Elite: Dangerous Media Revelations...

Why do we ALWAYS react negatively to whatever's put out. Updates. New Content.

Is it our fault? Are we too sensitive?

Or are Frontier to blame?

Question 1: What in your opinion could we do better to not go on a raging bender whenever something new is unveiled?

Question 2: What in your opinion could Frontier do better to not having us go on a raging bender whenever something new is unvieled?

Thread rules, answer the questions and only the questions. Keep it civil. Calm and remember I'm as guilty as anyone else as going on the odd rage/delusion. No comments on anyone elses answers.
 
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Perhaps it is due to who ever is handling the announcements is sticking their feet in it repeatedly.

Given that the announcement of dropping of single player was just before launch with no prior warning.
We have had major bugs in since launch with little or no communication about when they will be fixed.
1.3 was launched with very broken parts and then daily downtimes to resolve it on working game.

It goes on and on and on...

It would be bad enough if we were just customers but given they took over a million pounds of fans money to start development I can say why people are pretty much upset.

I wonder how the "real" backers who supposedly put the rest of the development money into the game feel about how Frontier handle the customer relations.
 
Why do we ALWAYS react negatively to whatever's put out. Updates. New Content.
I think Wings updates was accepted pretty positively.

Is it our fault? Are we too sensitive?
Yes But the internet is way to sensitive. This is the internet, you can't satisfy it, you can just live with it, keep feeding it and hopes it moves on to the next thing to be outraged, as soon as possible. I suspect that will be tomorrow when Frontier is hosting it own conference. They are bound to upset some players with their announcements

Or are Frontier to blame?

Nope.

Question 1: What in your opinion could we do better to not go on a raging bender whenever something new is unveiled?
Take chill pill and relaxed and think there are worse things in the world that PVP arenas. Like PVP arenas not being integrated into the main game.

Question 2: What in your opinion could Frontier do better to not having us go on a raging bender whenever something new is unvieled?
Nothing, this is the internet there always someone who will be a raging lunatic moaning about one of Frontier announcements. Who think they and their opinions should be the center of the universe. There half a million of us, okay we aren't all on these forums but there no way you are going to satisfy even a tiny subsection of their players that exists on these forums.
 
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The internet shall not be tamed!! I see no thread rules!

Frontier, as any dev company realizes, there is no winning in PR.

Problem is, they can't cater to everyone, so as a business they must cater to their shareholders. Whatever those decisions are, they don't much include the feelings of KS backers, Alpha backers, Beta backers or current players. Whatever they decide to protect profitability (keep attracting new customers) is then spun to us the best way they can. Some will hate it, some will not.

Though, to actually answer your questions...

1: Nothing
2: Nothing
 
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wow, that is a BIG question. They should use Playboy Bunnies at every announcement and send out doughnuts to arrive the same morning too. You know, soften the blow, and distract (sexy ladies have been shown to reduce the male IQ substantially) us Alpha specimens - don't know what you do for the lady players but i would try to roll our Chris Hemsworth to do the announcing. No body would ever listen to a single word again.

But for me if they did the following they could pander to whichever wallet they wanted to because i would empty mine :

Expand the Explorer mechanics and features
Hirelings
Planetary landings
build-able and manageable colonies
build-able and manageable outposts
Salvage system
Guns
Bigger guns
Boa Constrictor
!st person combat on ships, stations and planets with vehicles
Much bigger guns
More ships
more skins
Cobra Desktop model
More Ships
Mobile Version of CQC
increase metal value by 4x
THARGOIDS

Not much i know but, hey, its a start....
 
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Why do we ALWAYS react negatively to whatever's put out. Updates. New Content.

Question 2: What in your opinion could Frontier do better to not having us go on a raging bender whenever something new is unvieled?

.

A road Plan

Even a tentative one where we can see which direction Elite is headed in. There are several themes of concerns that people posit on this forum regularly I've noticed and they feel they're not being addressed, meanwhile announcements like the Xbox1 come out of left field and smack the bees nest with teh force of a freight train.

Frontier probably shouldn't always be hyping things with oh, oh whats this it's a POWERPLAY UPDATE kind of PR sometimes people want the stability to know a certain feature is in the pipeline at all when divisive updates like that come out
 
1. It's t'interweb. That's how it works, regrettably.
2. Not much. They have decided, probably largely for good reasons, not to reveal their road map. In the absentee of a road map, people hope and people speculate. That makes them even more unhappy when they don't see what they want. I think FD can give a little more very high level information without compromising the lack of a published road map. That would help a little. So, for example, forum regulars knew that there was going to be Xbone exclusive content: we were told. It is clear, and hardly surprising, that many forum members did not know. That is the sort of information that should be readily available. We new it was going to be this year, and we knew there was going to be exclusive content. Tell us that in a manner that makes it easily available, so that people who missed the throwaway remark could still find it. We did not need to know in advance what the exclusive content was going to be. Similarly, high level comments about expectations on further enhancements (especially a comment about the DDA contents) and paid expansions would help. Again, details not required. But high level comments along the lines of "we currently plan on making further free enhancements to build out more of the DDA designs" and "we have already started work on paid enhancements, with the first one due in about <vague timescale inserted here>" (assuming those things are true, of course).
 
I think the hardcore of elite players have been wanting stuff from the ddf implemented. I mean we have a passenger ship and no passenger missions . . .

The last release power play wasn't discussed in kickstarter or the ddf. The current arena release was also not discussed before hand (officially) and being an xbox beta so soon after a rushed and buggy 1.3 release shows that it was rushed and buggy due to the E3 xbox reveal.

On top of that some people paid a lot of money for early access and they're not getting access to it. Xbox users are also paying less than retail for the privilege.

Combat logging is still a day to day occurrence and widely discussed and encouraged by users on the forum. Well known cheaters caught on video are getting 24 hr shadow bans as a "warning" but naming and shaming them is an instant forum ban.

People keep hoping for the game they pledged for and every new release seems to be something completely tacked on to the game whilst a lot of the basic game mechanics are buggy, the content lacks depth and the mission system has always been woefully inadequate.

I think people are tired of hoping for the content they backed the game for and being let down. This is coming from an open pvp player so I assume it would be a lot worse for someone buying the game purely for the pve side of things.
 
Question 2: What in your opinion could Frontier do better to not having us go on a raging bender whenever something new is unvieled?


For over two years FD were eager to engage their backers in a constant dialogue over the direction of the game. They welcomed our ideas and input. Granted it was their decision on what was took on board and what was discarded, but at least the relationship between devs and backers was there. And it was a great time to be part of this amazing project.

Since the fundraising phase ended the shutters went up. They've become a closed shop and rarely do we hear a peep out of them anymore. And when we do its usually a one sentence answer that says very little.

If FD had kept that communication link open and kept the players in the loop with a road map, they wouldn't be getting as much flack and resentment as they're currently getting. We're left in the dark about where FD are taking this game. We only get hints of what the next upgrade will be, then only really know what it entails a few days before release through a woefully inadequate newsletter.

FD have an amazing playerbase here. Dedicated fans who are incredibly loyal and still have faith in Braben's vision... yet FD are treating us like EA treats its customers. I thought they were better than that.

So in answer to your question...
A bit more openness, some information on the direction the game is going. A little more feedback on what 1.4, 1.5 etc, will entail... that sort of thing would go a long way in making people feel they haven't been used in yet another games' companies cash grab.

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I would also like to see David Braben make some more dev diary videos and have him give us the scoop on what's coming next, even if its just a snippet. He puts a human face on this project that is sadly lacking. It was his face, his video diaries, and his enthusiasm that sold this project to a lot of us.. He's a great communicator and I would like him to lead from the front again, like he did during the kickstarter.


--

Question 1 probably wouldn't be as big an issue if people didn't feel their concerns were being ignored.
 
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... A little more feedback on what 1.4, 1.5 etc, will entail... that sort of thing would go a long way in making people feel they haven't been used in yet another games' companies cash grab.

Well we know what 1.4 will be called; 1.4 Close Quarter Combat
 
I think the hardcore of elite players have been wanting stuff from the ddf implemented. I mean we have a passenger ship and no passenger missions . . .

The last release power play wasn't discussed in kickstarter or the ddf. The current arena release was also not discussed before hand (officially) and being an xbox beta so soon after a rushed and buggy 1.3 release shows that it was rushed and buggy due to the E3 xbox reveal.

On top of that some people paid a lot of money for early access and they're not getting access to it. Xbox users are also paying less than retail for the privilege.

Combat logging is still a day to day occurrence and widely discussed and encouraged by users on the forum. Well known cheaters caught on video are getting 24 hr shadow bans as a "warning" but naming and shaming them is an instant forum ban.

People keep hoping for the game they pledged for and every new release seems to be something completely tacked on to the game whilst a lot of the basic game mechanics are buggy, the content lacks depth and the mission system has always been woefully inadequate.

I think people are tired of hoping for the content they backed the game for and being let down. This is coming from an open pvp player so I assume it would be a lot worse for someone buying the game purely for the pve side of things.

arena if u remember was put in table on solo/open threadnought ;p
 
Stopping the use of bait and switch marketing tactics and getting their game reasonably bug free would be a good start.
No roadmap doesn't help either: I suspect that they don't give it because they know we wouldn't like what we'd read. Some very successful game companies disclose their content and future patches more than 6 months in advance and have it thouroughly tested before release.
When I play these days I feel like I'm on a Public Test Server. I find a bug every 5 minutes.
 
I ask for the thread rules to be respected please, I recognise this is a particularly troublesome topic and I'd like for myself (and possibly Frontier if they read it) to know everyone's opinion. The rules are to help us not degenerate into argument.
 
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IMO a Kickstarter in association with a PLC company (that has to run and handle itself in a very specific fashion) do not go together very well. The biggest frustration is communication. Everything is secret. I can understand it from a marketing point of view - exclusivities etc.. But apart from that I really don't understand the top secret way the company is run.

Ed can't say ANYTHING when he streams. Michael responds to everyone in as few words as humanly possible and wrapped in ambiguity. And even then its just to calm whatever storm is brewing on the forums in a given moment. Nobody from Frontier comes on the forums willingly to engage with us. No behind the scenes videos. No 'real' dev updates. The Q&A's with Braben seemed shallow IMHO. The company has no soul. It has no real connection with its community despite what they might think. This probably deeply hurts those involved to hear it. But as a backer - its how I feel. Before they reached their Kickstarter goal it was the complete opposite. We had videos nearly every day, David Braben behind the camera doing Q&A's and promises of involvement in the design of the game. The future was bright. Now its dark and full of terrors.

CQC and Powerplay were never mentioned in the DDF. But then again.. the DDF was a joke.

In hindsight the mix of PLC run company and Kickstarter should have made me think twice before handing over a large amount of money.

I personally feel deeply let down by David Braben for selling out and looking after his shareholders more than his fans. But then again.. isn't that his job?
 
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Why do we ALWAYS react negatively to whatever's put out. Updates. New Content.

Is it our fault? Are we too sensitive?

Or are Frontier to blame?

Question 1: What in your opinion could we do better to not go on a raging bender whenever something new is unveiled?

Question 2: What in your opinion could Frontier do better to not having us go on a raging bender whenever something new is unvieled?

Thread rules, answer the questions and only the questions. Keep it civil. Calm and remember I'm as guilty as anyone else as going on the odd rage/delusion. No comments on anyone elses answers.

I think it's partly a perception on your part - it's true of internet forums in general.

1. The people who are reacting negatively stick in your mind more.

2. In general, there's a self-selection bias when it comes to reactions on forums, or generally in comments on anything anywhere. People who are pleased about something are far less likely to go out of their way to make a post about it. Whereas someone who has a beef, or wants to indulge a self-righteous rant or simply stir things up are by definition more likely to post.

3. There is a general attitude among a lot of consumers today that can be summarised with the phrase 'the squeaky wheel gets the grease'. It basically comes down to a belief that the stick is much better than the carrot. Don't congratulate the developers too much or they may get complacent. Shout and scream and act as indignant and self-righteous as possible, make all the noise you can, to make sure those developers keep working to your satisfaction, tear apart anything they do, because criticism will make them improve everything. Don't let them rest, complain as much as you can, keep beating them to do what you want. It's curious that anyone thinks this is a good way of getting results from anyone.


Having said that, these forums aren't that bad. There's a lot of threads which are simply requests for help or explanation. The complaint threads just naturally tend to stick in the mind more. They're certainly a lot better than some places I've seen. My god, you wouldn't believe some of the stuff I saw on forums for a certain space sim/spreadsheet simulator that's been popular for over a decade. There were deliberate attempts to game the system - pirates trying to make the developers change the rules to suit them, traders doing the same thing, simply to see if their exploit could be implemented. This wasn't done to improve the game generally - it was considered part of the game to work on the forums to try and destroy the developers' intent merely to gain some exploitable advantage. As an example of sheer toxicity and cynical short-sightedness, I haven't seen anything to beat it. I'm sure there are players of that game who will try to do the same here, but that kind of attitude isn't anything like as omnipresent as it was there.

For all that people claim they do, I haven't noticed Frontier massively changing the game to suit whichever loud-mouthed minority is making the most noise in the forums at any given time. They have reams of behind-the-scenes data about who and how many are playing, doing what, when and for how long. They also have their own vision of the game and so far I'm pretty much happy with what they've done and I'm not going to pretend to know how to do it better than them. I'm not a game developer, so I don't know how they did it, but they've managed to make a game that has stopped me playing any other game for any significant length of time for the last six months. That has never happened to me before.

I think your problem is in saying 'us'. You're throwing all of 'us' together, when naturally someone somewhere is not going to be happy and will say so - but that doesn't mean they speak for everyone.

Honestly, I think the game being on another platform is a good thing. The arena looks fun, though I'm not likely to play it much (unless it can make me cold hard in game! Hah!)... but it's an addition to existing gameplay, not a replacement. It adds something without taking anything away. If I don't want to play it, there's already a huge game out there for me to swim around in. Complaining about it is just stupid - which is my opinion. Other people are welcome to disagree.

We aren't all one person. So in answer to your question - I don't think there's anything 'we' could do better, since 'we' don't exist as an entity that makes collective decisions. And I'm pretty certain Frontier know that too, and know that someone somewhere is going to have a hissy fit even if they announce they've made a 1:1 scale virtual galaxy where you can literally walk around in 3301, do any job and go anywhere, taste a chocolate ice cream when you virtually eat it and a free Oculus Rift and gaming rig for everyone on the planet. They're never going to please everybody.

And if there are people around from the aforementioned spreadsheet simulator game, they'll likely complain simply to try to achieve some goal of their own unrelated to improving the game.
 
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arena if u remember was put in table on solo/open threadnought ;p

Hence why I mentioned unofficially ;)

If you read the ddf most of us fist pump and go "Yes!" this is the game we want. It looks like FD said that's great but we'll add in two unrelated things whilst the rest of us are sitting back thinking "um what the hell happened?".

What about the solo/pve players wanting npc wing men? They've been promised that since 1.2. Special weapons? So many times we hear FD mention features as "it's on the list but we don't know when" and then the next release comes out and there's still nothing from the list.

They have an excellent game design document there going to waste that people are already hyped about. They have to have all the secrecy and hype about the new un announced stuff because noone was expecting it. Once it's in the game they can't take it out so players learn to live with it.

It's like buying sausages with sawdust to make up for the lack of meat. People will end up shouting "hey the saw dust isn't that bad and it does fill you up" but in the long run anyone with any taste will move on as we've already had a list of ingredients for our sausages and it seems like the cook is making it up as he goes along.
 
Why do we ALWAYS react negatively to whatever's put out. Updates. New Content.

Is it our fault? Are we too sensitive?

Or are Frontier to blame?

Question 1: What in your opinion could we do better to not go on a raging bender whenever something new is unveiled?

Question 2: What in your opinion could Frontier do better to not having us go on a raging bender whenever something new is unvieled?

Thread rules, answer the questions and only the questions. Keep it civil. Calm and remember I'm as guilty as anyone else as going on the odd rage/delusion. No comments on anyone elses answers.

1. Stop trying to figure out where things are going and when they will occur. The speculation of people is fine...but stop taking the speculation to heart. The other thing is get over the sense of entitlement. You bought a game..you are entitled to one thing...whatever the devs bring to you as the game. That's it. Your opinion could have a doctoral thesis and thousands of hours of reading and bibliographies to support it. It doesn't matter. The devs are writing the code and the game.

2. Nothing. Market it, unveil it, fix it, move on. Pretty much what they have done for each and every update and release so far. They realize that no matter what they do...someone is going on a raging bender. So the easiest thing to do is what they are doing, which is what almost every other game development company does. Want a case study on this...go look at the way Arenanet started...their community responses to game changes and their subsequent changes to policy to information dispersal and marketing.

- - - Updated - - -

Hence why I mentioned unofficially ;)

If you read the ddf most of us fist pump and go "Yes!" this is the game we want. It looks like FD said that's great but we'll add in two unrelated things whilst the rest of us are sitting back thinking "um what the hell happened?".

What about the solo/pve players wanting npc wing men? They've been promised that since 1.2. Special weapons? So many times we hear FD mention features as "it's on the list but we don't know when" and then the next release comes out and there's still nothing from the list.

They have an excellent game design document there going to waste that people are already hyped about. They have to have all the secrecy and hype about the new un announced stuff because noone was expecting it. Once it's in the game they can't take it out so players learn to live with it.

It's like buying sausages with sawdust to make up for the lack of meat. People will end up shouting "hey the saw dust isn't that bad and it does fill you up" but in the long run anyone with any taste will move on as we've already had a list of ingredients for our sausages and it seems like the cook is making it up as he goes along.

So when is your departure date...and can i haz ur stuff when you go? ;)
 
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Hence why I mentioned unofficially ;)

If you read the ddf most of us fist pump and go "Yes!" this is the game we want. It looks like FD said that's great but we'll add in two unrelated things whilst the rest of us are sitting back thinking "um what the hell happened?".

What about the solo/pve players wanting npc wing men? They've been promised that since 1.2. Special weapons? So many times we hear FD mention features as "it's on the list but we don't know when" and then the next release comes out and there's still nothing from the list.

They have an excellent game design document there going to waste that people are already hyped about. They have to have all the secrecy and hype about the new un announced stuff because noone was expecting it. Once it's in the game they can't take it out so players learn to live with it.

It's like buying sausages with sawdust to make up for the lack of meat. People will end up shouting "hey the saw dust isn't that bad and it does fill you up" but in the long run anyone with any taste will move on as we've already had a list of ingredients for our sausages and it seems like the cook is making it up as he goes along.

in some cases to make move along isnt bad ...the thing is how they do it and when ;)
 
Question 1: What in your opinion could we do better to not go on a raging bender whenever something new is unveiled?

Well, people who are on a raging bender are more likely to post.
Example - E3 announcement arena thing... i thought oh ok might be fun sometimes, and maybe lots of kids will get mummy to buy them the game for their console so Frontier get more cash and can improve the core game more.
i.e. no raging bender (probably like many others who post here or lurk here who also had no desire for a raging bender) so no real compulsion to start a thread saying the announcement is load of sh*te.

The real time to worry is when nobody cares enough about the game to go on a raging bender at all.
 

SlackR

Banned
It's all about the marketing for me. David needs a better spin doctor... They are way out of their league. Not only do they have an awesome game on their hands but they also have a large number of people who paid a substantial amount more for it than it was worth to get it build in the first place.

Keeping the original backers appeased and feeling their money was well spent will always be a difficult task and juggling that with creating more revenue - doubly so.

Star Citizen are able to milk their backers over and over by selling them more and more ships, but serious income for frontier (merch and skins not withstanding) means finding a wider player base whose expectations are vastly different from those original backers.

So there are a bunch of factors as to why people are upset IMO but the way Frontier handle those factors currently makes things worse not better.

It's not an enviable task, but I do think it could be played out much smoother than it currently is. i love DB and respect him as a designer and programmer, but he should leave the marketing to someone far less English! :)
 
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