Agreed, but with more risk it *could* balance out. Say you got 200t at 8k/ton, i.e. 1.6mil max profit:
- first you have to fly 10+ jumps (due to the distance btwn controlled systems of these 2 powers) reducing the profit/hr for everyone.
- second you fly into a nest of pirates - if you're interdicted and give out 20t, that's 400k out.. for every interdiction. If you're not shot down outright that is.. hey you're in pirate space after all.
- third, any joe blow with a cargo scanner by the station can get you a fine worth 900k or so (I'd be the first one to do this btw.. sit at 8km out of the station where people are lining up their entrance, start cargo scanning and comm 'drop 20t or get a 1M fine')
- probably many other things that pirates could come up with
Yeah it's still a lot of cash at the end if you make the perfect run, but you'd get to work for it and take some risk..
As far as the 'i can just go to solo', yeah.. you can already grind billions in solo today without risk so who cares.
freelance smuggling is not really smuggling cause you are basically taking something somewhere and hoping that there is someone that wants what you have.
Where is that coming from? Since when should smuggling only be smuggling if done via missions?
The fundamental issue with non-mission smuggling come from the fact that illegal status for a commodity doesn't artificially drive prices higher as it does in RL, and that there is virtually no risk involved (sadly lack of risk applies to more than just smuggling) , making it not only almost as boring as space trucking, but also less profitable than regular trading.
There are some edge cases where you can make good money doing it, but these are usually side effects of badly thought mechanics or just plain bugs, such as the one discussed in the OP.
And no amount of missions or PP mechanics will fix the underlying problem of the background simulation not dealing correctly with the legal status of goods. And the worrying thing is, FD seem to have trouble really understanding that judging by the fact that for a long time they didn't even make the difference between stolen and illegal goods, and that at last they merely removed the 50% malus on illegal goods, where illegal goods should obviously be on super-high demand (although in small quantities) and therefore sell much, much higher than the gal average (and don't get me started on artificial price ceilings).
I shouldn't have to rely on the special mechanics of specific PP factions to actually make money by smuggling. The inhabited bubble is bigger than that, and I'm pretty sure wherever there are laws, there is a lot of money to be made breaking them if you are skilled enough. Sadly this is only true in a few places atm, and skill doesn't even come into play.
Double agree. I think it was a bit crazy before but if they just halved it and then doubled the fine things would even out nicely what with it being a pirate nest and the long jump time for the best profits
I do agree vanilla smuggling should be more profitable just of the bat. You risk massive fines and more accidents at the doking port potentialy loosing alot of money. Its trading but with much more risk and limmitation so it should pay out twice as good if you make it on a realy good run
The whole thread had me confused. Im a bit slow at times. I thought it was about smuggling mainly not cash cows. Do you know if any of the game play has been changed?
The reward following the risk.
though it was way too easy, but it was a rush none the less and you would actually see dividends for taking it.
the profits were right where they needed to be imo. The problem was that it was too easy to make the run. No specialized outfitting, no stealth mechanics, just trajectory and speed. That said it was nice to have that be part of the equation to otherwise mindless trading.
frontier should have ran with this rather than nerf it to the ground. Expanded the black market, added new commodities for those that don't want to deal in slaves, increased security, hitman patrolling SC, pirate gangs in terrifying ships, massive fines, fines over a certian threshold being a bounty encouraging smaller ship usage, ect.
They didn't expect people to make so much because they didn't anticipate how good some of us have gotten at speed docking due to months of trading.
This needs to be balanced at the top end of pilot skill, otherwise they will have everyone doing it. But it needs to actually follow risk and reward. This weekend was an example of one without the other. There was ample reward with little risk and it blew up.
The reward following the risk.
though it was way too easy, but it was a rush none the less and you would actually see dividends for taking it.
the profits were right where they needed to be imo. The problem was that it was too easy to make the run. No specialized outfitting, no stealth mechanics, just trajectory and speed. That said it was nice to have that be part of the equation to otherwise mindless trading.
frontier should have ran with this rather than nerf it to the ground. Expanded the black market, added new commodities for those that don't want to deal in slaves, increased security, hitman patrolling SC, pirate gangs in terrifying ships, massive fines, fines over a certian threshold being a bounty encouraging smaller ship usage, ect.
They didn't expect people to make so much because they didn't anticipate how good some of us have gotten at speed docking due to months of trading.
This needs to be balanced at the top end of pilot skill, otherwise they will have everyone doing it. But it needs to actually follow risk and reward. This weekend was an example of one without the other. There was ample reward with little risk and it blew up.
They mucked up the maths a lot. Very simple stuff. These folks have built a galaxy but they cant get some very simple stuff right. Spaghetti programming and thinking. They tweak rather than fix. But game wise not much has changed, prices went up on an item. Folk rushed to it. Prices went down. Folk complained. People seemed to be loving smuggling. But ooops Imperial slaves are fetching a fortune on Archons black market. Who'd have thought?! So rather than have Archon legalize them like he does with every thing else, they pull the most popular thing in months. People got it. Power play? What's that. Oh smuggling, yeah I get it So they failed again. Could have been resolved in testing. Ho hum. People almost always remember the bad and disappointments. What are players doing about it? We all know who to email rather than huddle on a forum bemoaning lost credits. Pitch forks and jaffa cakes at the ready!
Smuggling isnt dead. The game is ballsed up all over but in many ways its technically superb, thanks to the designers, coders etc. The front line are brilliant.
So if you like hot docking why stop? I've been smuggling for about a year in the game and the last few days looked like it was actually getting sorted. But it's not dead.
Edit - and they put sign posts to every black market in the galaxy on the map.
They mucked up the maths a lot. Very simple stuff. These folks have built a galaxy but they cant get some very simple stuff right. Spaghetti programming and thinking. They tweak rather than fix. But game wise not much has changed, prices went up on an item. Folk rushed to it. Prices went down. Folk complained. People seemed to be loving smuggling. But ooops Imperial slaves are fetching a fortune on Archons black market. Who'd have thought?! So rather than have Archon legalize them like he does with every thing else, they pull the most popular thing in months. People got it. Power play? What's that. Oh smuggling, yeah I get it So they failed again. Could have been resolved in testing. Ho hum. People almost always remember the bad and disappointments. What are players doing about it? We all know who to email rather than huddle on a forum bemoaning lost credits. Pitch forks and jaffa cakes at the ready!
Smuggling isnt dead. The game is ballsed up all over but in many ways its technically superb, thanks to the designers, coders etc. The front line are brilliant.
So if you like hot docking why stop? I've been smuggling for about a year in the game and the last few days looked like it was actually getting sorted. But it's not dead.
Edit - and they put sign posts to every black market in the galaxy on the map.
Smuggling for a start, should have it's own rank. I'm kind of annoyed at it being lumped in with trading now, as its a different skillset. Also, seeing as it's something frowned upon by the Pilot's Federation, it should probably not be "Elite" as the top rank. Something like "Ghost", "Invisible"... Whatever.
Apart from that, I still want it to be epically hard. Full boost docking to the letterbox in my Python is about as hard as I can make the challenge, and that is very easy if you've spent the time.
I want it to be properly hard. even when I'm damn good at it, I want to have to concentrate right up to the letterbox (or the docking pad!).
Give us equipment to help outfit our ships:
-Low heat signature hull - reduces heat (does not eliminate it totally). Basically runs a few degrees cooler overall, fast to drop heat, slow to gain heat, but weaker overall, and means you are far more vulnerable to weapons when your shields are down. This means it can also be used by explorers - but has little benefit to combat pilots, as the small gain in lower heat signature is offset by greater vulnerability.
-Smugglers cargo hold - 25% reduction in capacity of the same class cargo rack, but reduces the effectiveness of a scan. Once again, reduces, not eliminates.
-Scan shields - reduces risk of scans by lowering heat signature (increasing scan times), but also reduced effectiveness as a shield by one grade - ie - 6A smugglers shield offers the protection of a 5A regular shield. Once again, of benefit to explorers, as it could also be used to reduce heat if you jump into the middle of a binary pair.
An overall combination of all these items merely increases the time it takes to scan your ship. All equipped, a scan takes, perhaps, double the time. This would mean you'd still need to be quick, but if a scan starts when you're 2km from the letterbox, you have a call to make - boost like mad, or bail out and hope you get far enough away to avoid the scan. higher tech systems should probably also have better scanners.
Anyway, random thoughts, I'm sure there areplenty of better ideas out there, smuggling just has so much potential to be fun. I WANT to be reamed if I get caught, I want to suffer a huge penalty, to get a serious rep drop. Only those that REALLY persist and work hard to do it well should make huge profits - and even then, only by being focused. On. Every. Single. Docking. Sequence.
Every.
Single.
One.
Screw up once, and that's you're last 3 runs wasted, and hostile status.
It should be *easy* in a sidey, but an Asp, or better still, a Python, should be properly hard. A T-9 or Anaconda neigh on impossible.
The sign posts are also kind of annoying. Would be nic eif they showed up only if you had discovered them...
The stellar forge probably doesn't have thousands of commanders waiting to throw thousands of monkey wrenches into the works when they forget to carry the two.
Smuggling for a start, should have it's own rank. Yes Sir spot on.
I'm kind of annoyed at it being lumped in with trading now, as its a different skillset. Yes Sir spot on.
Also, seeing as it's something frowned upon by the Pilot's Federation, it should probably not be "Elite" as the top rank. Something like "Ghost", "Invisible"... Whatever. King Pin
Apart from that, I still want it to be epically hard. Yes Sir spot on.
I want it to be properly hard. even when I'm damn good at it, I want to have to concentrate right up to the letterbox (or the docking pad!). It's getting there. Military out patrols
Give us equipment to help outfit our ships:
-Low heat signature hull - reduces heat (does not eliminate it totally). Yes Sir spot on.
Basically runs a few degrees cooler overall, fast to drop heat, slow to gain heat, but weaker overall, and means you are far more vulnerable to weapons when your shields are down. This means it can also be used by explorers - but has little benefit to combat pilots, as the small gain in lower heat signature is offset by greater vulnerability. Whats the least visible weapon to players?
-Smugglers cargo hold - 25% reduction in capacity of the same class cargo rack, but reduces the effectiveness of a scan. Once again, reduces, not eliminates. Not so sure. Why not higher quality anti scan materials? Not that bothered but that down to the way things are
-Scan shields - reduces risk of scans by lowering heat signature (increasing scan times), but also reduced effectiveness as a shield by one grade - ie - 6A smugglers shield offers the protection of a 5A regular shield. Yes Sir spot on.
Once again, of benefit to explorers, as it could also be used to reduce heat if you jump into the middle of a binary pair. Yes Sir spot on.
An overall combination of all these items merely increases the time it takes to scan your ship. All equipped, a scan takes, perhaps, double the time. This would mean you'd still need to be quick, but if a scan starts when you're 2km from the letterbox, you have a call to make - boost like mad, or bail out and hope you get far enough away to avoid the scan. higher tech systems should probably also have better scanners. I have never really liked the emphasis on speed. Just a matter of preference.
Anyway, random thoughts, I'm sure there areplenty of better ideas out there, smuggling just has so much potential to be fun. I WANT to be >>> reamed <<< if I get caught, I want to suffer a huge penalty, to get a serious rep drop. Only those that REALLY persist and work hard to do it well should make huge profits - and even then, only by being focused. On. Every. Single. Docking. Sequence. That was 1.0 and I was hostile with almost every one. Im joing a power for the sake of it just to make up for the game lack
Every.
Single.
One.
Screw up once, and that's you're last 3 runs wasted, and hostile status. 1.0
It should be *easy* in a sidey, but an Asp, or better still, a Python, should be properly hard. A T-9 or Anaconda neigh on impossible.
The sign posts are also kind of annoying. Would be nic eif they showed up only if you had discovered them... Spot on
I want smugglers to potentially become bounty hunter fodder. I want them to burn the candle at both ends. A long string of good runs and you're living large ... Mess up once and 1\4 the galaxy wants you're head...and once they get it the rags to riches story becomes riches to rags.
Personally I'd love to see the smuggler life bounce you from nothing to golden pythons to bankruptcy faster than just about anything.
I want smugglers to potentially become bounty hunter fodder. I want them to burn the candle at both ends. A long string of good runs and you're living large ... Mess up once and 1\4 the galaxy wants you're head...and once they get it the rags to riches story becomes riches to rags.
Personally I'd love to see the smuggler life bounce you from nothing to golden pythons to bankruptcy faster than just about anything.
I would love for there to be some kind of Smuggling/Criminal/Piracy Rank. Not sure lore wise if the Pilot Federation are supposed to be the "good guys", but that doesn't mean we can't have an infamy rank.
I got heatsink launcher for my conda to do stealth run and i always boost into stations, i never thought people aren't boosting to dock. I traded so god damn much that i've got skill and tools for smuggling. Damn nerf, now my ultra trading skills are still useless unless i want to trade. I never ever used lame docking computer. Never crashed into anyone and died (except that one time that i wanted to surprise scare friend but he was type that boosts out of station and you know).
So thanks FD for not disappointing us in keeping this game blant, boring grind not worth returning to. So thanks again for putting fun in funeral (rip smuggling).
Just remember, the more FDev nerfs the things us pirates love to do (smuggling, pirating ,etc.) then the more likely we're to turn to outright player-killing in open.
So before people whine and complain about smuggling making "too much money" ask yourselves "do I really want bored pirate factions stomping players in my systems and costing those players a lot of lost credits?"
Last weekend saw many of the more notorious player pirate groups smuggling - and not pirating or killing players. Now, which would you rather have them more interested in?
In the face of President Hudson’s recent rise to power, the value of illicit goods has skyrocketed throughout the galaxy in anticipation of a crackdown on illegal commodities that are traditionally transported via the Federation. Dealers of all stripes have seen their profits soar over the last week, with hundreds of new millionaires being minted off the back of President Hudson’s perceived stance against criminal commodities.
With the President’s appointment of his new administration now complete, sources close to Hudson have revealed to GalNet that an increase in security spending is very high on his agenda.
“Things are about to get very difficult for traffickers,” one anonymous aide told the Mars Tribune.
“The President’s ordered a bunch of those new Diamondback Scouts to act as short range interceptors for local security services. They don’t pack much of a punch on their own, but you try and outrun a swarm of angry Diamondbacks followed up by a couple of Viper wings and see how well you do.”
“’Course if you do outrun them, say hello to the Navy. A month from now, two months top, the war against drugs will be done and dusted. You mark my words.”
Prices of illegal narcotics had just started to stabilise after a week of frantic black market trading, and this latest news could well send prices spiking up again as dealers across the galaxy try to unload their stash before the expected galaxy-wide lockdown begins.
