Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].

[cryon1cang3l]

U r mistaken..its a game with 3 EQUAL modes that ppl can CHOOSE to play

The modes are not equal at all, there is the small difference. Open is a populated mode with other people who want something from you - and some want your best, your money. Solo & Private > you have no enemies there.
And the open mode needs a lot of people to create the action, that many pvp-oriented people want and expect there. By moving into solo you ruin our multiplayer expirience because we cant interact with you. We cant stop you from doing something, cant kill you to set you back a couple of hours, we cant pirate you. And this is why i and many other people leaving or are already gone. Right now i paused after 700+ hours. I have enough ingame money to have some decent action, but not enough people around me willig to fight and create the adrenaline rush for all of us. Just because some people think that this is not an MMO.

 

[Cowboy Bats]

this IS a MMO with an optional solo & group mode.

No, it is not. It is a multi-mode game. You couldn't bribe me to play an MMO.

And for this game to be successful, Frontier will need money. Not only what they got in the first place from kickstarter and early sales, they will need money every day - this is how MMOs work, the cost to run the server cluster and the cost of constant developtment are pretty high.

Frontier's plan all along has been to sell DLC and expansions. I've already invested in the game, bought skins, and unless solo gets royally screwed, I'll be buying the expansions as well. There is no server cluster, hence the p2p nature of the game. Bandwidth to Frontier is beyond minimal, it's barely there. I know I've checked. When DB said you could run it in solo tethered to a 2G phone, he wasn't kidding.

And yes, you are my content and i`m your content ingame, we create the expirience together.

No, no, I am not. We'll never play together, because I do not play online games, and when I did, it was the PVE servers for WoW only. Don't think for a moment that there is anything that you, Frontier, or a god from your pantheon of choice can do to change that. I am NOT your content and I NEVER will be. That truly may as well be written in stone.

 

[fademist]

The modes are not equal at all, there is the small difference. Open is a populated mode with other people who want something from you - and some want your best, your money. Solo & Private > you have no enemies there.
And the open mode needs a lot of people to create the action, that many pvp-oriented people want and expect there. By moving into solo you ruin our multiplayer expirience because we cant interact with you. We cant stop you from doing something, cant kill you to set you back a couple of hours, we cant pirate you. And this is why i and many other people leaving or are already gone. Right now i paused after 700+ hours. I have enough ingame money to have some decent action, but not enough people around me willig to fight and create the adrenaline rush for all of us. Just because some people think that this is not an MMO.

so cause u want adrenaline rush all the ppl need to be forced to want the same...and prolly will be good to read the ks and devs potition about that at page 1 ....

 

[Faded Glory]

Yeah fine. But think about it from a different angle: this IS a MMO with an optional solo & group mode. And for this game to be successful, Frontier will need money. Not only what they got in the first place from kickstarter and early sales, they will need money every day - this is how MMOs work, the cost to run the server cluster and the cost of constant developtment are pretty high.

But as a PvPler you would think different. You NEED people to play with, this is why its called player vs player. And yes, you are my content and i`m your content ingame, we create the expirience together. If you refuse to join and many other people too (this is what we see right now), the MMO aspect will die completly.

Technically, it's a space trade / combat simulator with optional MMO mode. The official stance, and I don't know that it's changed was that PvP would be 'rare and meaningful', so you are labelling it as officially an MMO, not FD.

You are correct, that for 'hardcore' PvP'ers this may be unworkable, especially as not enough people are playing it as an MMO, but we don't know whether the game will die if the hardcore PvP crowd leave, only FD know those numbers, and the fact that they continue to support all three modes as equal (i.e. none of them more optional than others) would suggest that the jury is still out on that.

We actually understand that you, as someone who wants PvP interaction, wishes that more people would come into Open to either be your content, or to have you as their content, but if players are not doing it voluntarily, why do you think that forcing them will work. They'll just find something else to do if it isn't fun for them, and stating the obvious, they'd already be there with you if it were fun for them.

FD are trying to keep everyone happy. For the most part that are doing that by having all the modes available all the time. If many people are 'refusing' to come and play with you, then you may want to start looking at why that is, and I'm quite sure it's nothing to do with perceived difficulty levels or in game rewards.

 

[Bomba Luigi]

The modes are not equal at all, there is the small difference. Open is a populated mode with other people who want something from you - and some want your best, your money. Solo & Private > you have no enemies there.
And the open mode needs a lot of people to create the action, that many pvp-oriented people want and expect there. By moving into solo you ruin our multiplayer expirience because we cant interact with you. We cant stop you from doing something, cant kill you to set you back a couple of hours, we cant pirate you. And this is why i and many other people leaving or are already gone. Right now i paused after 700+ hours. I have enough ingame money to have some decent action, but not enough people around me willig to fight and create the adrenaline rush for all of us. Just because some people think that this is not an MMO.

so because you have a lot of Ingame Money that should give you the right to tell me what I can do or not?

And well, if this is an mmo or not does not even matter, because there is nowehere any ruleset that something that is an MMO has to have forced PvP on everybody, or even PvP at all. There is even a MMO called Wander coming out that has no combat at all and its still an MMO.

 

[Lestenio]

By moving into solo you ruin our multiplayer expirience because we cant interact with you. We cant stop you from doing something, cant kill you to set you back a couple of hours, we cant pirate you. And this is why i and many other people leaving or are already gone. Right now i paused after 700+ hours. I have enough ingame money to have some decent action, but not enough people around me willig to fight and create the adrenaline rush for all of us. Just because some people think that this is not an MMO.

So, what you are saying is after spending £35 on a game I enjoy (forget the £1k pc and dk2 I bought specifically for ED), I now have to give up enjoying the game just so you can enjoy it more.

 

[cryon1cang3l]

so because you have a lot of Ingame Money that should give you the right to tell me what I can do or not?

And well, if this is an mmo or not does not even matter, because there is nowehere any ruleset that something that is an MMO has to have forced PvP on everybody, or even PvP at all. There is even a MMO called Wander coming out that has no combat at all and its still an MMO.

But Elite was designed with PvP interaction in mind. This is the reason why i have this game and why i payed the full price. Right now after the hardest grind i have my pvp setup but nothing to shoot at.
Like i said, for PvP we actually need a big playerbase that is willig to fight. Because PvP against someone who cant fight back or doesnt want it, is not fun.
Instead of forcing people into solo or PvE groups, FD should focus more on the open and make PvP in space attractive and rewarding, but also risky.

P.S. no, i just said that we need more people playing open and actually enjoy the pvp interaction. And that the game will lose a big piece of the player base if nothing happens. Specially people who are already pretty far, have all ships they want and saw everything - they need something to do. And competetive PvP is a good way to keep people coming back.

 

[Asp Explorer]

That's a big part of it though - far too many people think PvP = pew-pew, and many people can't be bothered with the mindless pew-pew crew because they feel it brings nothing to their game.

 

[Robert Maynard]

But Elite was designed with PvP interaction in mind. This is the reason why i have this game and why i payed the full price. Right now after the hardest grind i have my pvp setup but nothing to shoot at.
Like i said, for PvP we actually need a big playerbase that is willig to fight. Because PvP against someone who cant fight back or doesnt want it, is not fun.
Instead of forcing people into solo or PvE groups, FD should focus more on the open and make PvP in space attractive and rewarding, but also risky.

If you read the advertising, the game has been designed to allow players to play alone, with friends or with other players (Solo; Private Group; Open). It's not just a PvP game.

Frontier are not forcing players into any mode - that's the point - we all have the freedom to select which game mode we want to play in on a session-by-session basis. If Open lacks PvP players then that's simply down to player choice (or the quality of one's network connection, possibly).

If PvP players want to increase their chances of meeting likeminded players then I would suggest affiliating to adjacent Powers and trying to take over next door's territory....

 

[Bomba Luigi]

But Elite was designed with PvP interaction in mind. This is the reason why i have this game and why i payed the full price. Right now after the hardest grind i have my pvp setup but nothing to shoot at.
Like i said, for PvP we actually need a big playerbase that is willig to fight. Because PvP against someone who cant fight back or doesnt want it, is not fun.
Instead of forcing people into solo or PvE groups, FD should focus more on the open and make PvP in space attractive and rewarding, but also risky.

Yes, this Game is designed to have PvP, but its no design to be just about PvP. And I hope Jockey comes in with his usual post (or you can just read it on the first Page) because there you can read something about what kind of Game they wanted to design - one where every player has the choice if he wants to do PvP or not.

This is a main, central part of the desing of the whole Game - Giving players the choice to play how they want. You may not like it that others people don't have to do what you want them to do but all in all thats a pretty nice thing. I mean really, don't wanna sound harsh, but you are not my King or anything like that.

 

[Faded Glory]

But Elite was designed with PvP interaction in mind.

Sorry? Designed with PvP in mind? "PvP will be rare and meaningful". That was David Braben.

This is the reason why i have this game and why i payed the full price. Right now after the hardest grind i have my pvp setup but nothing to shoot at.
Like i said, for PvP we actually need a big playerbase that is willig to fight. Because PvP against someone who cant fight back or doesnt want it, is not fun.

And PvP for someone who doesn't want it (non-consensual) is not fun for them either. You need to get your friends who like PvP to come and play with you.

Instead of forcing people into solo or PvE groups, FD should focus more on the open and make PvP in space attractive and rewarding, but also risky.

FD doesn't force anyone into Solo or Group, and nor do they (or will they) force anyone into Open. The people playing in Open are the ones who need to figure out how to make it attractive for others to play there.

 

[Cowboy Bats]

By moving into solo you ruin our multiplayer expirience because we cant interact with you. We cant stop you from doing something, cant kill you to set you back a couple of hours, we cant pirate you. And this is why i and many other people leaving or are already gone.

Well, bye.

Edit: I originally posted the epic picture of Curly Bill who's quoted above, but the mods removed it. So please imagine Curly Bill's sarcastic grin when reading the above.

 

[Lestenio]

But Elite was designed with PvP interaction in mind. This is the reason why i have this game and why i payed the full price. Right now after the hardest grind i have my pvp setup but nothing to shoot at.
Like i said, for PvP we actually need a big playerbase that is willig to fight. Because PvP against someone who cant fight back or doesnt want it, is not fun.
Instead of forcing people into solo or PvE groups, FD should focus more on the open and make PvP in space attractive and rewarding, but also risky.

Unfortunantly, you bought the wrong game and you totally failed to research what the game was about.
The developers didn't add 400 billion stars just so everyone would stick to a handful of star system for the sole benefit of your enjoyment. Elite has always been a PvE experience with combat.

You are correct, for PvP to work you do need a big player base. But the source of that player base is not players who have no interest in that type of game. You are however not correct, FD do not need to focus on open and turn the game into a PvP combat fest. There are other games that do that better than elite ever will since that is not elites target audience.

 

[Sikandhar]

Sorry? Designed for PvP? "PvP will be rare and meaningful". That was David Braben.

Really ? Changing people's statement ? He said with and not for, that is pretty different imo

 

[cryon1cang3l]

Yes, this Game is designed to have PvP, but its no design to be just about PvP. And I hope Jockey comes in with his usual post (or you can just read it on the first Page) because there you can read something about what kind of Game they wanted to design - one where every player has the choice if he wants to do PvP or not.

This is a main, central part of the desing of the whole Game - Giving players the choice to play how they want. You may not like it that others people don't have to do what you want them to do but all in all thats a pretty nice thing. I mean really, don't wanna sound harsh, but you are not my King or anything like that.

Yeah but right now we see that people move into solo and private groups and into PvE "clans". The PvP becomes really rare. I dont expect this game to be like battlefield, but when you need 20-30 minutes to find an opponent in a popular and well populated system - thats just plain wrong.
And about the "friends" argument down there - PvP is different. Specially the competetive PvP. You need a large player base to actually play against different people with different skills and ideas. Playing against a couple of friends is the wrong advice for a PvPler. Playing WITH his friends against a large community is the way to go.

 

[Jockey79]

Really ? Changing people's statement ? He said with and not for, that is pretty different imo

That video is in my massive post, Faded Glory quoted it correctly - try watching it and seeing (page 1, post 3).
This is not a PvP game.

It is a PvE game, that you can PvP in - if you want to.

- - - Updated - - -

The PvP becomes really rare.

It's supposed to be rare - the boss said so... watch the video mentioned above.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Playing against a couple of friends is the wrong advice for a PvPler. Playing WITH his friends against a large community is the way to go.

.... then it will be up to the PvP oriented groups of players (there seem to be several) to make sure that they select Powers near each other to increase the chance PvP interaction.

 

[Faded Glory]

Really ? Changing people's statement ? He said with and not for, that is pretty different imo

Changed it. Not intending to to change his words or intent.

And no, in the context it's not really that different. He's complaining that not enough people want to play PvP. The game was not designed to be a space shoot out. It was designed to enable that for people who want it.

 

[Robert Maynard]

The game was not designed to be a space shoot out. It was designed to enable that for people who want it.

.... and also for people who don't want it (PvP) to be able to avoid it completely.

 

[PhazonAran]

Yeah but right now we see that people move into solo and private groups and into PvE "clans". The PvP becomes really rare. I dont expect this game to be like battlefield, but when you need 20-30 minutes to find an opponent in a popular and well populated system - thats just plain wrong.
And about the "friends" argument down there - PvP is different. Specially the competetive PvP. You need a large player base to actually play against different people with different skills and ideas. Playing against a couple of friends is the wrong advice for a PvPler. Playing WITH his friends against a large community is the way to go.

It's not FD's fault if people don't want to play with you. Deal with it.