Ship Builds & Load Outs Pulse Lasers need a...oops, beam lasers need a buff

[Abil Midena]

So, no one uses beam lasers. Everyone uses pulse. The low power requirement seems to be the draw.

I have been using beams on all my ships until I saw everyone (nearly) listing their ship builds, and they always used pulse. It saves so much power that you can make up for their lower damage by never having to take your finger off the trigger.

Which leads me to think beams need a buff. Somehow. I'm not a game dev, so someone else say how. More damage?

 

[RabidRich]

Beam need lower power draw. They are actually very nicely balanced w.r.t. damage and damage per energy, in the context of pulse and bursts. But the fitting is a dealbreaker when multiple pulse are easier to fit than a single beam, and you can cram in extra shield cells/boosters with what pulse free up.

The status quo would however be acceptable if 4pips sys+2weps was reduced in effectiveness relative to 4pips wep. Either by reducing shield resistance at 4sys or buffing resistance at 2pips. I mention this because it directly impacts the relative effectiveness of spike damage weaponry against attrition weapons.

Alternatively wep capacitor regeneration with 4pips wep could be boosted in a nonlinear way(like shield resistance currently). This would give high discharge weaponry a leg up.

These latter suggestions give more texture than simply reducing beam fitting reqs. With them you could build high risk setups that are actually viable. Currently beams don't have enough oomph against the large shield hitpoint pools that pulse fits can carry, so attrition fighting is the name of the game.

 

[Thasarion]

I use twin C3/G beams on my vulture (I know some of you say gimbals are not needed on a vulture, but I use them anyway) and I can shred small ships in seconds using them. I love the immense power they put on target. Sure, they run through the A rated distributer fast as hell, but I can take an Elite NPC Anacondas armor down by about 5-10% in one go. (I assume this is with military composite. I don't think I could do anywhere near as well if they have reflective) Sure, the pulse lasers can fire all but infinitely, but they take quite a while longer than the beams to take out some targets. The biggest problem for me was getting the damn things. I was jumping through high tech system to high tech system. The cost was also a large issue as well, with the price tag of 2,300,000 per weapon. Still, after I found them, I never considered selling them, and I doubt I ever will think about getting rid of them.

 

[Adept]

Basically pulse lasers are too good. The current balance point is such that it reduces gear choices to "Vulture with a pair of large pulse lasers". The easy subsystem kills are a big part of the problem, as is the low energy drain & high damage of pulse lasers.

 

[Mephane]

Basically pulse lasers are too good. The current balance point is such that it reduces gear choices to "Vulture with a pair of large pulse lasers". The easy subsystem kills are a big part of the problem, as is the low energy drain & high damage of pulse lasers.

You and I agree that the Vulture is too good. That pulse lasers are the typical choice there is entirely because they are very power-limited, which is exactly what pulse lasers are made for - setups where you power is an issue. It is not proof that pulse lasers were too good. Ships with ample power come in a variety of loadouts of all laser types.

 

[Arry]

I use 4 x E1/g on my Cobra. Most shield go down on one pass. However, I tend to pulse them, over 1k and under 500m, i just let them rip to the point of, 'taking heat damage', warning. By which time the job is done. When I have the cash, I want to put C2s on the top two slots and see how the power systems handle them. Although, I have been told, power may be an issuse with the C2s.

Arry.

 

[Abil Midena]

You and I agree that the Vulture is too good. That pulse lasers are the typical choice there is entirely because they are very power-limited, which is exactly what pulse lasers are made for - setups where you power is an issue. It is not proof that pulse lasers were too good. Ships with ample power come in a variety of loadouts of all laser types.

I don't have any real data, as I suppose no one does. However, 9/10 loadouts I see being thrown around and recommended all contain pulse lasers. The reason, I believe, is that they do plenty of damage for the tiny amount of power they draw. That goes for every ship not called Python, and I think the python's already been hit hard enough with the nerf bat.

As I said, I'm not looking to tick off 90% of the community by suggesting pulse lasers be changed. Rather, I'd like to see a tweak to beam lasers to make them a weapon people might actually consider.

edit* getting really tired of the verbal morality code around here.

 

[Arry]

I don't have any real data, as I suppose no one does. However, 9/10 loadouts I see being thrown around and recommended all contain pulse lasers. The reason, I believe, is that they do plenty of damage for the tiny amount of power they draw. That goes for every ship not called Python, and I think the python's already been hit hard enough with the nerf bat.

As I said, I'm not looking to tick off 90% of the community by suggesting pulse lasers be changed. Rather, I'd like to see a tweak to beam lasers to make them a weapon people might actually consider.

edit* getting really tired of the verbal morality code around here.

I love them, beams I mean. Gimbles make life really easy, lazy even. But with the beams, for me, I fire, if I think I am going to hit and then long pulse, if I do hit, the little gaps, in between a maybe just over a second pulse, is enough to recharge, just a bit. To extend the overall amount of effective damage time. I feel that I miss too much using other lasers.

Arry.

 

[Dunkel Reynolds]

I just switched from two large pulses to two medium beams on my Clipper and it seems to be doing just fine.

 

[Abil Midena]

If I'm reading ED shipyard right....

3C/G Beam Laser: 1.78 power, Thm load 6, Damage 6, Cost 2,396,160.

3E/G Pulse Laser: 0.92 power, Thm load 1, Damage 3, Cost 140,600.

So, going from a pulse to a beam gets me:

2x damage for 2x power, 6x thermal load, for 17x the cost.

Is that right?

If so, it seems to me the thermal load or the cost is out of whack.

edit* grammar

 

[Cmdr. Numa]

Beams are good as shield strippers along with kinetics. That means 1 or 2 beams, no more, 3 is already problematic. You just can't have sustained fire with them. 4 beams or more and even the biggest capacitor just wheezes. Pulse are the way to go with a 4+ laser build. Haven't compared how bursts fare yet.

 

[fantasmic]

The box on the wall says:

I don't have any real data, as I suppose no one does. However, 9/10 loadouts I see being thrown around and recommended all contain pulse lasers. The reason, I believe, is that they do plenty of damage for the tiny amount of power they draw. That goes for every ship not called Python, and I think the python's already been hit hard enough with the nerf bat.

As I said, I'm not looking to tick off 90% of the community by suggesting pulse lasers be changed. Rather, I'd like to see a tweak to beam lasers to make them a weapon people might actually consider.

edit* getting really tired of the verbal morality code around here.

*BZzZzZzt!* Abil Midena, you are fined five credits for repeated violations of the verbal morality statute.

 

[Abil Midena]

*BZzZzZzt!* Abil Midena, you are fined five credits for repeated violations of the verbal morality statute.

Seriously, man, I'm pretty sure Dr. Cocteau runs these forums. And my attitude towards that is pretty much the same as John Spartan.

 

[ParaB]

I just installed 2xC2 gimballed beams on my Asp and am not thrilled about their performance compared to 2x C2 pulse lasers. Yes, the beams are faster at stripping off shields but the heat buildup is just insane on my modestly-equipped (C modules) Asp.

 

[fantasmic]

I love using burst if I can spare the energy, but I have to admit that I avoid beams on any ship that doesn't have 5+ hardpoints which is a shame because I love them conceptually.

@Abil: I don't mind the censorship half as much as the seashells.

 

[Futuristic Kung Fu]

I use beams on all of my ships except ( as I am not that original) on the vulture. I find on medium and small hard points they are by far the best thermal weapon.

 

[Ranualf]

I have a Anaconda, and i only use 2x type 2 beam lasers, the rest are pulse(inc the huge hard point- type 3 turret pulse)
This is my current trade ship set up, http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=706,5...a9Y8SCgD88I,0Bk0AA0AA0AA08c08c08c0724_w7RA03w
yes its a bit excessive with the shield generators, but should anything decide to pick on me, i can fight them off.

I can run all the pulse lasers and get a good 30+ secs of continuous fire out of them, but if i drop the beams onto the target, it just goes zoooooooooom empty...in about 10 secs!

Smaller ships - basically any small size ship is going to massively overheat with a beam laser on it, use a heat sink to offset this.
Medium ones are ok with 1, but 2, is going to give off a load of heat (this includes pythons) so be careful with your load outs, again a heat sink is a viable option for your load out- and can be a game breaker in like vs like ships (they usually have mates) so Nuke em with the beams, drop a heat sink, and nail the power plant.

Pros of the beam vs pulse, they destroy shields like butter
They look very cool in battle
Once the target has no shields, they easily fry the target.

Negatives.
They cost a damn fortune! 20million for a type 3 turret!
They use a VAST amount of power
They create a LOT of heat

Basically balance your ship setup, and use the beams to assist with shield strip, then use them to specific kill the power plant of the target - this gives the target something to think about- heat build up, and getting its ass melted at the same time!

Just run the numbers on ED shipyard, and make sure you can afford to run them, power wise. As the OP said, the high power draw is a major issue, until you get into the Python range of ships, and even then you cant really have more than 2 without seriously giving yourself heat issues

 

[Poseidal]

If I'm reading ED shipyard right....

3C/G Beam Laser: 1.78 power, Thm load 6, Damage 6, Cost 2,396,160.

3E/G Pulse Laser: 0.92 power, Thm load 1, Damage 3, Cost 140,600.

So, going from a pulse to a beam gets me:

2x damage for 2x power, 6x thermal load, for 17x the cost.

Is that right?

If so, it seems to me the thermal load or the cost is out of whack.

edit* grammar

Costs is peanuts (for fixed anyway, compared with the prices the rest of the ship costs), and the values (apart from reactor load) so shouldn't factor.

Pulse does more DPE, Beam more DPS. Because of how multiples stack and how damage is energy limited, Pulse (which have better penetration ratings usually) usually ends up the winner.

Beams are better if you have fewer slots to use (and are using the others for kinetics), as it has less consumption so the capacitor regen if you have any makes up for it somewhat.

I think the problem is mainly the initial power cost. Everyone likes shield boosters* stacked on top of each other so limit power, favouring pulses as the power draw from beams knocks out the total power you have available. Bursts have a similar problem.

*These are a whole other problem. Why they are % based and not fixed value per module baffles me to this day.

 

[Cmdr Kurnek]

Essentially we are talking about general weapon and combat balance. Unfortunately, looking at FD's track record, I cant see anything changing anytime soon. They seem far more interested in adding big sweeping things that they can advertise as a success than fixing massive gameplay issues that turn people off once they've already bought the game. They really need to change their approach or they'll find the takeup on their paid expansions is less than they hoped for...

 

[Rankaze]

The real reason everyone uses pulses on combat ships is because FD chose to make power the primary limiting factor on combat ships.

Since I ditched my Vulture for the power-blessed Courier, I've traded my pulse lasers for burst lasers and I love 'em.