The Powerplay discussion thread.

SkipRat

SkipRat
titan_uk said:
I totally agree with the OP. Me and my mates should be able to flip a system in minutes (ignoring the fact that it is probably linked to (possibly) hundreds of others and other players/NPCs are opposing us), then we should be able to go on and flip another then another and another....I'm sure if we were able to do that we wouldn't get bored and QQ moah

Also, I want to make money dammit! so I go backwards and forwards trading from one port to the next over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over......and it's boring!! fix this game because this repetitive grind sucks..why can't I be a multi-millionaire in 3 days? If there was only some other way to enjoy the game....
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I was about slate you... Then I felt the massively heavy dose of sarcasm.

For me personally, I feel, that PP is not a disaster, but it is also far from a roaring success too. At the moment it is unbalanced, needs to be restricted to open play and generally needs improving. As my friend said. A way of using Rank levelled missions issued in stations to bring the game back to the player would be helpful, rather than making the it feel like you a spec of dirt in a large cog. "Congratulations, you, along with 10,000 other players managed to do something good a few minutes ago"... They need to bring back the personal feeling that you as an individual is achieving something on Power Play. At least with rank levelled missions issued at station, they feel personal to you, and allows newer players to simpler missions to help out, whilst the older more experienced players can do the harder tougher ones....

But the idea behind PP is obvious, it was a compromise for players who like PVP to go at each other, with a bit of added depth and tactics and keep people busy whilst they developed the rest of the game. Remember people, there are years of development still to come and I am tired of seeing people cry like babies, because something is not immediately perfect.

So I completely agree with your sentiments and just goes to show spoilt and lazy we have become.
 
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Sylow

Sylow
During the Beta phase, there were numerous threads and suggestions on how to salvage the current implementation of PP and turn it into a positive experience. They were between small fixes and a complete rework. Neither of them was used, though, instead the decission was made to roll it out in the version which generally was rejected by the testers. (I smell the heavy stench of marketing and sales being the deciding force here... yuck! )

Quality development looks different. The much needed improvements are now very hard to implement after this bad foundation has been rolled out, instead of taking one or another week to address issues before rolling it out. My confidence that PP will ever be turned into really good gameplay is low, but hey, just like in any other business, there can be a huge rework of what always was bad, despite when launched it was declared to be the greatest thing in a few years. So, actual good PP probably is scheduled for 2019?
 
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Coyote

C
It's always a "vocal minority". A politician's most simple excuse. "The silent crowd supports me."
 
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StephenB

StephenB
Sylow said:
During the Beta phase, there were numerous threads and suggestions on how to salvage the current implementation of PP and turn it into a positive experience. They were between small fixes and a complete rework. Neither of them was used, though, instead the decission was made to roll it out in the version which generally was rejected by the testers. (I smell the heavy stench of marketing and sales being the deciding force here... yuck! )

Quality development looks different. The much needed improvements are now very hard to implement after this bad foundation has been rolled out, instead of taking one or another week to address issues before rolling it out. My confidence that PP will ever be turned into really good gameplay is low, but hey, just like in any other business, there can be a huge rework of what always was bad, despite when launched it was declared to be the greatest thing in a few years. So, actual good PP probably is scheduled for 2019?
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I don't understand why FD won't extend the Beta testing period and/or allow more players to participate. It would solve a lot of the problems we have now.
 

Hilight

Hilight
Moosegun said:
What I dont understand is why some many people seem to think;

a/ if you do PP you need to grind to tier 5 in the first month
b/ if you do PP you are obliged to only do PP activities

I find just dipping in and out around my normal gameplay is just fine. Made enough credits for rank 3, could get to 4 if I wanted but will only do so if I fancy it. I never sit and wait for items to refresh, instead I run a trade route or got bounty hunting between pickups. If I am in the area of an opposing faction during my travels I might pop in and earn 100 merits killing 6-7 ships then continue, then again I might not bother.

I REALLY hope they improve the mechanics, I think it is a long way from where it can go, but I do feel it have made the game more interesting. It only becomes a real grind, if you grind it.

Also there are plenty of bounties to be had doing missions, I must have pulled in 2 mill today and only did them for an hour or so, infact including PP bonus make that 3mil.
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Well said. R+ for you. Personally, for awhile I was doing rare runs in an Asp intermixed with getting merits. Later I switched to my Python, made a couple more million in trading and then bought a bunch of merits with the money. I've reached level 3 now for next week and I think I'll stop there for a while before going up to level 4. I'm in no hurry
 
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Parmo

Parmo
I'd like to hear the voices of the Powerplay leaders

I was just musing about Powerplay and it struck me that I can only read about the leaders on Galnet news.
Don't they give interviews on radio? Do not they have hordes of PR wanting to 'sell' their masters' voices?
I'd love to hear them give speeches and interviews.
Wouldn't you?
It would make a real connection from a Commander to the leader of their cause.
There are Elite radio stations such as Lave Radio and Radio Sidewinder that would give, I'd bet, their dentures to broadcast speeches and interviews of these important characters.
And one merit could be that if a Commander, or group of Commanders, had demonstrated, by actions, a very deep and strong loyalty, they might get mentioned in dispatches and by their leader.
[]
One can but dream.
[]
Any wanna be voice actors up for it - on the cheap?:)
 

HeimdallofHavn

H
Parmo said:
I was just musing about Powerplay and it struck me that I can only read about the leaders on Galnet news.
Don't they give interviews on radio? Do not they have hordes of PR wanting to 'sell' their masters' voices?
I'd love to hear them give speeches and interviews.
Wouldn't you?
It would make a real connection from a Commander to the leader of their cause.
There are Elite radio stations such as Lave Radio and Radio Sidewinder that would give, I'd bet, their dentures to broadcast speeches and interviews of these important characters.
And one merit could be that if a Commander, or group of Commanders, had demonstrated, by actions, a very deep and strong loyalty, they might get mentioned in dispatches and by their leader.
[]
One can but dream.
[]
Any wanna be voice actors up for it - on the cheap?:)
Click to expand...

I think it is a great idea, and I think it's past time that Elite moved into the multimedia age in more ways than one...
 

DAJS

DAJS
I am an independent pilot since the first Alpha and want to remain so... I also want my home system to remain independent. I love watching things happening around me in the galaxy and like that my actions can affect them in some small way.

However, PP does not seem to support that action. I can find no way to prevent a power expanding into my system without having to pledge to an opposing power which I do not want to do (even temporarily). Therefore PP is broken for me as an independent player and I now find my enthusiasm for the game faltering for the first time. I even found myself going solo for the very first time as the increased PvP conflict that PP promotes got very tedious very quickly, something I swore I would never do.

I echo the comments that having implemented PP in this form (effectively adding the classic turn-based board game 'RISK' to the ED universe in my view) it will be very difficult for Frontier to reverse it out or implement the significant changes required for it to cater for all types of players. I wonder how the powers will react to any form of Thargoid invasion for example? Oh let's wait a week for the results of the actions??? Not quite a sim is it.

I do recognize that they have put a huge amount of effort into programming PP - just the galaxy map changes alone are impressive. Yet I can't help but have just a little bit of sadness and disappointment for the change of direction from my original hope and vision for 'an Elite for the 21st century'.
 
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cluelessforumuser65578

cluelessforumuser65578
it just took me 1m 10s to collect 20 tonnes using 2 3a collector limpets, thats 4 drones total. if they increase the max cargo in an instance back up or not i dont see what the problem is.
 

Krepose Gavayne

Krepose Gavayne
How to draw me into PowerPlay whilst still ignoring what it presently offers

I thought of a change to the game (not PowerPlay itself) which would lead to a richer gaming experience (IMHO) and not alter what PP has already introduced. If this change was brought in I thought it could persuade me or others to pledge allegiance. It is a long post so I've split it into sections so you can choose to read sections or ignore them.

It revolves around the idea of having privileged access to accurate information (which I'll call intel), and it can be achieved using relatively simple calculations (from the existing procedural generation of system data). I acknowledge that some adjustments have already been made to NPCs and zones in the game (e.g. the intended RES changes) but what I propose should build upon it in a broader way and be a bit better than 'one size fits all'. One could say that I'm proposing another balancing factor.

BACKGROUND [you can skip this bit as it does not pertain to the idea itself]:
I haven't yet pledged as I don't see any attraction to PowerPlay at present. I feel no desire to side with some cardboard cutout character or his/her paper thin 'cause'. I'm not dismissing the whole notion of what PP could represent or establish as regards worthwhile gaming, but to me, as it is currently implemented, it is not what I want out of ED. One may as well provide the different Powers with images of vegetables rather than people as far as I am concerned; they'd have as much depth of character and personal history.

IDEA:
My idea is simply to adjust how the internal security is calculated, allowing it to affect spawning and market values, whilst restricting the information within the game maps. Although the calculations would apply to every inhabited system, this would not be comprehensively visible. The reasoning behind it is that knowledge is not universally available but it is often 'intelligence' based.

A real life analogy is that my country does not have ambassadors in every other country, nor expats, nor military detachments. Sometimes we glean information about other nations from reports of travellers, refugees, global charitable organisations or our allies. However, for our own country (and let's use crime as the example) we know better than anyone. We have access to all police statistics, budgetary constraints, procurement plans, staffing requirements, crimes committed, etc..

In short, we know more about our own territories than foreign places, and vice versa.

SCOPE:
So, my idea is that we can select Security Level as a filter in the Galaxy Map and the System Map can display more useful information. The amount & validity of that information is based upon the Power to whom you have pledged (as you will gain access to their intel). In the Galaxy Map only your Power's sphere of influence and its associated Major Faction Powers' spheres will show (so if in the Empire's area of space you will be able to see the imperial Powers' territories), whilst systems not controlled by these Powers would be marked as uncertain in the Galaxy Map (maybe "Unverified"). If you venture into foreign territory you venture into the unknown, in the sense that you cannot be certain what is there, although it should be possible to judge the security level from the other System Map information.

We have all seen politicians lie through their teeth ("We do not have a crime problem", "Our citizens are all well fed", "The invading force is nothing to worry about and our armies will crush them!"), and we all know that some countries exist which are very safe and stable to the point of requiring little police manpower. Whatever the foreign system state portrays as fact might not be entirely accurate, and Low, Medium and High do not obviously portray why this is the case.

This means there are two different levels of intel to which you, as a pledged player, will be privy:
1) Pledged Power & Associated Powers = Galaxy Map L/M/H value; a detailed level in System Map.
2) Non-Pledged Power and non-aligned Systems = Unverified value in GalMap; no detailed level in SysMap (just what we have now).

The detail of which I speak is provided in this example as three bits of text in brackets after the L/M/H which is also expanded to show an extra degree of accuracy where it is warranted. The bracketed information displays the three scaling elements which when combined provide the L/M/H rating: i) how many cops (i.e. security forces) the system employs; ii) how competent they are; iii) how well equipped they are.

Some example security levels (and the wording's open to debate):
Very Low [few; poorly trained; poorly equipped]
Low [moderately staffed; well trained; poorly equipped]
Medium [few; highly trained; adequately equipped]
Medium [many; poorly trained; well equipped]
High [moderately staffed; highly trained & well equipped]
Very High [many; highly trained & well equipped]

The way values are determined is based upon the system geographies and economies. High Tech & Military systems have better equipment, but not necessarily enough space rozzers. A rich extraction system might be able to afford to pay the salaries for a lot of cops, but not be able equip them with the ships and weapons that they deserve. A highly populated system which is not rich would still have sufficient infrastructure for its populace that the training schemes would be exceptionally good, but the money for high-spec ships and their upkeep does not exist. A system with just two stations right next to the POE (Point Of Entry) star can have fewer cops yet still be well policed. A system with the same quantity of cops but with its stations several thousand Ls from the POE star is not going to be as well policed. Another system with many stations would require a lot more cops to go around (it's no point being the biggest and mightiest if you aren't at the crime scene to deliver justice). Each system is therefore provided with a personalised security level which also alters its worth. You shall be able to decide whether or not a system is safe for you to enter, and judge for yourself what "Medium" really means.

It will not prevent some PP players from having a 5th column member choosing to pledge with a rival faction so that they can select a soft target in which to extend their true Power's influence, but that is just as it should be, as we use spies IRL too. This occurrence would have no bearing on my idea and how it would affect people who do not want to grind away for a Power goal.

Also, as the way a security level is assessed is known, you can choose not to pledge but still join up the dots yourself. Pledging would mean that you gain access to intelligence within an area of inhabited space which could make your chosen career path an easier one. Even if you don't pledge you won't have to pay any heed to the detailed information if you don't want, but as an outsider you limit the information at your finger tips.

REQUIREMENTS:
There is no need to alter the already provided RES or CZ variations, but NavBeacons, and routine travel through a system would be affected. The idea falls flat on its face unless the security rating for different systems actually delivers what is stated. The scaling would have to account for the four separate variables: wealth of system; business model of system; system population; physical size/spread of system. The three scaled level elements would then need to model how the security forces are spawned: greater numbers of cops means mores wings and/or faster arrival times; better training means better tactics and higher rankings; better equipped means an increased chance of meeting bigger ships, or simply cops with bigger guns.

The scaling should not be so rigid as to exclude seeing an Anaconda in a Low Security system, it would just be rare, as it might be the only one the system owns and it might be poorly equipped or piloted. Of course, the other side of the coin must be delivered with the NPC pirates. A system with many cops should see pirates appear in wings, whereas lone pirates would be drawn to systems with relatively few cops, and so forth.

The way the security level is displayed in the GalMap would need to be graphical, not just the word listed at the bottom of the info tab. By having it graphically displayed (with size of dot or colour) would help when plotting a route or picking the right systems to visit to buy/sell items, or those to avoid if shieldless and carrying valuable exploration data. It could be in the top menu (where Government is) or the bottom one (where Population is).

EXTENDED BENEFITS:
This will allow non-PP players who still want to RP a Major Faction lifestyle to feel that such a thing has not been ripped from the game. Those players who do not want to participate in PP goals could still enjoy group activities. Mercenaries and assassins could see higher mission profits from helping to police any dangerous neighbouring systems (as mission rewards should be scaled), which would benefit traders playing in Open. More trade routes would see fighting Commanders winging up to protect traders, whilst miners would do likewise (as profit and danger go hand in hand). Players will know what to expect from the criminals (at least they will with regard to NPCs) so it might lead to tailoring ship configurations for intended trading routes or mining areas. Explorers could plan the safest route through inhabited space, thereby weighing up whether or not they absolutely need weapons or if they should A-rate their Life Support in case they get jumped on at the last hurdle when homeward bound.

In-system commodity prices could be scaled up and down slightly to reflect a system's neighbourhood, which would in turn generate a more vibrant galactic economy and make markets appear less generic. For example, if the averaged security level of all systems within 10Ly is High then sale prices are correspondingly lower, as it is less dangerous to ship in the items, with the degree of scaling matching the derived average security level. If the averaged neighbourhood security level is Very Low, then this could cause the system stations to cut their prices by up to, say, 15% (?) to entice more traders there to buy the goods produced.

When passengers are introduced the Orca (and Dolphin?) owners would see higher payments for taking passengers to Tourism systems which are bordered by Low level security systems. This in turn could temporarily increase the insurance cost if we extrapolate the way game variables affect each other, as taking such a mission would mean that failure incurs a greater penalty (perhaps ship destruction means passengers are delayed, die or are sold into slavery, so recompense is due to them or their families & businesses). Whatever, my point is that by changing one part of the game now, we would see immediate benefits for how some players want to play the game with the possibility for other benefits if we follow the same approach.
 

Mengy

Mengy
CommanderRyder said:
After 3 days of power play, it does look like most of our club is about to throw in the towel for this one.

A total grind, where you have to get tickets, even buy them like most of us have, costing millions, to get nothing in return. Bounties have been slashed, why I do not know, with Res sites now dry and small bounties that are not worth fighting for... It has put most of us in the mind of, get the top tier to get our credits back, then quit. Go do normal stuff that we like doing.

A complete lack of game play, is now what power play is all about! Sitting in docks waiting for a timer, or go shoot a ship to get one merit!!! ONE MERIT!!! Boy this sounds depressing already.

I have a new slogan for Elite, Play Elite, we give you a long piece of rope! YOU WILL NEED IT!!!

Total boredom has taken control of this game, Elite used to be great, but now power play has ruined it for most of our club commanders.

If any of you have not taken part in power play yet, here is a tip for you, do not bother!!!! You will lose credits, not make them... When other faction NPC's attack you get 400 credits for the kill, considering most of us put 30 million into the first part of the system, as you can clearly see it really is not worth it.

One of our founders is so bored of it, he has gone mining!!!! :eek: That is how bored he has become. The second stage I thought would be great, but the rewards for doing it, its just not worth doing at all!

This will be tough to get to the 50 million, that I am now owed. But once I do, that will be it. Then I will go off exploring, because this is not the game I signed up for in Beta... Not at all. Such a shame.
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The solution is easy and it's what I'm doing: just, stay neutral, and keep playing the way we did before Power Play.

For most of us the appeal of the game is blazing our own path, flying as space entrepreneurs, doing our own thing to scrape a credit or two and making our living in this vast galaxy. That's always been the appeal and draw of every Elite game. Power Play, while intriguing, doesn't really add anything that contributes to that, in fact it goes against that by allowing us to join a fleet who flies for someone else's goals rather than our own. I bought this game to play a modern Elite, not a watered down version of Eve Online.

That said, it might be possible to tweak PP to make it more attractive and lucrative to the casual player or even the entrepreneur style players, but as it sits now PP isn't meant for either of them. It's a political money sink that caters to the rich combat people but ignores or hinders every other style of player. In fact it will probably chase many of them out of open and into solo. I think they were trying to make the galaxy seem more alive or interactive, but they missed the mark IMHO. Most players are better off staying out of Power Play, and that means they failed terribly in their attempt with 1.3.
 
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EUS

EUS
20T seems more than ok.
Gold @ 10K, palladium @ 13k = 200,000 - 270,000K simply for interdicting equals the whole profit for me running 280T of Palladium.
I don't see a problem.
 
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