Ship Builds & Load Outs How do shield generators work?

Limpooka

L
I've been looking at Coriolis and trying to outfit my vulture, and I'm finding it hard to see the difference between the various shield generators. 5E is 20T and covers 405-1030 mass. 5A does the same but uses more power.

So what is the beneft of the higher grade shield that I cannot see on Coriolis?

(In other news... thanks to whoever built Coriolis. Love it)
 
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Demiga

D
Yeah, I didnt really get it at first either. But just think about a shield like its Wrapping Paper.

Each shield is a piece of wrapping paper that is only so big. With a ship that has the maximum mass the wrapping paper (shield) can support, then you will just barely be able to cover the entire ship with it. However, if you get a teeny tiny ship with very little mass, the wrapping paper can go around the ship multiple times providing extra layers making it much stronger. :)

It would be nice if they had just a tad bit better explanation in game for this though.
 

Abil Midena

Abil Midena
Still doesn't explain things...

If you have a max shield coverage in tons that is LESS than your current max tons with cargo/fuel, and then A BUNCH of A0 shield boosters, you have really strong shields...that DO NOT cover your ship.

If you have a max shield coverage in tons that is MORE than your current max tons with cargo/fuel, and then NO A0 shield boosters, you have really weak shields...that DO cover your ship.

Which is better?

For an example, consider a Conda:

7A shields 2650 max T. Let's say it keeps you above your current max tons with cargo/fuel. Your shield strength is 510 MJ.

6A shields 1350 max T. Let's say it does not keep you above your current max tons with cargo/fuel. You add 7 A0 shield boosters. Your shield strength is 1225 MJ.

Which is better?
 
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Cablefast

Cablefast
SHIELD STRENGTH = (BASE SHIELD STRENGTH * MODIFIER) * SHIELD BOOSTER
-
-Base Shield Strength is determined by the class and rating of the shield generator. This is a hidden figure in the game. FD devs have posted tables on the forum but some people are unsure of their accuracy. This is why edshipyard places a note on their shield strength.
-
-The modifier is determined by the difference between your ship's mass and the optimum mass for your shield generator. The further you are from optimum, the more poorly your shield preforms. Also, a ship mass over the Max will not allow a shield to form. For example, take a shield that has a 50T minimum, 100T optimum, 1,000T max . Put it on a ship that weighs 100T and it will preform perfectly. The same shield on a 125T ship will have a weaker shield than the 100T ship. The same shield on a 75T ship will have a weaker shield than the 100T ship but the same as the 125T ship. The same shield on a 1,001T ship will not work.
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-The Shield Booster is determined by the booster's class. Class A boosters provide a 20% increase to shields each. Less boost for lower rated ones. Shields with boosters seem to charge more slowly but this is untrue. The recharge rate is unchanged but the booster makes the shield "pool" bigger. For example, a theoretical shield with 100MJ is filled at a rate of 10MJ/s. This means it fills in 10 seconds. Add an A rated booster and it still fills at 10MJ/s but now it takes 12 seconds to fill. Also note that if your shield go down, they do not come back online until your pool reaches 50% filled. If you have shield boosters active, it will take longer to get to 50%. So if you are still in combat and your shields go down, disable the boosters until your shields come back up.
-
-I hope this clears everything up. Let me know if you have any more questions.
 

Cablefast

Cablefast
Demiga said:
Yeah, I didnt really get it at first either. But just think about a shield like its Wrapping Paper.

Each shield is a piece of wrapping paper that is only so big. With a ship that has the maximum mass the wrapping paper (shield) can support, then you will just barely be able to cover the entire ship with it. However, if you get a teeny tiny ship with very little mass, the wrapping paper can go around the ship multiple times providing extra layers making it much stronger. :)

It would be nice if they had just a tad bit better explanation in game for this though.
Click to expand...

BTW... This is completely wrong. Big powerful shield generator on a small ship = crap shield (not better shield).
 
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Abil Midena

Abil Midena
Cablefast said:
SHIELD STRENGTH = (BASE SHIELD STRENGTH * MODIFIER) * SHIELD BOOSTER
-
-Base Shield Strength is determined by the class and rating of the shield generator. This is a hidden figure in the game. FD devs have posted tables on the forum but some people are unsure of their accuracy. This is why edshipyard places a note on their shield strength.
-
-The modifier is determined by the difference between your ship's mass and the optimum mass for your shield generator. The further you are from optimum, the more poorly your shield preforms. Also, a ship mass over the Max will not allow a shield to form. For example, take a shield that has a 50T minimum, 100T optimum, 1,000T max . Put it on a ship that weighs 100T and it will preform perfectly. The same shield on a 125T ship will have a weaker shield than the 100T ship. The same shield on a 75T ship will have a weaker shield than the 100T ship but the same as the 125T ship. The same shield on a 1,001T ship will not work.
-
-The Shield Booster is determined by the booster's class. Class A boosters provide a 20% increase to shields each. Less boost for lower rated ones. Shields with boosters seem to charge more slowly but this is untrue. The recharge rate is unchanged but the booster makes the shield "pool" bigger. For example, a theoretical shield with 100MJ is filled at a rate of 10MJ/s. This means it fills in 10 seconds. Add an A rated booster and it still fills at 10MJ/s but now it takes 12 seconds to fill. Also note that if your shield go down, they do not come back online until your pool reaches 50% filled. If you have shield boosters active, it will take longer to get to 50%. So if you are still in combat and your shields go down, disable the boosters until your shields come back up.
-
-I hope this clears everything up. Let me know if you have any more questions.
Click to expand...

It helps a little, but still doesn't explain things. For example, here is my Conda loadout:

http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=706,7...69Y8SCgD88I,0Bk0AA0AA0AA08c08c7Sk07207207203w

So, this setup is fine if I'm empty, or if I have cargo that brings me up to 1013 t. Once I go over that, what does "will not work" mean? They obviously work. I show shield rings when fully loaded. So they work "not as well". But I have no way to know how "not as well". See what I mean? I can't make an intelligent decision on what shields I need.

Now consider the same load out with different shields...6A are 540 OPT and 1350 MAX. 7A are 1060 OPT and 2650 MAX. 6A max still does not cover your tonnage with all other racks as cargo (1350 max t vs 1381 t). 7A shields are the ONLY ones that will cover you with all other racks as cargo. Anything else "won't work". Is that really what they intended??
 

markkuk

M
Abil Midena said:
So, this setup is fine if I'm empty, or if I have cargo that brings me up to 1013 t. (...)
Now consider the same load out with different shields...6A are 540 OPT and 1350 MAX. 7A are 1060 OPT and 2650 MAX. 6A max still does not cover your tonnage with all other racks as cargo (1350 max t vs 1381 t). 7A shields are the ONLY ones that will cover you with all other racks as cargo. Anything else "won't work". Is that really what they intended??
Click to expand...
Your cargo or module mass has no effect on shield strength. Only the base mass of the ship hull (400 tons for Anaconda) counts when shield strength is calculated.
 

Cablefast

Cablefast
markkuk said:
Your cargo or module mass has no effect on shield strength. Only the base mass of the ship hull (400 tons for Anaconda) counts when shield strength is calculated.
Click to expand...
Yep, this exactly. Only base hull mass counts against the shield calculation.
 

Abil Midena

Abil Midena
Cablefast said:
Yep, this exactly. Only base hull mass counts against the shield calculation.
Click to expand...

Wow. You know how many hours I've played and been running around with unnecessarily large shields and wasting cargo space???

So for a Python and Anaconda, there's no reason to have bigger than a 5A shield.
 

Sathayorn

S
Abil Midena said:
Wow. You know how many hours I've played and been running around with unnecessarily large shields and wasting cargo space???

So for a Python and Anaconda, there's no reason to have bigger than a 5A shield.
Click to expand...
If playing in solo with your trading conda you're right. If you're using it for combat you couldn't be more wrong.
The variable based on hull mass is as follows - Minimum mass or lower = 150% shields, optimal mass = 100% shields, maximum mass = 50% shields.
If you're using a 5A shield because you're avoiding combat like the plague, you should be using a 5D instead so it affects your jump range less.
 

fantasmic

fantasmic
Cablefast said:
BTW... This is completely wrong. Big powerful shield generator on a small ship = crap shield (not better shield).
Click to expand...

Does not compute:
What you seem to be saying is that the best shield for a ship is the one that most closely matches it's base mass rather than the one that eclipses it's base mass by the most.

Let's look at the vulture and see if I understand this correctly. The base hull mass of a vulture is 230t. The optimum mass for it's maximum class 5 shield is 405t. The optimum mass for the next class down (4) is 285t. The difference between optimum and base mass is a whopping 175t for the class 5 shield, but only 55t for the class 4 shield. So I should expect to get better shielding If I downgrade a vulture from a 5A shield to a 4A?
 

Cablefast

Cablefast
fantasmic said:
Does not compute:
What you seem to be saying is that the best shield for a ship is the one that most closely matches it's base mass rather than the one that eclipses it's base mass by the most.

Let's look at the vulture and see if I understand this correctly. The base hull mass of a vulture is 230t. The optimum mass for it's maximum class 5 shield is 405t. The optimum mass for the next class down (4) is 285t. The difference between optimum and base mass is a whopping 175t for the class 5 shield, but only 55t for the class 4 shield. So I should expect to get better shielding If I downgrade a vulture from a 5A shield to a 4A?
Click to expand...
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Honestly, I just got the shield equation off the Elite Wiki page. http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wiki/Shield_Generator
It could be wrong or my interpretation of it could be wrong.
They have a prepopulated table with shield info here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Xq2fmxhjfNiwtR2fBR1MAZrwEcjFudSuSjTOLwfcqlM/pubhtml
and here: http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wiki/File:ED_Shields.png
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I can't actually vouch for the correctness of those tables. Also note they don't have the newest ships so they are probably a little old. I would say that you should build your ship in edshipyard or ccoriolis.io and assume that it is giving you good information.
 

Abil Midena

Abil Midena
Sathayorn said:
If playing in solo with your trading conda you're right. If you're using it for combat you couldn't be more wrong.
The variable based on hull mass is as follows - Minimum mass or lower = 150% shields, optimal mass = 100% shields, maximum mass = 50% shields.
If you're using a 5A shield because you're avoiding combat like the plague, you should be using a 5D instead so it affects your jump range less.
Click to expand...

I'll ignore your troll bait, and just ask...

We have 5 different numbers...

Base hull mass.
Hull mass with loadout.
Hull mass with loadout and full cargo/fuel.

Opt shield strength.
Max shield strength.

So...

When you refer to mass, do you mean base hull mass, hull mass with loadout, or hull mass with loadout and full cargo/fuel?
 

cmmcleod

cmmcleod
Abil Midena said:
I'll ignore your troll bait, and just ask...

We have 5 different numbers...

Base hull mass.
Hull mass with loadout.
Hull mass with loadout and full cargo/fuel.

Opt shield strength.
Max shield strength.

So...

When you refer to mass, do you mean base hull mass, hull mass with loadout, or hull mass with loadout and full cargo/fuel?
Click to expand...

The function for calculating shield mass can be see here:

https://github.com/cmmcleod/coriolis/blob/master/app/js/shipyard/module-shipyard.js#L210

The Mass value used for both Corilois.io and edshipyard.com is Base Ship / Hull Mass, i.e. excluding fuel, cargo, and most importantly components/loadout
 
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CMDR Atmosfera

C
i dont get it....what you mean not cover your ship?they always cover entire ship arent they
so you saying that its better to have a 70% protection shield with shield booster then 100% percent shield without boosters??
 

CMDR Atmosfera

C
i really want to see what the prismatic shields generators all about....hopefully someone with aisling duval will post a good review after 4 weeks
 
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