A writer's thoughts on 'PowerPlay' - Drew Wagar

drew

drew
Parmo said:
It does surprise! But it explains the incoherent mess of Elite Lore: Galnet news, official fiction (characters & events), and Powerplay.
No integration, no strategic idea or plan for creating a long term vision and Elite Universe that players can imagine themselves in and feel immersed in when they sit down and live it.
But, I feel Elite Dangerous is in a state that reflects the opinions, attitudes, desires and tension of this forum. These tensions seems to have seeped into the development team of ED and consequently into the game.
Do you not sense it as an experienced IT manager?
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I've no idea what the internal organisation of Frontier is like. The Frontier staff I've met at conventions seem happy enough to me, though I've only met a handful.

In terms of the lore, I agree it could be a lot more consistent and co-ordinated than it is.

Cheers,

Drew.

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HeimdallofHavn said:
If you read this Drew,

Is it ok if I use your suggestions (properly attributed of course) in a future post about potential PP improvements?
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My blog is 'free to air'. As long as you attribute it, that's fine.

Cheers,

Drew.
 
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HeimdallofHavn

H
drew said:
I've no idea what the internal organisation of Frontier is like. The Frontier staff I've met at conventions seem happy enough to me, though I've only met a handful.

In terms of the lore, I agree it could be a lot more consistent and co-ordinated than it is.

Cheers,

Drew.

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My blog is 'free to air'. As long as you attribute it, that's fine.

Cheers,

Drew.
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Cool, will do.

btw, also nice to meet another person who also ends their internet posting with "cheers"

Cheers :)
 

Raidiant

R
Couldn't have said it better myself...I never noticed the diversity issue. Maybe all the slaves are of darker skin like GOT...

I feel the powers are interesting, its just the actual play of powerplay is pretty boring.
 

CMDR Derrida

C
"The PowerPlay characters are currently completely flat and two dimensional. In short, there’s nothing much to care about at the moment". I agree, but I think they could rectify this by actively changing the stories behind characters on a, perhaps, monthly basis. I.e., I found it a little frustrating that there did not appear to be a faction for outsiders, pirates, anarchists, etc. Archon Delaine reflects more the kind of organised slaver/mafia boss that ruins so many modern narratives. For instance, I very much looked forward to the new series about bikers, Son's of Anarchy, as I like the whole beatnik/piracy/freedom of the road kind of thing, but all the gun-running mafiosa stuff just left me with the feeling it should have been called, Sons of Conformity.
What I think has happened here is that perhaps the creators are taking on too much of a role, and despite the 80's game having been a perfectly made 'thing' following on from perhaps one of the most exciting times in science (space-race, moon landing) and science fiction (star wars, blade-runner), second time around they should have consulted more with designers, writers, artists, rather than go too much with a single idea. It does feel, as you point out, like they've lifted the template for Thrones to cash in on a current trend, whereas perhaps they should have tried to look for the 'next thing'. Welcome to the desert of the real....still think it's the best game ever though :)
 

HeimdallofHavn

H
Raidiant said:
Couldn't have said it better myself...I never noticed the diversity issue. Maybe all the slaves are of darker skin like GOT...

I feel the powers are interesting, its just the actual play of powerplay is pretty boring.
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Imperial slaves are generally the same as the rest of Imperial society whether black or blue. It is essentially debt slaves who by declaring bankruptsy get to work off their debts for a number of years to then become a free citizen again. Indentured servitude.
 

Cmdr Eagleboy

Cmdr Eagleboy
Well, it seems that lot of people have misunderstood what FD is going for here. My problem is that everything has to be explained with numbers and visual indicators - but I guess that's requirement of modern games, as people don't like having no control or visual indication what's going on. This fact alone makes game feel a more 'gamey', but still doesn't bother me much. I am undecided on merits - I understand ladder principle in both CG and PP, but I am not entirely sold on them. There's need to be small bonuses of on providing favors for power while staying outside.

I personally don't feel anything about ED going wrong direction. Outside PP, 1.3 finally start to make sense, finally it is more about consequences - bounties, NPC AI, etc. etc. Yes, I will probably try PP but I don't see it playing for very long time - as I am not faction fan in nutshell - but I don't see why it can't be in ED.

Said that, I can echo lot of sentiment regarding things "missing" for me in ED...but I see PP as one of final foundation blocks (regarding background sim). It will get refined, improved, tuned. It will get better.
 
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HeimdallofHavn

H
Pecisk said:
Well, it seems that lot of people have misunderstood what FD is going for here. My problem is that everything has to be explained with numbers and visual indicators - but I guess that's requirement of modern games, as people don't like having no control or visual indication what's going on. This fact alone makes game feel a more 'gamey', but still doesn't bother me much. I am undecided on merits - I understand ladder principle in both CG and PP, but I am not entirely sold on them. There's need to be small bonuses of on providing favors for power while staying outside.

I personally don't feel anything about ED going wrong direction. Outside PP, 1.3 finally start to make sense, finally it is more about consequences - bounties, NPC AI, etc. etc. Yes, I will probably try PP but I don't see it playing for very long time - as I am not faction fan in nutshell - but I don't see why it can't be in ED.

Said that, I can echo lot of sentiment regarding things "missing" for me in ED...but I see PP as one of final foundation blocks (regarding background sim). It will get refined, improved, tuned. It will get better.
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Pecisk,

I would be interested in your views on this thread:

To those that do not understand what Powerplay adds to the game.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=156314

Cheers :)
 

Schmack

Schmack
"PowerPlay makes you a cog in someone else’s mission." -OP

Precisely. PC gaming, this kind (at least for me) is about controlling my adventure based on how I feel today, not based on a laundry list. I have IRL lists to get done, gaming is about whim and fancy and "what happens if I do this?".

Where you say "just ignore PP and ...." (paraphrasing), you really can't. It's presence is felt even if you're not pledged. You must participate if you play. Sure you can be a savvy trader and look for deals but for what? You'll get more Cr to play a game you don't want to play. It's like doing cocaine so you can work more so you can make more money so you can do more cocaine. Why not just do cocaine for fun? Too expensive... (not promoting cocaine, just a bad analogy).
 
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Cmdr Eagleboy

Cmdr Eagleboy
Schmack said:
"PowerPlay makes you a cog in someone else’s mission." -OP

Precisely. PC gaming, this kind (at least for me) is about controlling my adventure based on how I feel today, not based on a laundry list. I have IRL lists to get done, gaming is about whim and fancy and "what happens if I do this?".

Where you say "just ignore PP and ...." (paraphrasing), you really can't. It's presence is felt even if you're not pledged. You must participate if you play. Sure you can be a savvy trader and look for deals but for what? You'll get more Cr to play a game you don't want to play. It's like doing cocaine so you can work more so you can make more money so you can do more cocaine. Why not just do cocaine for fun? Too expensive... (not promoting cocaine, just a bad analogy).
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Correct me if I am wrong, but PP doesn't provide any huge monetary perks outside ladders. You basically get no money for killing ships for example (ok, few thousands). Or have gotten it wrong?
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
Viajero
Zephyriel said:
I agree with Drew's post wholeheartedly. While I've enjoyed this update to some extent, I don't think it's what the community is waiting for, I'm sure people would love some effort towards things like persistent NPCs with dialogue trees, more complexity for each profession... I hope the next update won't be something they pull out of nowhere again, but rather something that was in the DDA...
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Not sure why people keep thinking that Powerplay had never been part of early considerations in one form or another. Please watch this David Braben video at min 03:00 and 04:50, as examples. I am sure there are others. In there DB lays precisely the aggregated population action mechanics that govern Community Goals and Powerplay today in essence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uKD1ap5hsI

By the nature of the early state of development back then and because conveying design concepts in words can never reflect the exact detail of the final solution, many here had obviously constructed in their minds certain preconceptions of the game. The fact that those preconceptions dont actually match the solution delivered in the end does not mean at all that many of those havent actually been delivered as originally intended. You may like PP and CG or not, and offer your feedback, but you cant in any way suggest these in particular were pulled out of nowhere I am afraid.
 
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JeffRyan

JeffRyan
Yeah, I feel like I'm in the minority who loves Power Play.

That said, they sorta ignored the lore, there's a couple of people there who'd have fit.

Kahina for the Empire. And James Gibson, the President of Lave from Lave: Revolution for the Alliance. It would have been nice if this tied in at all. One of the interesting things in the fiction was tie ins with the game, but it's amounted to little other than 'get something named same as other backers and then you're ignored'...
 

Jason S

J
Pecisk said:
Well, it seems that lot of people have misunderstood what FD is going for here. My problem is that everything has to be explained with numbers and visual indicators - but I guess that's requirement of modern games, as people don't like having no control or visual indication what's going on. This fact alone makes game feel a more 'gamey', but still doesn't bother me much. I am undecided on merits - I understand ladder principle in both CG and PP, but I am not entirely sold on them. There's need to be small bonuses of on providing favors for power while staying outside.

I personally don't feel anything about ED going wrong direction. Outside PP, 1.3 finally start to make sense, finally it is more about consequences - bounties, NPC AI, etc. etc. Yes, I will probably try PP but I don't see it playing for very long time - as I am not faction fan in nutshell - but I don't see why it can't be in ED.

Said that, I can echo lot of sentiment regarding things "missing" for me in ED...but I see PP as one of final foundation blocks (regarding background sim). It will get refined, improved, tuned. It will get better.
Click to expand...

I sort of think the same in that I do not think that power play harms the game, but what about stuff for non-faction orientated players.
 

Cmdr Eagleboy

Cmdr Eagleboy
Viajero said:
Not sure why people keep thinking that Powerplay had never been part of early considerations in one form or another. Please watch this David Braben video at min 03:00 and 04:50, as examples. I am sure there are others. In there DB lays precisely the aggregated population action mechanics that govern Community Goals and Powerplay work in essence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uKD1ap5hsI

By the nature of the early state of development back then and because conveying design concepts in words can never reflect the exact detail of the final solution, many here had obviously constructed in their minds certain preconceptions of the game. The fact that those preconceptions dont actually match the solution delivered in the end does not mean at all that many of those have actually been delivered as originally intended. You may like it or not, and offer your feedback, but you cant in any way suggest that was pulled out of nowhere I am afraid.
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This. Not a fan of PP mechanic at this point, but I am interested to see where it goes and I certainly don't feel it appeared suddenly. I am surprised lot of old backers have missed this.

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Jason S said:
I sort of think the same in that I do not think that power play harms the game, but what about stuff for non-faction orientated players.
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That's valid question and my concern too. So I hope for some reveals during summer months how FD plans to expand regular gameplay (versus meta gameplay).
 

Winterwalker

Winterwalker
Jason S said:
I sort of think the same in that I do not think that power play harms the game, but what about stuff for non-faction orientated players.
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Agreed. Worth bearing in mind that this is first base implementation of the first community goal driver, not to send all players in populated space, all to the same place. If CG's are to have relevance then a powerplay type, islanding system had to be included. The fact that playable tasks are limited right now is probably a big reason if power play looks unfathomable or pointless to some (including myself when I first saw it). Hopefully the individual colouration of the powers will resolve as time goes on though, but it also seems clear, that while many want .. nay, expect! .. total freedom, to explore the ED galaxy, others called out to be given tasks with definite goals. As long as it's still possible to make your own way, which it is, outside of power play, it makes little sense not to cater for more players.
 
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