Piracy and Risk

Well, to be honest, I cannot imagine the space being without pirates. And it's a hard gameplay, no wonder here. I'm for the normal, sensible piracy as it were, and I would surely give my cargo for the Spaghetti monster sake. It's the interaction that is fun here, you play a gunman, I play a boat loaded with goods, you take my stuff, I fly away and call police ) and by the time they arrive there's no one there, something like that.
Now, we see so-called pirates flying out there having fun time laughing in face of non-combatant traders, bullying them even in out-of-game style for non apparent RP reason, just for feeling superior and considering everyone else inferior. You know they can't beat you, and you post your 'great encounters' naming the victim and shaming them even with a little editing of the story. Lying, to look like you're cool. Gosh, it's just low. You're just gaining enemies both in-game and out-of-game. I'm addressing to those who's 'gameplay' like this is to fulfil the absense of strength in reality.

Actually this is quite true. The majority of the naming and shaming of 'combat logging' videos I have seen are made by players interdicting un-armed type 6's and type 7's, baiting them to combat log based on the rather abusive language that you see in the chat box, then reporting them for combat logging, and posting videos of the encounter for all to see.
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I don't condone combat logging in any way, but at the same time I would never report anyone I saw doing it. It is really like a child calling for his/her mother because some other kid in the playground wouldn't move aside in the line for the slippery dip for you, or in another analogy pushed you out of the line. I couldn't stoop that low to cry foul, it is time to grow up and learn how to solve your problems independantly.
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I would also consider that a player may have combat logged simply because he didn't have the insurance money, and did not wish to start again in a side-winder. I am not saying this is a valid excuse to combat log, and yes the player should have had insurance, blah blah blah, but also, some people may just stop playing the game for such a thing, loosing players is a more significant issue then a player who combat logs at one time.
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The other thing of course is how do you define 'combat' in 'combat-logging'. A PvP interaction between a trade ship with-out weapons (and you never know, without cargo) and a pirate really stretches the word 'combat'. Logging out of the game to avoid this situation is un-desirable and should be addressed appropriately with 'just' actions as it potentially deprives a player from his chosen source of income, but making videos of it is far worse, and this should receive a far greater penalty or ban from the game.
 
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Actually this is quite true. The majority of the naming and shaming of 'combat logging' videos I have seen are made by players interdicting un-armed type 6's and type 7's, baiting them to combat log based on the rather abusive language that you see in the chat box, then reporting them for combat logging, and posting videos of the encounter for all to see.
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I don't condone combat logging in any way, but at the same time I would never report anyone I saw doing it. It is really like a child calling for his/her mother because some other kid in the playground wouldn't move aside in the line for the slippery dip for you, or in another analogy pushed you out of the line. I couldn't stoop that low to cry foul, it is time to grow up and learn how to solve your problems independantly.
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I would also consider that a player may have combat logged simply because he didn't have the insurance money, and did not wish to start again in a side-winder. I am not saying this is a valid excuse to combat log, and yes the player should have had insurance, blah blah blah, but also, some people may just stop playing the game for such a thing, loosing players is a more significant issue then a player who combat logs at one time.
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The other thing of course is how do you define 'combat' in 'combat-logging'. A PvP interaction between a trade ship with-out weapons (and you never know, without cargo) and a pirate really stretches the word 'combat'. Logging out of the game to avoid this situation is un-desirable and should be addressed appropriately with 'just' actions as it potentially deprives a player from his chosen source of income, but making videos of it is far worse, and this should receive a far greater penalty or ban from the game.
i agree , combat logging is just something you will encounter , the shaming and being a jerk just cause you know some one cant fight back is just wrong as is doing that to force some one to log to get away from you then reporting them for combat logging , lol online gaming brings out the jerk in some people , tends to give the community as a whole a bad name just from the actions of a few, heard blocking folks posed to keep you from encountering them . if so , might be good way to deal with bad apples you encounter , if it works as i have heard that is
 
no trader in an asp or smaller is making millions an hour and definately not 10s of millions and I am not saying pirating is easy as a profession, but load of high value product in a t6 (what the op was using) may cost 1million and make a profit of at best 150k. to lose that half his stock will a good hours grinding so its not an easy loss/job there either. I would be surprised to see a new player have a conda in a week of grinding trade and if so how much time a day is one spending trading, myself it is lucky to be 2 hours thats 14 in a week add a couple of bonus hours for the weekend and maybe 20 hours, at 2 million an hour (cause traders make soooo much) thats still a long way off a conda and barely a good clipper (assuming you have the rep to buy one).

Sorry pirates, while what you do is not easy, and its completely within the game mechanics and I dont actually have a big issue with the job itself, the idiots that are out asking for 20+ tonnes of a traders stock (in a t6 etc) you are not working hard you are tryng to cream it from weaker players.

And don't forget, even if a particular pirate is a decent player, traders RISK being pirated each and every trip. Not just by players, but by NPCs too. We risk being destroyed and incurring costs in the millions over the stupidest little things. Last night, in my shiny new T7, I was travelling empty to another station in the system I was in to look for a better FSD so I could return to my old trade run. I got interdicted in solo by an NPC and got the classic "Drop cargo or die". Before I could even type "No Cargo" into the chat, I was being fired upon, my ship destroyed. Over 1Mill on immediate insurance cost, first flight out. Good job I had allowed for an insurance claim or two before I bought the thing or I'd be back in a sidey right now [as would befit being brain dead enough to leave dock without being able to absorb that cost]. But that is about an hour's runs without problem that I have to do to get back to where I was the second I bought the [Bleep] thing.
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So certainly the NPC pirates are currently broken, which may be why some of the player ones have taken up the same attitude.
 
I'll be honest, I've given up on even addressing the issues in open. There's simply not a way to actually make traders able to defend themselves and profitable that the community will go with. I was hoping we'd see trader escort wings, with a few fighters escorting a loaded T-9 across space for a share of the profits, but we still don't have any decent social systems to promote this and making traders able to reasonably solo against pirate ships would be game breaking.

When it comes down to it, some or even most pirates could be great guys that take a reasonable bit of cargo and go their way. All it takes is a few who interdict and immediately destroy me without enhancing my experience in any way for me to be done with the issue. That one explosion can undo over an hour's work for a player pretty easily (especially if that person is a miner) for the couple minutes of amusement the 'pirate' gets out of it. Regardless of profit margins why would I want to let people get their jollies by tainting my experience?
That's why I now play solo or in a PvE group.
 
vastly superior ships and wings prey on defenseless cargo carriers and are never in any danger.
They can't demand credits, so pure pirate in ED is very rare (essentially piracy gives no profit). When they can ask 1-2 mil ransom for your nice ship then we can talk about risk/reward for piracy.
 
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In the last week I have been hit by Pirates / Pirate Wings on EVERY run to Antal. The wings are generally greedy, because there are simply more pirate hulls to fill. Some let you live and others are spiteful and kill you anyway. I have been hit by the same pirate or wing on the following trip. I have lost a few million this week in cargo, profits and paying for ship insurance, which lead me to switch to solo play, which I do not particularly enjoy. It is quite clear that a lot of the traders have gone solo - a system with an active community goad used be so crowded, that there was some defence in the numbers.
I do not have a problem with piracy, but when it makes trading unsustainable and unpleasant, then there is a problem.
 
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Wait, what!?!? We can communicate with npcs? How did I not know about this feature :eek:
No idea. I do it with NPCs as it adds to the RP, however, as it seems like I'm going to get destroyed anyway [whether I am carrying cargo or not, whether I communicate or not] then I might as well not bother. I was also using it to illustrate how fast it happened. The NPC didn't even scan me, just "Drop cargo or die, hur hur hur!" and opened fire. As I said, was not carrying cargo, so no real reason for a 'pirate' to do anything to me. Was murdered by an NPC using piracy as a (Cheap) excuse to take out a defenceless trader.
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[Now that sounds familiar, doesn't it?]
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And as to the greed of pirates, there are some in another thread saying the cargo limit should be raised to 100T. Basically, they want half a T7 because otherwise "It isn't profitable" for them! If I lose my current T7, it's 1.2MCr insurance, and about the same in lost cargo. I make around 200KCr per run in profit on a cargo cost of up to 1.4MCr. IF I lose half of that cargo in a single run, I have to work for another 3/4Hr just to get back to where I was - with no guarantee that I won't get pirated again in that time. If I lose the ship, I'm down a couple of hours.
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If someone actually interacts with me, I'd happily drop 20T of cargo worth 5-6K/T, or offer them the proposal of escorting me for a single round trip [or less, if they're lucky] to where I can buy gold and I will buy 20T of gold and drop it for them willingly after that. But all I've seen so far is "Drop or Die" or variants of it. And yes, I include "Drop 5 out of 7 rares, you can keep the rest of it which you can make maybe 300Cr/T" to be "Drop or die".
 

Scudmungus

Banned
Ting be - wi can pirate. AN wi can trade. Even BH. (And wi can mine but....) I get choices. Trader get choices. Pirate get choices - ok.

And if dem are complaining dat traders, tradin in Open, are denying em di credits.. then HA! You trade in Open more the while, make some money - there yuh go, makin credits again! Boring? Maybe - reliable credits! Do sum real work mon! An you no complain about pirates, ok? :D


Mi?

I would have traders, when caught, have lickle options:

- fight an high risk of die. Leavin behind sum cargo. Mark de map tho, as warnin (see below)

- run and high risk death. Leavin behind sum cargo. Mark de map tho, as warnin (see below)

- or explode wid self destruct. Makin KABOOM do damage an increasing insurance premium if repeated, before cool-off period (so becomes less tempting/option/hits traders harder if dey repeat.) Mark de map tho, as warnin (see below)

- comply. Negotiate. Sum banter! :)





..but traders get option to avoid/better scout an inform others of pirate activity, thru various ways of Markin de Map:

- anywhere but anarchy, explosions mark map/conflict mark map. Players can see busy areas an choose to avoid system/area.

- can drop warnin beacon/distress beacon to mark di map. Beacon broadcast Cmdr name. Could be trap, sure. Learn tricky Cmdr! Trader can choose to avoid system/area.

- NPC BH/security spawn quicker / patrol near marked areas.

- ..an of course, not map related but, all de usual 'Hire NPC escorts'.​



So aye, pirate advantage when catch trader an able to set traps!. Trader better informed an able to inform others of pirate activity. Self Destruct do som damage but increase insurance each time, till cool-off period finish.

Right. Mi don. Jah love to all Cmdr, be they choosin to trade, mine, BH, pirate or whateva.
 
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Piracy in and of itself shouldn't be penalized. I think the cargo drop amount should be random, But mostly governed by the type of hatchbreaker and or cargo hatch health. 20 as a global number isn't quite fair I think. I haven't pirated enough to confirm these #'s.

But Murdering your pray should be a rash decision that has serious consequences. 8,000cr is not a fair fine! This implies that a Sidewinder is more than a pilots life. A true pirate would want to take someone's cargo again and again not blow their prey up. If the Fine was say more than 80,000cr, or more, then maybe killing for no reason would slow down a bit. Or a Detective squad of big ships that would hunt down CMDR's that kill two CMDR's within a certain time limit?
 
Ting be - wi can pirate. AN wi can trade. Even BH. (And wi can mine but....) I get choices. Trader get choices. Pirate get choices - ok.

And if dem are complaining dat traders, tradin in Open, are denying em di credits.. then HA! You trade in Open more the while, make some money - there yuh go, makin credits again! Boring? Maybe - reliable credits! Do sum real work mon! An you no complain about pirates, ok? :D


Mi?

I would have traders, when caught, have lickle options:
- fight an high risk of die. Leavin behind sum cargo. Mark de map tho, as warnin (see below)

- run and high risk death. Leavin behind sum cargo. Mark de map tho, as warnin (see below)

- or explode wid self destruct. Makin KABOOM do damage an increasing insurance premium if repeated, before cool-off period (so becomes less tempting/option/hits traders harder if dey repeat.) Mark de map tho, as warnin (see below)

- comply. Negotiate. Sum banter! :)





..but traders get option to avoid/better scout an inform others of pirate activity, thru various ways of Markin de Map:
- anywhere but anarchy, explosions mark map/conflict mark map. Players can see busy areas an choose to avoid system/area.

- can drop warnin beacon/distress beacon to mark di map. Beacon broadcast Cmdr name. Could be trap, sure. Learn tricky Cmdr! Trader can choose to avoid system/area.

- NPC BH/security spawn quicker / patrol near marked areas.

- ..an of course, not map related but, all de usual 'Hire NPC escorts'.​



So aye, pirate advantage when catch trader an able to set traps!. Trader better informed an able to inform others of pirate activity. Self Destruct do som damage but increase insurance each time, till cool-off period finish.

Right. Mi don. Jah love to all Cmdr, be they choosin to trade, mine, BH, pirate or whateva.

Unfortunately, one of the popular bounty hunting tactics has been removed by the changes made to the beacon. Be in a wing of 4, have 3 combat orientated ships such as 3 Fer De Lance wait in nearby system. Have a Lakon Type 9, the 4th wing member enter the system swarming with pirate activity (The wing is not made until after the type 9 is interdicted so it appears to be alone). The Lakon Type 9 is loaded with shield cell banks. When the type 9 is interdicted by a would be pirate/s, it sets up wing beacon, the 3 Fer De Lance immediately arrive by the type 9 (original wing beacon mechanic), and so trap is sprung.
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Only players that actively engage as bounty hunters do this sort of thing. But there are bounty hunting groups around the place that co-ordinate with traders with media external to the game, i.e. reddit. However, only traders that are interested in PvP will do something like this, and a significant percentage of the rest will just switch to solo mode.
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These are a only a fraction of cases. In general, traders do not trade under the idea that they have to make enough credits so they can keep pirates in their profession as well. I simply do not believe you that any player trader has willingly accepted handing over cargo to you. And so I have no qualms with pirates that don't bother asking, at least with me anyway, you can guess what the answer might be :)
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From a pirates perspective, traders are commodities. The supply of them is a dynamic thing, probably the only genuinely dynamic commodity in the game. If you pirate one of these commodities too much, the supply may suddenly vanish (i.e. trader switches to solo mode). Your own actions affect your income source when pirating, and so much of what you have said here simply does not happen.
 
Well, sorry mate, never heard about you, of you, or whatever.

The thing is, traders can actually afford not to cave in to pirates, that is what you have to deal with.

Great, now you know. (Who knows if you are pretending or not)

Did I ever say that traders cannot stand up for themselves? I even posted a reply to a post a page before commending how a trader who decides to self-destruct rather than relinquishing cargo for pirate to have character. I also stated in this thread that they are free to get into a larger ship and shrug off pirates.

Please read if you actually want to participate in a discussion, it's kind of important.

What you have to deal with, good sir, is putting some time into actually reading the posts in the thread before you post something.
 
Its the standard piracy thread, start off on a good point, immediately turns into traders shouting about self destruction to spite the dirty pirates like it matters :/ its about as hopeless as open vs solo these threads haven't changed since release.
 

Scudmungus

Banned
Its the standard piracy thread, start off on a good point, immediately turns into traders shouting about self destruction to spite the dirty pirates like it matters :/ its about as hopeless as open vs solo these threads haven't changed since release.

Truth! tho sum destruct on principle. Call it fi dem 'code' :D
 
Its the standard piracy thread, start off on a good point, immediately turns into traders shouting about self destruction to spite the dirty pirates like it matters :/ its about as hopeless as open vs solo these threads haven't changed since release.

I think it does matter to the trader. Having a pirate successfully acquire cargo from a trader would be a sharper pang then if they absorbed there-own rebuy cost if it would mean that the pirate went away empty handed. Well, personally, I would be seething with anger at myself if a pirate was able to acquire cargo from me, I wouldn't mind seeing my re-buy screen if it meant that the pirate didn't get any cargo. There is a real psychological effect here, it matters.
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The OP was referring to an apparent one-sided nature of pirate vs trader interactions. I offered a means through which a trader can acquire their own satisfaction from such an encounter, a means which I employ. Satisfaction matters.
 
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I think it does matter to the trader. Having a pirate successfully acquire cargo from a trader would be a sharper pang then if they absorbed there-own rebuy cost if it would mean that the pirate went away empty handed. Well, personally, I would be seething with anger at myself if a pirate was able to acquire cargo from me, I wouldn't mind seeing my re-buy screen if it meant that the pirate didn't get any cargo. There is a real psychological effect here, it matters.
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The OP was referring to an apparent one-sided nature of pirate vs trader interactions. I offered a means through which a trader can acquire their own satisfaction from such an encounter, a means which I employ. Satisfaction matters.
Of course it matters to the trader. But that shouldn't stop a pirate from getting what they want from the game.
1. It's only a game! take a chill pill and relax [Advice to traders being stopped, not Persephonius]
2. provided pirate enhances your game, give up some cargo (Maybe consider it 'payment for entertainment'). Otherwise either try and leave, or try and fight.
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Example 1.
Pirate stops trader, complains on coms that trader's wares are destined for dictatorial regime which means large sectors are going seriously short on basic supplies. Asks trader to drop whatever cargo to aid in equality. Trader drops cargo, wishes pirate luck, both leave.
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Example 2.
Pirate stops trader, demands trader stop for scan, trader complies. Pirate just demands trader drops 5 out of 7 rares or trader dies. Trader has no reason to want to give pirate anything, thinks 'Stuff this for a packet of biscuits, I can make the money back in an hour on this, here's to increasing your bounty, pal!', opens fire and gets destroyed.
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Which do the pirates think is the better outcome FOR THEM! The one where they make a reasonable case and get some cargo, or the one where they are forced to destroy a trader? [Hint: It's the less violent option.]
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I only object when someone playing as a pirate destroys my enjoyment of the game just to enhance theirs, like they havge a greater right to enjoy the game than I do. Destroying players for no good reason annoys people, and will only end up pushing trading (Which you can't do out on the rim) into solo, or will end up oushing the traders into changing into explorers. And I don't believe that the majority of pirates want that to happen.
 
And as to the greed of pirates, there are some in another thread saying the cargo limit should be raised to 100T. Basically, they want half a T7 because otherwise "It isn't profitable" for them! If I lose my current T7, it's 1.2MCr insurance, and about the same in lost cargo. I make around 200KCr per run in profit on a cargo cost of up to 1.4MCr. IF I lose half of that cargo in a single run, I have to work for another 3/4Hr just to get back to where I was - with no guarantee that I won't get pirated again in that time. If I lose the ship, I'm down a couple of hours.
100 tons is 20% of a type 9, that's probably why they want it so high. 20% is usually my sweet spot when it comes to what I ask for. Sometimes I ask for less sometimes more, if they have less than a full hold.

I would ask for 40-50 from a type 7, at least I would if there wasnt a stupid 20 ton cap.......
 
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100 tons is 20% of a type 9, that's probably why they want it so high. 20% is usually my sweet spot when it comes to what I ask for. Sometimes I ask for less sometimes more, if they have less than a full hold.

I would ask for 40-50 from a type 7, at least I would if there wasnt a stupid 20 ton cap.......
Which is why I suggested that, except if it causes a problem around stations - which is obviously NOT anything to do with pirates - then it ought to be set as a % of cargo carried.
 
I think Pirates should only ask for the amount of cargo that will fill their hold, why ask for more?!!
this is what I find a bit pointless in the Piracy game! perhaps a Pirate would enlighten me! only in a wing
is there any reason to ask for more for the wingmen.
 
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