Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].

[SteveLaw]

It wasn't designed with Powerplay in mind, either.

The "game" I meant was "Powerplay".

with no ability whatsoever for your own power to influence it.

Everyone is able to influence every other Power. You actually want to be able to stop that. Whatever you apply to the enemy taking actions against you is equally applied to your Power taking actions against the enemy. It's balanced. It's just not forcing PvP, which is the issue you have and which doesn't belong here.

Incidentally, I think Powerplay is very poorly implemented and I won't be taking part. In fact it's caused me to seriously re-consider taking part in Elite as a whole. The fact remains, though, that your complaint isn't about the modes. As most of them in this thread really aren't. It's about Elite being designed around indirect player opposition where you would prefer direct action for everyone, all the time. It's a difference of preference, nothing more. You want to force everyone to play your way and we want everyone to be able to choose how they want to play.

 

[fademist]

The idea that you can create an instance of 32 players and cart them around from system to system, supercruise to normal space, without some serious hacking on the network side, is absurd.

no hacking needed for that is on this thread though search for it...

 

[Mouse]

But *someone* could. Again, possible Vs. impossible.

" *someone* could"


In Open *someone* could oppose them in PVP or in other ways

In group *someone* could , depending on the group, oppose them in PVP or in other ways

In Solo *someone* could oppose them in other ways.

*someone* could counter.... the ONLY difference in the three modes in countering is in open , and possibly in group depending on which you play in, *someone* could try to stop someone else by trying blow them up.. which comes back to the old argument of PP needs to be in Open only so that people can try to blow them up.

I'm not going to bother quoting myself, but further up the thread I explained the Powerplay rules for fortification and undermining. The only way to stop an opposing power from undermining your fortified control system is to halt their activities. Scare them off, convince them that they're better off defecting to your side, blowing them in to small irregular-shaped pieces, whatever. But yes there is no possible counter to someone attempting to undermine a fortified control system other than direct interaction with said players.

No... "The only way to stop an opposing power from undermining your fortified control system is to halt their activities." is not the only way, you keep saying your explaining the rules of powerplay so how come you are not listening to those same rules? Because as has been stated before, you can stop an opposing power from undermining by fortifying, you just have to have more fortifying then they do undermining at the end of the cycle.

All your other comments about , "Scare them off, convince them that they're better off defecting to your side, blowing them in to small irregular-shaped pieces, whatever." intimidation, attempting to destroy them.. aka trying to blow them up or threatening to .. all which equals PVP.

There is no possible vs impossible.. except for.. PVP.

 

[Roybe]

You would be able to stop ships from another power being able to deliver their supplies (or whatever their particular undermining tactic was).

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Nope. You could only stop a 'few' ships. The way instancing works, using in game mechanics, people can prevent others from gaining access to their instance. Or you could just set up your router to do the same thing.

Ultimately, there is no way to make people stay or play together in Open. Blockades are a waste of time for defensive means. They are great fun for RP. People just need to realize that this is all they are good for.

 

[jou84]

Yes, it's neutral. The Fortify cancelled out the Undermine. Without the Fortify you'd be paying more upkeep. So it was partly successful.

So you are worrying about players from other powers undermining in Solo? What about players from your Power Fortifying in Solo? Or players from your Power undermining another in Solo. It all balances out.

You want to stop everyone else from Undermining your system completely? Tough. The game wasn't designed like that. It was NOT designed for players to oppose other players via combat. They do it through indirect actions. You seem to have misunderstood the focus of the game. Actions have counter actions. You oppose actions with their counter action, not by blocking the action in the first place.

The modes do not open a loophole or a flaw, they expose the game as something other than you are hoping for. That's all. (It works better if you think of it as designed for Solo rather than designed for Open, then it makes sense. Sorry about that.)

Could it not set that if you are in hostile territory you have to be in open?

I think all jgm and I are saying is that players from other factions should not be able to undermine in the ananimoty of solo, because you can't stop them. I also think that if I go to another power I need to be visable if I am hostile so members of that faction can stop me, kill me or talk to me or whatever. If you are in your own power or unclaimed space then you can get on by yourself in solo.

 

[Roybe]

" *someone* could"


In Open *someone* could oppose them in PVP or in other ways

In group *someone* could , depending on the group, oppose them in PVP or in other ways

In Solo *someone* could oppose them in other ways.

*someone* could counter.... the ONLY difference in the three modes in countering is in open , and possibly in group depending on which you play in, *someone* could try to stop someone else by trying blow them up.. which comes back to the old argument of PP needs to be in Open only so that people can try to blow them up.




No... "The only way to stop an opposing power from undermining your fortified control system is to halt their activities." is not the only way, you keep saying your explaining the rules of powerplay so how come you are not listening to those same rules? Because as has been stated before, you can stop an opposing power from undermining by fortifying, you just have to have more fortifying then they do undermining at the end of the cycle.

All your other comments about , "Scare them off, convince them that they're better off defecting to your side, blowing them in to small irregular-shaped pieces, whatever." intimidation, attempting to destroy them.. aka trying to blow them up or threatening to .. all which equals PVP.

There is no possible vs impossible.. except for.. PVP.

Not true. Once the trigger level has been met, they both cancel each other out. This occurs around 1300 pieces of each item delivered...after that, efforts are wasted.

However, yes, fifth column defense is to match or beat undermining until the trigger level is met.

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Could it not set that if you are in hostile territory you have to be in open?

I think all jgm and I are saying is that players from other factions should not be able to undermine in the ananimoty of solo, because you can't stop them. I also think that if I go to another power I need to be visable if I am hostile so members of that faction can stop me, kill me or talk to me or whatever. If you are in your own power or unclaimed space then you can get on by yourself in solo.

People could still sign up for your Power and work against you by prepping crap systems for expansion....

 

[jou84]

^ yes they can, but we are not talking about the enemy from with in. We are talking about the enemy who crosses into our territory and destroys stuff at a 15 to 1 ratio and is invisable.

 

[SteveLaw]

a 15 to 1 ratio

That's marvellously accurate. Where did you get that figure from?

 

[jou84]

That's marvellously accurate. Where did you get that figure from?

You get 1 merit for dropping off 1 bit of propaganda etc. You get 15 merits for shooting npcs dropping stuff off in an enemy control area

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=154676

 

[SteveLaw]

You get 1 merit for dropping off 1 bit of propaganda etc. You get 15 merits for shooting npcs dropping stuff off in an enemy control area

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=154676

What has that got to do with Solo? You get the same merits in every mode.

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Could it not set that if you are in hostile territory you have to be in open?

I think all jgm and I are saying is that players from other factions should not be able to undermine in the ananimoty of solo, because you can't stop them. I also think that if I go to another power I need to be visable if I am hostile so members of that faction can stop me, kill me or talk to me or whatever. If you are in your own power or unclaimed space then you can get on by yourself in solo.

NPCs of enemy Powers are hostile and are far more likely to see you than other players, even in Open. And no you shouldn't have to be in any mode. Elite and Powerplay are designed for all players, not just those who choose Open.

 

[jou84]

What has that got to do with Solo? You get the same merits in every mode.

Because if the ones killing the NCPs for 15 merits a pop were in open then they could be asked to leave or made to leave.

I am currently level 2. This means I get a 15t allocation of stuff every 30 minutes (I can buy more for 150k cr). So to counter 1 kill it costs me either 150k cr or 30 minutes. How many unopposed kills do you think you could make in 30 minutes? Also wouldn't prevention be better? There is no mechanic to stop opposition.

 

[SteveLaw]

Because if the ones killing the NCPs for 15 merits a pop were in open then they could be asked to leave or made to leave.

And that's why it won't happen. You are forcibly removing content from players who are "weaker" than you and your gang.

Merits are no longer competitive btw. It doesn't matter how many merits another players gets. Everyone can get Rank 5 if they play hard/long enough. Why do you want to stop others' from getting it? Think of all the extra merits you can earn while not wasting time trying to stop other people having fun.

 

[jou84]

NPCs of enemy Powers are hostile and are far more likely to see you than other players, even in Open. And no you shouldn't have to be in any mode. Elite and Powerplay are designed for all players, not just those who choose Open.

So why don't people go in open for this type of activity? Because there is a chance that they may be challenged for doing something they shouldn't.

Let me put this another way. If you spent 30minute cleaning your car and I threw a bucket of dirty water over it what would you do? You may ask me not to do that again, you may clean your car again, you may chase me off? Now imagine if you car got dirty again just after you cleaned it, you would just have to clean it again, then its dirty again like someone threw dirty water over it, you'd clean it again. Your car never stays clean and there is nothing you can do about it. This is the current game mechanic. What we are asking for is a chance to catch the guy with the bucket of dirty water.

 

[Tuub t Tute]

If all powers have roughly equal pledges, it comes down to what is the most effective use of time for your power? Is it going actively delivering, or going into enemy territory and kill npcs? OR trying to prevent other players in Open (sorry brainfart missed this bit off)

To my mind, the crux of this side-argument is still firmly rooted in the idea that some players hold; Which is that Open is the "prime" mode and the other two are "lesser". I can empathise with them and see why it makes them so frustrated holding this belief, even when Dev have stated over and over again that all 3 modes are equal and interchangeable.

Once the mindshift occurs to be in harmony with Dev, the idea that Powerplay in Open is a choice by a specific sub-set of players who wish to challenge themselves against unpredictable human opponents (even knowing this may impact their ability to min/max for their faction) is much easier to accept.

For those that want that specific challenge, fabulous That is exactly what the Open mode is for; equal and interchangeable with the other two modes in both the main Elite game and also PowerPlay.

 

[CMDR NEPOMUK]

Wow. Such ignorance. Who are you to tell everyone else that what you consider "fun" is the only way to play the game? Who are you to tell everyone else HOW to play the game? Answer: Nobody, and you cannot do either. People like you are the EXACT reason many players do not play in open, and thank GOD (and the developers) that we have the means to avoid cerebrally challenged individuals such as yourself.

Hey Guys!

I wanted to say that IT is DANGEROUS out there... Like the Title of the Game. I can not believe that i am fighting ( for Example ) in powerplay against Enemy- CMDR and earn merits and Other players fit out their Ship in Solo and come into Open when "their Time is right " you know?!

if you want to play Solo, IT should not have effect in "my "Open - Mode... Whether in powerplay or elsewhere... Solo is too easy...

 

[jou84]

And that's why it won't happen. You are forcibly removing content from players who are "weaker" than you and your gang.

No content is being removed, it is still there. You just have to use common sense, don't fly you spaceship in hostile territory. And if you do and shoot people expect to be shot back!

 

[SteveLaw]

So why don't people go in open for this type of activity?

There are many, many reasons among the 14,000+ posts on this subject. I don't want to interact with other people because it drains my energy. Someone else might be disabled. Or they just want a relaxed game at their own pace. Some people don't want to be your content. Or they are sick of game bullies. Etc., etc.. What's it got to do with you? You play your game and leave everyone to play how they want. You will never dominate other players who do not want to be dominated. Not in this game.

The only type of activity you need to be Open for is PvP. And lots of people have no interest in PvP.

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No content is being removed, it is still there. You just have to use common sense, don't fly you spaceship in hostile territory. And if you do and shoot people expect to be shot back!

But I want to be able to do everything in this game and not have to deal with other players. I bought this game for that very provision. You want to prevent me from attacking enemy NPCs by sticking your nose into my game and shooting me. You have the wrong game.

 

[FuzzySpider]

Hey Guys!

I wanted to say that IT is DANGEROUS out there... Like the Title of the Game. I can not believe that i am fighting ( for Example ) in powerplay against Enemy- CMDR and earn merits and Other players fit out their Ship in Solo and come into Open when "their Time is right " you know?!

if you want to play Solo, IT should not have effect in "my "Open - Mode... Whether in powerplay or elsewhere... Solo is too easy...

That's fair enough. Give me my own solo game, uneffected by other players and I'll stay there, I think you'll find most Solo players wouldn't mind either.

However, I've been playing in 100% Open since 1.3 went live. If you force me, an occasional Solo player into my own server, I'll NEVER revisit Open again. Most other players are like me, and flip between the two modes depending on what mood they're in. And similarly if you limit their ability to pick you'll never see them again.

Be careful what you wish for.

 

[jou84]

There are many, many reasons among the 14,000+ posts on this subject. I don't want to interact with other people because it drains my energy. Someone else might be disabled. Or they just want a relaxed game at their own pace. Some people don't want to be your content. Or they are sick of game bullies. Etc., etc.. What's it got to do with you? You play your game and leave everyone to play how they want. You will never dominate other players who do not want to be dominated. Not in this game.

But it is perfectly acceptable that solo players' action dictate what I have to do. That is a lovely solution.

 

[Tuub t Tute]

But it is perfectly acceptable that solo players' action dictate what I have to do. That is a lovely solution.

It is as acceptable as all the other Open players that will never be match-made into an instance with you dictate what you have to do...