Piracy is Broken by 1.3

[Agony_Aunt]

I don't see any other option. I've never killed randomly or without a reason before.

I've not played since beta hoping FD would change this. Since the official word is "it's intentional" then I don't see any other way to get fd's attention.

I've played for over 1000 hours and was always in the game for the long haul but I'm not going to stand by and let FD ruin my chosen profession with a badly thought out bug fix.

That sends two messages: 1) An unfavourable one to the players you kill. It will get you a bad reputuation as a player. Do you want that? 2) To the devs who will most likely, overreact (like with the current situation) and it will result in something else you will find objectionable.

Reasoned posts and responses are more likely to get a positive reaction from FD that doing something silly.

 

[GluttonyFang]

They obviously don't play the game like players do so they just picked a number that their shoddy p2p architecture could handle in stations and went with that.

A problem FD will probably never admit to or improve on...

 

[Darkphoenix]

I'm unemployed, at the end of my rope. Backed into a corner I have nowhere to go. I have a gun in my hand. What do I do with it? I'll shoot my way out, that's what! Muahahahhahahahhahahahahaha.

I don't care if it is childish or not. I play to have fun. Piracy is fun. FD has killed my fun. So now I have to find a new way to have fun. And killing other people... well that can be fun... too. So, I don't think I'm being childish at all. I'm just looking for a new way to have fun. It's emergent gameplay! Isn't that what Elite is all about?

Well if the show fits then wear it, just don't cry when you all end up with 2 left shoes. Your little demonstration could just as easily backfire and make things worse......when people get fed up with random killing maybe open will be killed completely and THAT truly would be a shame and tragic.

 

[Mr_Blastman]

Well if the show fits then wear it, just don't cry when you all end up with 2 left shoes. Your little demonstration could just as easily backfire and make things worse......when people get fed up with random killing maybe open will be killed completely and THAT truly would be a shame and tragic.

Too bad, so sad. It would suck. But, well, that's life.

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That sends two messages: 1) An unfavourable one to the players you kill. It will get you a bad reputuation as a player. Do you want that? 2) To the devs who will most likely, overreact (like with the current situation) and it will result in something else you will find objectionable.

Reasoned posts and responses are more likely to get a positive reaction from FD that doing something silly.

Normally that's the case but FD has REPEATEDLY replied to our cries with, "Sorry, the 20 tons is intended. k thx, bai."

How do you think that makes us feel?

 

[Distance]

That sends two messages: 1) An unfavourable one to the players you kill. It will get you a bad reputuation as a player. Do you want that? 2) To the devs who will most likely, overreact (like with the current situation) and it will result in something else you will find objectionable.

Reasoned posts and responses are more likely to get a positive reaction from FD that doing something silly.

OP posted a bunch of well reasoned posts and there's tons of them on reddit as well. This has stopped my gameplay since beta, how long should we be willing to sit twiddling our thumbs writing "Dear Sir or Madam" polite posts to FD?

A problem FD will probably never admit to or improve on...

That's the whole problem, the p2p architecture is the root cause of the bug/griefing tactic that they "fixed". It only happens in station instances but "could" happen in res or combat zones. Since piracy never happens in these instances then player made instances should be exempt from the fix. It's really that simple.

 

[GluttonyFang]

Well if the show fits then wear it, just don't cry when you all end up with 2 left shoes. Your little demonstration could just as easily backfire and make things worse......when people get fed up with random killing maybe open will be killed completely and THAT truly would be a shame and tragic.

Uh with all due respect, Open is currently littered with combat logging trash and complaining carebears. I really cannot see it being any worse. Plus, it's like traders claim to self-destruct in the face of pirates, we are claiming to help people self-destruct in our presence if this issue does not get the attention of FD.

(I am still not keen about opening firing on random traders, but I can assure you that piracy syndicates are quite frustrated by this change and are considering a revision to principles/standards we follow if FD does not give a proper answer to such a profession breaking issue.)

 

[Commanderhumpster]

Like many others not a pirate but this does sound crazy.

 

[GluttonyFang]

OP posted a bunch of well reasoned posts and there's tons of them on reddit as well. This has stopped my gameplay since beta, how long should we be willing to sit twiddling our thumbs writing "Dear Sir or Madam" polite posts to FD?

Precisely, and if a method does not work (the polite kind), then we must change our approach.

If patting someone on the back and politely tell said individual about what one needs to improve on does not work, then we will just have to spank the said individual in the face and straighten things up.

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Like many others not a pirate but this does sound crazy.

Thank you for understanding our suffering.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

OP posted a bunch of well reasoned posts and there's tons of them on reddit as well. This has stopped my gameplay since beta, how long should we be willing to sit twiddling our thumbs writing "Dear Sir or Madam" polite posts to FD?

Erm... since beta which was just a few weeks ago? Perhaps a little more patience could be cultivated. Intentionally ruining other people's days because you are not happy with something is not going to get FD to change their minds you know..at least not change their minds for the better.

 

[Darkphoenix]

Uh with all due respect, Open is currently littered with combat logging trash and complaining carebears. I really cannot see it being any worse. Plus, it's like traders claim to self-destruct in the face of pirates, we are claiming to help people self-destruct in our presence if this issue does not get the attention of FD.

(I am still not keen about opening firing on random traders, but I can assure you that piracy syndicates are quite frustrated by this change and are considering a revision to principles/standards we follow if FD does not give a proper answer to such a profession breaking issue.)

I see those that claim to want to blow themselves up rather than give a reasonable amount of cargo as being radicals as well albeit on the other end of the spectrum. Acting like a radical is not the best nor most efficient way of getting others to understand your viewpoint nor a likely way to get support for your grievance.

 

[Bearcat]

That's the thing we've already tried numerous threads since beta started and after. As for withholding support for the game, I've already bought premium beta, the expansion passes, ship skins and multiple hotas so I'm pretty much invested in the game's future and there's no way to withdraw my support for the game as FD already have my money.

I've personally played every profession in the game for hundreds of hours the only thing that interests me right now is piracy and it was the only reason why I was still playing.

The problem is that there's no logic to FD's decision and it's a really badly thought out byg fix. If there was some logic behind the change or transparency, remeber they didn't even include the "fix" in any of the changelogs, we'd have more faith in getting a reply or a change from FD on the matter.

The problem is that a lot of people don't care about piracy and here on the official forum there's actual hatred towards the professions so getting a large amount of people outside of the profession to campaign for a change to bring back piracy would be like getting blood out of a stone.

Whilst it is awful the only way to force fd's hand is to show the community what the game would be like without legitimate piracy and that would unfortunately be groups of players randomly pking.

1.3 was supposed to bring hope to piracy but instead it's killing it.


This does not reflect well on FD
View attachment 43983

I'm a software engineer myself and I am seeing clear evidence that FD has no guiding principles whatsoever with respect to game design. From what I see it appears they are making things up on the fly. The 1.3 release has been a complete unmitigated disaster on multiple levels. Releasing 1.3 with so many bugs is absolutely inexcusable in my opinion. It should be rolled back.

 

[GluttonyFang]

I see those that claim to want to blow themselves up rather than give a reasonable amount of cargo as being radicals as well albeit on the other end of the spectrum. Acting like a radical is not the best nor most efficient way of getting others to understand your viewpoint nor a likely way to get support for your grievance.

And FD did not perform a radical change to spark a chain-reaction?

Oh no of course it did not.

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I'm a software engineer myself and I am seeing clear evidence that FD has no guiding principles whatsoever with respect to game design. From what I see it appears they are making things up on the fly. The 1.3 release has been a complete unmitigated disaster on multiple levels. Releasing 1.3 with so many bugs is absolutely inexcusable in my opinion. It should be rolled back.

While I do enjoy 1.3 other than the bug and this inexcusable change to kill off piracy, it is definitely something not ready for release...

 

[Darkphoenix]

And FD did not perform a radical change to spark a chain-reaction?

Oh no of course it did not.

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While I do enjoy 1.3 other than the bug and this inexcusable change to kill off piracy, it is definitely something not ready for release...

So in your opinion, two wrongs make a right then? Whenever FD does something that aggravates a portion of the player base the correct course of action is to take the frustration out on another one to show them who really is boss? That is some really backwards thinking imo.

 

[GluttonyFang]

So in your opinion, two wrongs make a right then? Whenever FD does something that aggravates a portion of the player base the correct course of action is to take the frustration out on another one to show them who really is boss? That is some really backwards thinking imo.

First of all, there is no objective right and wrong, thus leads us to subjectivity/intersubjectivity. Therefore, what FD did to us was wrong, and our retaliation is righteous in relative terms, both the polite methodology and the not so-polite one.

If FD wanted, they can shut down their game right now. If you do not clearly define what semantic utilization you are assigning to the word "boss," don't use it.

Yes, let's start the ad hominem game.

I don't like and disagree with your train of thought, you must have some really backward thinking, imo.

 

[DaveB]

I'm a software engineer myself and I am seeing clear evidence that FD has no guiding principles whatsoever with respect to game design. From what I see it appears they are making things up on the fly. The 1.3 release has been a complete unmitigated disaster on multiple levels. Releasing 1.3 with so many bugs is absolutely inexcusable in my opinion. It should be rolled back.

While I'm not a pirate myself, I'm on their side with respect to this issue (although, in fairness I have to say I've never been asked for more than 20t when I've been pirated) However comments like this are pure hyperbole and unconstructive. Regarding bugs, compared to other game titles FD have a better track record than most for both frequency of bugs and their responsiveness to them. We're not talking about a bug here anyway, we're talking about a design decision. As you'll know from your professional experience these are often worse to fix than bugs because by the time they become an issue they are often well baked into the code.

It definitely does need fixing though - if they have to have a hard cap for technical reasons at least double it to 40, 20 is a ridiculously low limit given the capacity of many ships in the game.

 

[GluttonyFang]

I admit to reading only the first page, so apologies if this has been raised before.

In earlier thread always the claim was: we only ask a small tonnage, so the trader doesn't lose that much and still can make a profit. Us pirates are not that bad.

If this is true, does the OP's complaint reveal that the humble requests of pirates are a result only from scooping speed? That given the opportunity, they would have requested a lot more cargo to be dropped, and that the sentiment expressed in earlier threads was simply puppiecops?

My complaint directs only at the cargo limitation for piracy. The amount my syndicate and I request depends solely on the size of the prey, the value and quantity of said prey's cargo. Thus, our focus is still to ensure that we request for a reasonable amount of goods, not a forced decision due to scooping speed.

I am certain that other pirates share the sentiment that if we ask for all cargo a prey carries, the said prey will find trading on the said route unprofitable and leave, which is bad for business.

 

[GluttonyFang]

Yeah, take it out on the traders. They're the guilty party.

If we accept the assumption that traders do get the most attention, then disrupting said group is indeed the most effective way to gain attention.

Indeed, traders are not guilty (completely anyway), but they are the most effective instrument to gain attention from FD, unfortunately.

My word. The lack of empathy is astounding.

I sincerely hope this statement was caused by a temporary raise in blood pressure.

Pirates aren't exactly known for having good temperament, I am an odd breed yet still feel quite angered by this implicit killing of piracy done by FD.

I'm certain if traders suddenly get only 5 commodities to trade with only 50 supplies each with only one of them being profitable, they will stir up an even greater storm.

 

[Muffindrake]

Operation Scorched Earth

Count me in. This [expletive deleted] shall not stand. FDev has killed one out of three activities inside the game that I thoroughly enjoy.

If this is true, does the OP's complaint reveal that the humble requests of pirates are a result only from scooping speed?

Quantities up to 40 are low enough to be scooped by an individual without drones. With drones more is possible, which is exactly what they were supposed to enable. We could scoop more cargo and could thus make more money than before. If only this illogical limit wasn't there. 1.3 was a glimmer of hope for seasoned pirates, so far only enraging incompetence on FDev's part has been observable.

That given the opportunity, they would have requested a lot more cargo to be dropped, and that the sentiment expressed in earlier threads was simply puppiecops?

It was generally the case that ships bigger than a T6 (and even that ship) were requested to drop a far greater amount than 20, especially when wing piracy was in action. The loss a trader suffers from such a single encounter is still a joke compared to the amount of money he/she makes.

I am certain that other pirates share the sentiment that if we ask for all cargo a prey carries, the said prey will find trading on the said route unprofitable and leave, which is bad for business.

+1

 

[Muffindrake]

Ends justify means.

Gotcha.

Keep in mind you are essentially arguing with morals against people that conduct an amoral profession.

 

[GluttonyFang]

Ends justify means.

Gotcha.

I am a consequentialist, in case you haven't noticed.

Yeah. Nothing you can do about it really. Your hands are tied.

Sorry traders, they have no choice. In fact, they are the real victims from your deaths.

I don't see what is wrong with choosing the most effective option.

Luckily it seems it can be countered by explicit killing.

It seems that you are making a categorical mistake, killing piracy does not kill pirates. People with the disposition and intention of enacting piracy can easily recreate piracy (in a much more bloody way if necessary, something not healthy to the community, at all).

Also, piracy is an advertised portion of the game, if FD kills it off after implicitly damaging it, I think we have a case of false advertisement.

Greater than killing indiscriminately?

You mean they'd be so immoral they'd even go on strike?

Whining, of course, which when gathered in forces, rivals, or exceeds in-game indiscriminate killing.

Players that choose the profession of piracy lie in minority, though, thus the latter is more effective.