Shield recharge - MISCONCEPT!

[Shaamaan]

I've said this probably often enough, so I'll be brief:

I don't want to pay credits just to recharge my shields at a decent rate or instantly. I don't want shield cell spam be the only alternative to sitting around idling for 10 minutes or more. I want shield regeneration addressed properly, with decent recharge rates - no more than 1-2min to go from empty to full on any ship.

And before anyone again repeats "scaling recharge rate would make big shields OP and immune to weak weapons" - no, because shield regeneration already pauses for a few seconds after being hit. This recharge delay could possibly be increased for bigger shields if necessary, but my favourite solution would be a recharge speed that starts at the current rate and after 10 seconds, ramps up until at 30 seconds, it is fast enough it would take at most 1-2 minutes for a shield to go from entirely depleted to entirely full (you'd have to avoid all weapons fire, of course, any hit and regeneration would pause and then start slow again).

P.S.: Shield regeneration always had these problems. It just became so immediate an issue because everyonewho simply hopped into SC and back into the CZ/RES/Nav Point previously, now has to actually experience these excruciating downtimes. I do appreciate the FSD+relog shield reset was fixed, now I am looking forward to shield regeneration being possibly addressed in 1.4.

I would love this as well, but I'm 100% sure PvPers and the "it's not realistic" crowd will be all over this.

Personally I'd take this a step further and have more variety in shields in general. Different recharge rates, different sizes, different energy consumption? You name it! As it is, it's just boring - every class has more strength than the last, every rating has more strength than the last. It's a boring progression of a single parameter with absolutely no variety.

You could have smaller shields with decreased recharge times (including in-combat recharge). You could have massive shields with slower recharge times.

And for goodness sake - tie in the SYS pips to shields in some meaningful way! The current way (i.e. more pips in SYS == more shield resistance) is so unintuitive, that had I not read about this on the forums I'd have never figured it out. I'd expect a faster recharge rate (which is true for all other energy-related components)...

 

[popuptoaster]

It is funny how easy it is to pick out everybody who isn't flying anything larger than a cobra in this thread.

I'm OK with the new shield mechanic and one of my regular ships is a Clipper, but I never fly it (or the Anaconda I no longer have) with half a dozen shield boosters so I don't have the problem.


There is no reason why you should get a quick charge in a station, the amount of power your powerplant puts out is not the limiting factor, landing at a station cannot increase the charge rate if it's already charging as fast as it can, put more power through electronics systems than they can handle and they just shut down or catch fire.

I like that ED makes you make choices, if you want to run a ship that can handle a real battering and stay in a fight for a long time then you pay for that with a long recharge time, my shields may go down faster, but i can get back into a fight faster so it evens out.

Just make different choices of you don't like the consequences of the ones you have been making up to now.

 

[Nitek [pl]]

popuptoaster: it's a game you know? Wasting people's time is not immersive. It's dumb by concept.

 

[Distance]

This is another thing why I think they rushed 1.3 out before E3.

So many fixes that break other parts of the game whilst being "intended features".

 

[Iskariot]

A fast shield recharge at stations would be great.
I'd even like to pay credits for this service and have it show up as an option next to the ammo reload etc.

 

[Nitek [pl]]

exactly +1

 

[Stigbob]

While this might not be a bug in the "not working as intended" sense, it's a terrible (and bloody stupid) design decision. Assuming there even WAS a conscious decision to make this happen (it seems to me it's an extreme short-sighted fix, what Frotier did with the shields). And I figured out what's going on rather quickly, except these are workarounds to a problem, not actual fixes. A problem which blatantly wastes my time.

Also, cheaters and exploiters are probably still doing their thing. BTW: it's hard to call exiting a zone and coming back an "exploit" the same way not having a faster shield recharge method is calling it a "bug". So either have the sense to accept this as a "bug", or don't call people exiting and re-entering zones "exploiters".

So you know about the workaround and you know about the reasons for the change, all you need to do now is build up the courage to launch with low shields. The ramming fines will protect you till you jump and the few minutes in FSD will allow your shields to recharge fully. You are wasting your own time, nobody else.

If FD didnt think the exit re-enter shield exploit was cheating they wouldnt have changed it (and wouldn't have consistently referred to it as an exploit). FD have stopped people cheating (in this way) it's a good thing.

 

[Shaamaan]

If FD didnt think the exit re-enter shield exploit was cheating they wouldnt have changed it (and wouldn't have consistently referred to it as an exploit). FD have stopped people cheating (in this way) it's a good thing.

When did they call this cheating / exploiting?

From what I read it was just simplified because Frontier didn't have time / resources to implement it otherwise from the start. True as that may be, HAD they implemented the current system from the start this discussion would have happened a long time ago, and I'm sure things would have been changed by now.

Finally, consider that:
a) you can have everything else refreshed when you launch - why not shields?
b) your rep decays when you're offline but shields do not recharge
c) you cannot use shield cells when docked (why not?)

 

[Stigbob]

When did they call this cheating / exploiting?

There are threads/posts about this cheat/exploit as old as mid 2014.

From what I read it was just simplified because Frontier didn't have time / resources to implement it otherwise from the start. True as that may be, HAD they implemented the current system from the start this discussion would have happened a long time ago, and I'm sure things would have been changed by now.

This discussion did happen a long time ago, it was an exploitable cheat (originally a technical limitation exploited by bad/incapable players) and now its fixed. It was like combat logging currently is, only cheats used it (I have never used either).

Finally, consider that:
a) you can have everything else refreshed when you launch - why not shields?

Perhaps FD have plugged an exploitable griefer technique before it went live, stations are griefers favorite spots after all. And again waiting for full shields is your choice it's not compulsory.

b) your rep decays when you're offline but shields do not recharge

At a guess I would say that cheats and exploiters would leave the instance exit to the menu, reload the game and have recharged shields.

Rep isn't powered by your reactor it's powered by what you do, and what you did in the past. Your current actions count for more than your past actions that's good game design IMO decay is sensible.

c) you cannot use shield cells when docked (why not?)

Because there's no need, you don't need full shields to lift off.

 

[GammaZ]

Current system seems ok to me. At least now you have to watch your shield and sys capacitor from time to time. And in terms of "wasted time" nothing really changed. Shields recharge while you fly to next location/search next target.
Also stations do provide power for shield recharge, when you are docked your sys capacitor will be full and shield will be charging at full rate even if you have 0 pips to sys.

 

[KaizoMK]

@stigbob, shields recharging offline are no more exploitable than combat logging. As you say, logging while your shields recharge at best keep you safe until you log back in, by then the problem has likely disappeared. At worst it puts you in another, irrelevant instance.

Also, using shield cell banks after launching just means you have to waste time buying more, or go short. And I really don't see station ship recharge being exploited.

Oh, I didn't notice the thing about the station powering sys. Nice.

 

[CMDR RAY-ZOR'SHARP]

I'm OK with the new shield mechanic and one of my regular ships is a Clipper, but I never fly it (or the Anaconda I no longer have) with half a dozen shield boosters so I don't have the problem.


There is no reason why you should get a quick charge in a station, the amount of power your powerplant puts out is not the limiting factor, landing at a station cannot increase the charge rate if it's already charging as fast as it can, put more power through electronics systems than they can handle and they just shut down or catch fire.

I like that ED makes you make choices, if you want to run a ship that can handle a real battering and stay in a fight for a long time then you pay for that with a long recharge time, my shields may go down faster, but i can get back into a fight faster so it evens out.

Just make different choices of you don't like the consequences of the ones you have been making up to now.

That may have some relevance when in combat but has absolutely none when docked, I did a rough time test when docked.

Anaconda A7 Shields, 7 x A rated SB


Shields off Boosters off 20:58:00
Shields up Booster on 21:01:49
Shields recharged @ 21:18:57

And that is called total and a needless waste of real time, I know there are ways to speed that time up and I use them, but having to use in game work a rounds to mitigate a time sink like that is pathetic.

Shields should recharge upon docking or be recharged in the same manner as using Shield Cells on the repair screen, because if you can repair and refuel your ship with a button click and be OK with that then it stands to reason shield recharge should be treated in the same way regardless of which ship you fly.

 

[popuptoaster]

popuptoaster: it's a game you know? Wasting people's time is not immersive. It's dumb by concept.

The game is not wasting your time, you are wasting your own time by CHOOSING to fly with heavy duty shielding, you made an outfitting choice and you know what that entails as far as recharge rates go.

If you don't like it then change your load out.

You know what's dumb?

Doing the same thing over and over and complaining about what happens because of that.

 

[shadragon]

This is not the bug section. If you want this actioned put it in the right forum.

 

[marktay]

I think this was a reaction to the re-entry shield charge exploit, but I think the recharge in Station is an unintended consequence or just laziness/lack of resources when FD fixed it.
As is said elsewhere in this thread, it takes 10 seconds to load/unload 400t of Palladium, 5 seconds to repair an Anaconda at 10% hull, or 3 seconds to refuel and reload, why 10 minutes to recharge shields in station - it doesn't really stack up.
FD have some form when it comes to reacting to players, there was lots of whining about the re-entry exploit - maybe they were too hasty in their fix.

 

[KaizoMK]

The game is not wasting your time, you are wasting your own time by CHOOSING to fly with heavy duty shielding, you made an outfitting choice and you know what that entails as far as recharge rates go.

If you don't like it then change your load out.

You know what's dumb?

Doing the same thing over and over and complaining about what happens because of that.

Personally, I'd rather engage in a dialogue about how dumb needless waiting is, in the hopes that FD will read it and make an overall sensible decision.

But from a factual standpoint, there is a perfectly good reason for shields not to instantly charge out of SC, and it's because it was a bad mechanic that ruined something fun - the chase. Time is important right up until you complete your docking sequence, then it stops being relevant for the purposes of your shields. After that, time you have to wait IS wasted time.

Our options are huge shields, or having your fragile hull exposed. You'd have to be suicidal to pick the latter. Don't make it sound like we have a choice.

 

[PhazonAran]

The game is not wasting your time, you are wasting your own time by CHOOSING to fly with heavy duty shielding, you made an outfitting choice and you know what that entails as far as recharge rates go.

If you don't like it then change your load out.

You know what's dumb?

Doing the same thing over and over and complaining about what happens because of that.

You know what's dumb ? Not stacking on shields when you know that your powerplant will pop out fast no matter how much armor you put on your ship. Shield is the only efficient way to survive, there is simply no choice.

 

[Thasarion]

I'll be straight up honest. I have never noticed this before. (it could be because I am still working through medium ships) I do think it would be nice for large ships who's shields take a year to go online, and another year to charge up to full.

 

[KaizoMK]

I'll be straight up honest. I have never noticed this before. (it could be because I am still working through medium ships) I do think it would be nice for large ships who's shields take a year to go online, and another year to charge up to full.

Absolutely. But charging up at a station is a must.

 

[CMDR Endincite]

Easy answer is not to use so many boosters if you don't like the results, but no one wants to do that.

Strikes me that FD are trying to encourage people to try using different load-out rather than everyone just stacking energy shields all the time.

Then they should probably make armor useful for modules. Right now once your shields are gone you're toast, so maxing out my shields remains a top priority.