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A writer's thoughts on 'PowerPlay' - Drew Wagar
- Thread starter drew
- Start date
Powerplay is a loss maker even if the most optimistic interpretations of merit decay is considered.
You WILL lose credits participating.
btw. People who only care about credit per hour gameplay are seriously missing the point I fear and are setting themselves up for failure.
How can one lose in a game that has no "win"?
Not that i play for the credits, thats a means to a wanted ship or a wanted outfit. But PP is not my kind of game either. its a mindless time/credtis sink for those
people that have achived all their "goals" and see no "endgame" here.
And a round based *anything* doesent fit the open sandbox of elite at all.
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By failure I mean, not enjoying what they are doing...
I agree that Powerplay is flawed, but I do think with some tweaks and further development it can be a great addition to Elite.
Will it ever be for everyone?
Of course not.
Ce la vie.
Cheers.
Read your thoughts and I raise an evil juice in a toast to good points well thought out and delivered. Cheers
True problem is that Elite universe is shared. And because it is shared - game can't provide unique experience to each and every player at least in terms of 'mystery' and 'adventure'. Once someone discovers Thargoids, for example, he effectively cuts you from discovering them first hand. That's works not only for Thargoids, though. Once mystery has been unraveled - it won't be a mystery to anyone, thanks to Galnet. MMO has entirely different perspective than a single player game.
We can have mysteries here, of course - as long as lore gives a gap for us to fill with thoughts and rumors - like who was behind explosion of Starship One or attempt on Emperor's life, but that's it.
So the only way to add excitement and unpredictability to the game is either through human interactions or random events. PP takes care of the first. Yes it isn't polished yet and may look boring and pointless to some people but it is a step. It is a good idea it just needs additional work to become really interesting aspect of the game. Including developing of the Powerplay characters.
Second aspect is probably going to be some kind of disaster generator. Like supernovas in original Elite.
So far I like PP. Hunting federal transports for Arissa, seeing them begging for mercy when you are frying them gives food for thought that maybe even the most good powers isn't so good at all. Indeed monetary/merit rewards need adjustment, but if you forget about getting that Anaconda as soon as possible and start actually living as a soldier - it's all part of RP.
Also it was a nice surprise that with high bounties on my head in Hudson's space I've got bounty hunters chasing me even in Arissa's space.
We can have mysteries here, of course - as long as lore gives a gap for us to fill with thoughts and rumors - like who was behind explosion of Starship One or attempt on Emperor's life, but that's it.
So the only way to add excitement and unpredictability to the game is either through human interactions or random events. PP takes care of the first. Yes it isn't polished yet and may look boring and pointless to some people but it is a step. It is a good idea it just needs additional work to become really interesting aspect of the game. Including developing of the Powerplay characters.
Second aspect is probably going to be some kind of disaster generator. Like supernovas in original Elite.
So far I like PP. Hunting federal transports for Arissa, seeing them begging for mercy when you are frying them gives food for thought that maybe even the most good powers isn't so good at all. Indeed monetary/merit rewards need adjustment, but if you forget about getting that Anaconda as soon as possible and start actually living as a soldier - it's all part of RP.
Also it was a nice surprise that with high bounties on my head in Hudson's space I've got bounty hunters chasing me even in Arissa's space.
Perhaps the solution is to have the players help out in a mystery a la Community Goals, but the actual act of kicking the Thargoids' Nest is done by one of the lore characters. Sure, it's going to annoy those players who feel they are the Special One who changes the destiny of the Universe all by themselves and with nobody else's help but theirs alone, but on the other hand it does place these big events in the same category as the Supernova described here: something whose exact trigger happens completely out of the players' hands, but in this case the players have a say in making the trigger happen.
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I like the addition of PP. I am not 100 per cent sold on some of the mechanisms which feel too much like a board game, but I do like the additional back drop it gives to the game. The Federation, Empire and Alliance were always very nebulous and the factions apparently system locked, now we have powers that span systems. The biggest benefit is that it provides a mechanism to drop the Thargoid power into and for the invasion to be visible.
The problem of how to provide unique exploration content for the individual, in a multi-player world with Youtube there to share your delights, is a challenging one. The only way I can see it really working is with elements that can be morphed into something different that we can interact with, so the same set of objects in a different combination can be applied in multiple places of the galaxy. To a degree outpost design is one element of introducing this variation. Planet landing and walking around are therefore two vital elements in building this variation. Missions could then be generated with find quests, spying, espionage increasing the variety.
The problem of how to provide unique exploration content for the individual, in a multi-player world with Youtube there to share your delights, is a challenging one. The only way I can see it really working is with elements that can be morphed into something different that we can interact with, so the same set of objects in a different combination can be applied in multiple places of the galaxy. To a degree outpost design is one element of introducing this variation. Planet landing and walking around are therefore two vital elements in building this variation. Missions could then be generated with find quests, spying, espionage increasing the variety.
I would hope the discovery of the Thargoids, or any other entity out there, would be a community effort and not just some lone explorer who stumbles across them doing the old hyperspace-ADS grind. There was a time when I hoped one of those lone explorers out there would find them, but my stance on that has completely changed after seeing the sheer effort the community put in in working together on solving the recent riddles. And personally speaking I really don't want the presence of an alien civilization to be announced on some reddit post via a lame screenshot of an alien scout ship, or a system view screenshot of one of their bases. For something so profound (gamewise), that would be incredibly lame as the mystery would be over far too quickly.
If that's the way FD want it to play out then fair enough, but I would at least hope the discoverer puts a story together, a blog, or a video, that fleshes out their encounter and has a story to tell before they reveal all. Its something I tried to do myself with the Daedalus Wing series but it sort of petered out when the clues lead nowhere and the content I wanted to use for the final episode was never found.
Granted, not everyone has the time or inclination to put together a backstory of their adventures in the game, I understand that, but something as significant as a first encounter deserves some sort of story and community-wide participation in my opinion. So I agree with you, in that I hope FD take the lead on this and seed clues by whatever means, and possibly like you say one of the characters will be used as the vehicle to bring this content to the masses.
Philip Coutts
Volunteer Moderator
I commented on Twitter at the time and I'll say it here as well. Drew's blog pretty much nails my feelings on Powerplay. I don't really like it, I don't understand where it came from, I don't understand why it was never run past the DDF (well I do, I think the DDF would have shredded it) and it feels incredibly "Un-Elite". Forge your own path, eh no, be stuck like a hamster on a wheel as an incredibly small cog in a massive machine is what we have ended up with. It's nicely presented but it doesn't hide the fact the mission structure is really poor, the game lacks a soul and there are so many silly niggling bugs that it makes me sad.
Please Frontier, concentrate on fixing the bugs in the game before releasing more fluff. I may be way off the mark with this but the powerplay stuff looks like it is aimed at the console market, please do not forget your core market Frontier. Remember us, the PC gamers who made the kickstarter happen, we are still here you know, we won't go away. Well some people will probably get fed up and go away but most of us are British and we do low level whining and waiting in a way that no other country in the world can match!
Please Frontier, concentrate on fixing the bugs in the game before releasing more fluff. I may be way off the mark with this but the powerplay stuff looks like it is aimed at the console market, please do not forget your core market Frontier. Remember us, the PC gamers who made the kickstarter happen, we are still here you know, we won't go away. Well some people will probably get fed up and go away but most of us are British and we do low level whining and waiting in a way that no other country in the world can match!
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Read the blog post, pretty much agree. I keep coming back to the whole mile long, inch deep metaphor with ED. I know there are those for whom the game has plenty of depth, but for me, once the veneer comes off, the game is oddly shallow and sterile. The flight mechanics and combat model are great fun, and exploration is aesthetically pleasing at first, but once you've done any of these things for any length of time, boredom sets in. The galaxy just does not feel alive. The posts on galnet do not feel connected to the universe we fly about in. There are no characters, no stories, no emotional investment. Unless Eve-style, emergent, PvP gameplay appeals to you, Elite lacks a sense of adventure or discovery. There is nothing interesting or exciting out there to happen across.
I think it's a convenient get-out to describe PP as an MMO-style mechanic, too. Successful MMOs have oodles of content. They are not purely about PvP and emergent gameplay. Even end-game content like raids aren't PvP, and most MMOs have story and quest systems to play through long before you get that far. That shouldn't surprise anyone, because MMOs are trying to keep you playing for months or years. The number of hours you burn through in them is staggering.
I think it's a convenient get-out to describe PP as an MMO-style mechanic, too. Successful MMOs have oodles of content. They are not purely about PvP and emergent gameplay. Even end-game content like raids aren't PvP, and most MMOs have story and quest systems to play through long before you get that far. That shouldn't surprise anyone, because MMOs are trying to keep you playing for months or years. The number of hours you burn through in them is staggering.
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The depth is there. We are just not allowed to dive yet. The story is slowly getting quite complex. We do things that affect it, but we have no idea how. We don't have the mechanics to break thru the surface. Maybe it's a bit to much like RL.
Well summed up post Drew (liked your book by the way, best of the Elite books in my opinion). I'm finding I really couldn't care too much about the politics side of things in Elite. It's another set of mathematical set of calculations for fetch, carry and assassination missions where the rewards aren't that great without an unrealistic amount of effort on my time.
So, it's time for me to park up and wait it out. I've been in this since Alpha so there's also a bit of burnout happening here I'm sure but, despite all the hard work the Frontier devs have no doubt put in, this really isn't for me at all.
So, it's time for me to park up and wait it out. I've been in this since Alpha so there's also a bit of burnout happening here I'm sure but, despite all the hard work the Frontier devs have no doubt put in, this really isn't for me at all.
I've said before but PP came easier to me because of my roleplaying background and as such gave me a much needed context. I fit the faction I'm backing (Space Khaleesi!) into my personal lore. The motivation for that (stupid Jeff, but it's realistic) and it gave me a reason as to WHY I do stuff.
As such some of the metagaming of PP goes over my head (delibrately, but I get it, Game Theory) as I'm playing it as my character would. He wants his beloved Space Khaleesi on the throne.
And that made a difference to me, whatever the mechanics, before I would never have killed another ship that wasn't wanted. Now I happily do so serving my Future Empress, because now there's a why to as I become wanted in the federation and possibly even the Empire. A reckless outlaw committing heinous crimes to serve her.
Context, PP gave it to me and my enjoyment of the game grew out of it.
As such some of the metagaming of PP goes over my head (delibrately, but I get it, Game Theory) as I'm playing it as my character would. He wants his beloved Space Khaleesi on the throne.
And that made a difference to me, whatever the mechanics, before I would never have killed another ship that wasn't wanted. Now I happily do so serving my Future Empress, because now there's a why to as I become wanted in the federation and possibly even the Empire. A reckless outlaw committing heinous crimes to serve her.
Context, PP gave it to me and my enjoyment of the game grew out of it.
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It's funny because I consider it mostly my roleplaying/writing background that jars with Powerplay. It just feels disconnected and aimless. They'd have been better just giving us a picture and a bio without then making us deliver intra-galactic leaflets etc.. It makes no sense.
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In fact, I've quit delivering intra-galactic leaflets....
I read Drews blog and I thought he made some good points particulary about the seaming randomness of the powers. Its a fair point to raise the DDA as well. Yet I strongly disagree that ED is a single player game, or should be one. The previous games certainly were but time has moved on and one of the main goals of the new game, stated by Braben in KS, was multiplayer. There do appear to be some quarters in this community who, and I say this with no ill will, are stuck in an 80's mindset re games and even Drew said he's not that much of a gamer.
I must admit PP did come as a little bit of a surprise in the sort of direction Frontier have gone but since its release I have been thoroughly enjoying the game. For an Elite game I might have expected the NPCs to be embellished as per the DDA - but perhaps there are resource constraints on whats possible. Some of the elements of PP need to be looked at and tweaked and will no doubt be enhanced over time but I think its added a great new dynamic to the galaxy.
Adversarial player interaction is now a load more meaningful that it ever was - which surely addresses many a complaint aired on these forums over the years. Personally, I'd like to see the game be a little more sandboxy.. There is an baffling amount of stars and planets out there and its all empty.. Short of Frontier dropping a few hundred mil on filling it with developer content I think its better to give us players the tools do create stuff ourselves.
I must admit PP did come as a little bit of a surprise in the sort of direction Frontier have gone but since its release I have been thoroughly enjoying the game. For an Elite game I might have expected the NPCs to be embellished as per the DDA - but perhaps there are resource constraints on whats possible. Some of the elements of PP need to be looked at and tweaked and will no doubt be enhanced over time but I think its added a great new dynamic to the galaxy.
Adversarial player interaction is now a load more meaningful that it ever was - which surely addresses many a complaint aired on these forums over the years. Personally, I'd like to see the game be a little more sandboxy.. There is an baffling amount of stars and planets out there and its all empty.. Short of Frontier dropping a few hundred mil on filling it with developer content I think its better to give us players the tools do create stuff ourselves.
Hiya Mr Cosmos!
You should really read this. And also read this.
There are huge numbers of gamers who don't want multiplayer. Whether it's because they have unstable internet, are shy, don't like to deal with trolls or griefers, are introverted, prefer single player narratives, or (and this is a big one) don't want their gaming experience to be dependent on other random strangers.
E: D very definitely should offer more single player content. If it's going to stick to an MMO path then that's ok, but it's going to lose a lot of people in the process and I really doubt it will pick up as many as it loses - there are much better multiplayer experiences out there. The appeal of this game is, as it always has been, blazing your own trail in a cut-throat universe. It certainly isn't roflstomping space n00bz in an Anaconda.