK those are expensive stuff, not really needed for home user
Perfect...
However remember all.... a Cheap 600W PSU is nowhere near as good as a descent branded 460W.
I've seen first hand evidence from a mate who had a £40 650W and his new GFX card was stuttering in game. He bought a £110 descent brand 500W PSU and had no problems.
Agreed
When it comes to PSUs, don't scrimp. Having a good solid and clean power delivery is mighty important when it comes to a gaming rig (or any decent PC for that matter). I also tend to gun for a modular PSU as it means I don't have random unused wires interfering with airflow... kinda important when it hits 40C ambient here haha.
Quick question for those in the know, I know a lot of people are saying Intel are way ahead of AMD, but I've got a lot of good mileage out of my AMD computer for the last 6 years or so. And more importantly an AMD rig, is cheaper than the equivilent Intel. Given that apart from using photoshop, doing digital drawing and painting and games like Elite Dangerous, is there a reason I really need Intel over AMD? I as because although cheaper, in some respects, the way I've read recent bits, seem to suggest AMD have really fallen behind and their chips are not doing so well.
Given that Elite D, isn't a high end demanding graphics game, would an AMD chip be a bottle neck or not?
Thanks for your help from those in the know ;-)
Ab
PS Happy Christmas to all, hope you get to enjoy it. I'll be working in the morning having a great time at my Church, but hope you get to enjoy time with family or and friends away from the PC not just in front of it ;-)
Given that Elite D, isn't a high end demanding graphics game, would an AMD chip be a bottle neck or not?
Thanks for your help from those in the know ;-)
Ab
PS Happy Christmas to all, hope you get to enjoy it. I'll be working in the morning having a great time at my Church, but hope you get to enjoy time with family or and friends away from the PC not just in front of it ;-)
I haven't built an AMD based rig for a while, mostly because Intel is where the best performance has been, but from what I've read, some of the AMD chips (not sure which ones, but I'm sure a search will tell you) are better at running multi-threaded apps, & as ED is multi-threaded, it may well be that a carefully chosen AMD chip would run the game well & give you more bang for your bucks.
The downside is that an AMD rig built *now* might have less longevity or resale value in the future.
The downside is that an AMD rig built *now* might have less longevity or resale value in the future.
If you're looking at cheap but good PSUs http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/power-supply-review-80-plus-bronze,3587.html
Squicker
S
Happy Christmas.
Architecturally Intel could be said to be ahead of AMD but crucially is different in approach. AMD have reduced cost by making some components in the CPU shared. The cache, FPU and the memory bus are shared, this introduces some issues with scheduling of threads and this is evidenced by some games performing better when you turn off half the cores, which you can mostly do in the BIOS. A guy recently on the Rift forum was having dog slow AMD performance and I suggested he turn some of the cores off and he was sorted, afterwards I read this is a common AMD fix for *some* games. If you look at this picture you may see the problem: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:AMD_Bulldozer_block_diagram_(8_core_CPU).PNG
AMD has two cores that make up a module (and multiple modules in each CPU). And this pair of execution units share front end services such as the bus, floating point and cache. Being as a cache item and index can only be written to by one component there can be contention for cache writing when using all cores, also the bus and floating point unit could be contended. This is clearly one reason why the actual 'cores' do not scale up as well as Intel's architecture - the two internal cores in each module can conflict each other for near-line resources.
This is further exacerbated by the way Windows Executive schedules threads on core. However, MS have released a scheduler patch for AMDs which recognises this CPU design weakness, but people do still find overall AMD performance is down on Intel (for some people this fix does nothing, depending on app architecture), because Intel do NOT share important CPU resources and you therefore will not experience this contention, but you will pay more money simply because there are more on-chip components.
AMD's strategy is to scale out where Intel's is to scale up, so looking to the future, as games become more heavily multi-threaded, AMD might start to see an advantage with their architecture, and it is said that ED is highly multithreaded. But it may be the shared FPU eliminates any gains here if being used heavily. We shall not know until beta.
Regardless, I personally prefer Intel's more pure approach where important resources in the CPU are not shared.
Architecturally Intel could be said to be ahead of AMD but crucially is different in approach. AMD have reduced cost by making some components in the CPU shared. The cache, FPU and the memory bus are shared, this introduces some issues with scheduling of threads and this is evidenced by some games performing better when you turn off half the cores, which you can mostly do in the BIOS. A guy recently on the Rift forum was having dog slow AMD performance and I suggested he turn some of the cores off and he was sorted, afterwards I read this is a common AMD fix for *some* games. If you look at this picture you may see the problem: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:AMD_Bulldozer_block_diagram_(8_core_CPU).PNG
AMD has two cores that make up a module (and multiple modules in each CPU). And this pair of execution units share front end services such as the bus, floating point and cache. Being as a cache item and index can only be written to by one component there can be contention for cache writing when using all cores, also the bus and floating point unit could be contended. This is clearly one reason why the actual 'cores' do not scale up as well as Intel's architecture - the two internal cores in each module can conflict each other for near-line resources.
This is further exacerbated by the way Windows Executive schedules threads on core. However, MS have released a scheduler patch for AMDs which recognises this CPU design weakness, but people do still find overall AMD performance is down on Intel (for some people this fix does nothing, depending on app architecture), because Intel do NOT share important CPU resources and you therefore will not experience this contention, but you will pay more money simply because there are more on-chip components.
AMD's strategy is to scale out where Intel's is to scale up, so looking to the future, as games become more heavily multi-threaded, AMD might start to see an advantage with their architecture, and it is said that ED is highly multithreaded. But it may be the shared FPU eliminates any gains here if being used heavily. We shall not know until beta.
Regardless, I personally prefer Intel's more pure approach where important resources in the CPU are not shared.
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My kaput Eizo ColourEdge could display shadow detail and shades that my AOC IPS panel monitor cannot. It's easily evident in areas of shadow detail and they are both LCD screens. The Eizo was about 5 times more cost for the same screen size. There is nothing non-sensical about it. Have you ever heard of blocked shadows in digital photography? The same thing happens with displays. Some displays can show detail in shadows where other cannot. Plasma due not requiring back/edge-lighting which helps plasma displays with regard to blacks levels. Why are black levels (coupled with native contrast ratio) because they depth to picture.
If you really interested in learning about displays http://lcdtvbuyingguide.com/lcdtv-plasmavslcd.shtml
http://lcdtvbuyingguide.com/hdtv/black-level.html
In that webpage he state 'Over powering black levels can remove detail from dark scenes and reduce overall picture quality.' what he means the LCD screens have local dimming (turning down the back-light) to create a dark black but in this process they also block out the shadow details.
Pixel pitch depends on how close you want to get to the display a bit like resolution. I'm sitting 3 foot away so I don't see it on my 50 inch vt20 when I'm using it for gaming. Elite being a space game and space being shades of blacks/greys predominantly, blacks levels are important for ED. Plasma displays were always used for bigger sizes hence the pitch is going to be bigger. LCD topped out at 40 inches a couple years back while plasma was at 60 inches+. If squeeze 1080 into 50 inch screen then 1080 into a 36 inch screen; the 36 inch screen will have a lower pixel pitch because the screen is smaller.
DB has implemented a FOV adjustment to allow big displays to display as suitable FOV so it doesn't look like the view has been magnified for the short-sighted...
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Ah I understand what you're saying now. I see your point, but luckily the majority of games developers also see your point and the limitations of the technology that they're working with. For this reason they now very often provide ingame 'tuning' images that they use to demonstrate to what level of 'black/grey' they're going to be generating with the in game engine.
i.e. please adjust the game brightness until you can only just see this logo against the black background.
Using this they effectively negate the problems and limitations introduced by LCD technology. I mean no disrespect saying this but I think you may be slightly overstating the advantages of a plasma over a decent IPS monitor. You are right, there is an advantage but it's one that only an enthusiast would pursue and I think you have to ask why is it that computer monitor developers have largely opted for LCD technology over Plasma going forward. From my limited understanding I believe that a fair amount of it is down to restrictions on pixel density and also something to do with pixel dithering that makes them a bit hard to work with up close like an LCD Monitor.
For ED specifically - from what I've seen in the Alpha, there aren't a lot of true blacks being generated by the engine. Even space itself seems to have an ambient 'dust' luminescence.
i.e. please adjust the game brightness until you can only just see this logo against the black background.
Using this they effectively negate the problems and limitations introduced by LCD technology. I mean no disrespect saying this but I think you may be slightly overstating the advantages of a plasma over a decent IPS monitor. You are right, there is an advantage but it's one that only an enthusiast would pursue and I think you have to ask why is it that computer monitor developers have largely opted for LCD technology over Plasma going forward. From my limited understanding I believe that a fair amount of it is down to restrictions on pixel density and also something to do with pixel dithering that makes them a bit hard to work with up close like an LCD Monitor.
For ED specifically - from what I've seen in the Alpha, there aren't a lot of true blacks being generated by the engine. Even space itself seems to have an ambient 'dust' luminescence.
When to order?
Option a) wait for potential price cuts in early January and risk not having built it in time for the Beta
Option b) buy it now, possibly pay slightly more, build it once NYD hangover has receded
Thoughts, people?
Option a) wait for potential price cuts in early January and risk not having built it in time for the Beta
Option b) buy it now, possibly pay slightly more, build it once NYD hangover has receded
Thoughts, people?
The main parts of a computer, CPU, mainboard, & GPU are generational, & their prices tend to remain fairly stable until the next generation arrives, then the previous generation prices tend to fall, which basically means you can buy the latest hardware at high prices, or 'old' hardware for less.
Naturally, it's in the hardware manufacturer's interest to be secretive about when the new stuff will arrive or folks will simply wait for the new hardware, which messes up their sales & cash flow. (which they hate)
Hence, there's no 'right' time to buy. The best you can do is to see what's on offer & decide whether it's price/performance suits your needs & budget.
If you get upset/depressed/angst-ridden when you buy something that's superseded by a new model the week after, then computers are not for you. Consider taking up gardening or something.
Worth noting that EVGA operate a Step-Up program for valid parts - do other companies offer similar?
Monitors
What are people's opinions on the relative merits of IPS vs TN?
Should I be more focussed on a 120Hz refresh rate for ED, or the depth of blacks offered by IPS?
What are people's opinions on the relative merits of IPS vs TN?
Should I be more focussed on a 120Hz refresh rate for ED, or the depth of blacks offered by IPS?
Hmm.
So after the great waterspill treagedy of 2013, I have a used vid card and am wondering if it will run Elite Dangerous. Its a Nvidia GT 520 1 gig card.
Apparently its on the low end of the vid card spectrum, being comparableto most 512 cards, but I have no idea. Can't test it until I get my mobo and cpu. Anybody have any ideas? Should I save for a new card? (which could be a while since I'm still saving for that darned MOBO.)
So after the great waterspill treagedy of 2013, I have a used vid card and am wondering if it will run Elite Dangerous. Its a Nvidia GT 520 1 gig card.
Apparently its on the low end of the vid card spectrum, being comparableto most 512 cards, but I have no idea. Can't test it until I get my mobo and cpu. Anybody have any ideas? Should I save for a new card? (which could be a while since I'm still saving for that darned MOBO.)
Thanks for this Squicker, it looks like we agree, intel is the way to go. Not just for games, but for my work as a digital artist and photographer as well.
And Happy Christmas to you also ;-)
Ab
The main parts of a computer, CPU, mainboard, & GPU are generational, & their prices tend to remain fairly stable until the next generation arrives, then the previous generation prices tend to fall, which basically means you can buy the latest hardware at high prices, or 'old' hardware for less.
Naturally, it's in the hardware manufacturer's interest to be secretive about when the new stuff will arrive or folks will simply wait for the new hardware, which messes up their sales & cash flow. (which they hate)
Hence, there's no 'right' time to buy. The best you can do is to see what's on offer & decide whether it's price/performance suits your needs & budget.
If you get upset/depressed/angst-ridden when you buy something that's superseded by a new model the week after, then computers are not for you. Consider taking up gardening or something.
You are right about the generational pricing, although it is an approximation (it is a bit related to price competition phases). In September I was posting it was a bad time to buy a GPU, specifically in the high end. October brought a £100 drop in GPUs, due to the introduction of the next line of AMD products. Interestingly, prices have risen significantly afterwards, but have normalized a bit since (due to "litecoining".
AFAIK there is nothing similar on the near horizon, the only new thing being the introduction of Kaveri (next generation of AMD CPUs), but I dont expect much change due to that. Otherwise the price evolution should be quite linear until June, which doesn't mean there aren't specific opportunities meanwhile, namely some new year promotion (that depends on the market...). Where I expect more significant price drops are in SSDs - namely PCIe based ones - and *maybe* DDR3 2133+. But I can be completely off (If I could guess the future, I'd be a rich person, eventually a miserable rich person
).
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You are right about the generational pricing, although it is an approximation (it is a bit related to price competition phases). In September I was posting it was a bad time to buy a GPU, specifically in the high end. October brought a £100 drop in GPUs, due to the introduction of the next line of AMD products. Interestingly, prices have risen significantly afterwards, but have normalized a bit since (due to "litecoining".
AFAIK there is nothing similar on the near horizon, the only new thing being the introduction of Kaveri (next generation of AMD CPUs), but I dont expect much change due to that. Otherwise the price evolution should be quite linear until June, which doesn't mean there aren't specific opportunities meanwhile, namely some new year promotion (that depends on the market...). Where I expect more significant price drops are in SSDs - namely PCIe based ones - and *maybe* DDR3 2133+. But I can be completely off (If I could guess the future, I'd be a rich person, eventually a miserable rich person
Absolutely right, Pyros, and I'm sure you understand that I had to generalise because no-one really knows when or if any given manufacturer is going to throw a spanner in the works by going on a sales drive & offering attractive deals on selected items, or when a large retailer might decide to rid itself of certain product lines by reducing their price. The best anyone can do is watch the trends that occur & keep an eye open for a bargain. Thankfully, they do sometimes happen.