Elite: Dangerous Media Revelations...
- Thread starter JeffRyan
- Start date
They could announce full and complete unabridged implementation of every last dot in the DDA tomorrow and they'd still be whinging about why it's not here this evening.
erm, they could fix the "take wingman target" thing and the "select next system in route" button that has never worked for me from the start, and perhaps I'll feel a little more positive?
Criticism of the entier "Frontier" edifice, I'm sure every individual is slaving away over a hot keyboard with a to-do list a mile long and the big money men saying "give us a giant release to announce and *** the bugs, we already have their money."
Criticism of the entier "Frontier" edifice, I'm sure every individual is slaving away over a hot keyboard with a to-do list a mile long and the big money men saying "give us a giant release to announce and *** the bugs, we already have their money."
That one's easy: Don't go on a raging bender whenever something new is unveiled.
It's 100% in the power of the individual to conduct themselves with a modicum of social grace.
That's a trick question.
The manner in which we conduct ourselves is 100% our responsibility.
Uh actually take a well calculated consensus from the population with varied results and an array of answers on what the community thinks could make this game better, and combine that to what the dev's think on how they can take the game further. Compared to biased poll with favorable answers from one source?
and stop being butt-hurt about side content.
and stop always settling to the lowest denominator like the Ladder-Fixed Number Reward System
and stop being butt-hurt about side content.
and stop always settling to the lowest denominator like the Ladder-Fixed Number Reward System
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My honest and realistic assessment, and answers to both questions: not much. This is an Internet forum of a game developer, and will always be more negative than positive now that the game's formally launched. Unfortunately.
Note: you wouldn't have posted these questions a year ago when the game was still in alpha/beta. Different subset of the population involved - enthusiastic backers. The unwashed masses have since joined the forums.
Note: you wouldn't have posted these questions a year ago when the game was still in alpha/beta. Different subset of the population involved - enthusiastic backers. The unwashed masses have since joined the forums.
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To me the problem isn't the user base, the user base is reacting to a promise made by the developers.. They promised to communicate, to talk to interact and they don't.
They bait and switch and it upsets people
All that most people want is OPEN communication, a road map this is where we are, this is where we want to be in a year.. but Frontier don't do that they instead say one thing hint at another and do something completely different then wonder why people get upset.
They bait and switch and it upsets people
All that most people want is OPEN communication, a road map this is where we are, this is where we want to be in a year.. but Frontier don't do that they instead say one thing hint at another and do something completely different then wonder why people get upset.
i think its a lack of communication from frontier since the game "launched" that has caused much of the problems, as well as a lack of any sort of road map, or even a vague projection of the future from them. since launch, we have been left in the dark. that is where a lot of the frustration and anger has been coming from.
Again, a road map is the absolute worst thing they could implement. Plans change, things get put back, other things need prioritising, coding problems need longer to resolve than anticipated - and you can never get someone on the internet to appreciate this. If FD published a roadmap the first thing would happen would be the forums shrieking, howling and stamping their feet over why their specific features aren't first in the queue for implementation... and then any deviation from the roadmap, for any reason, would have the forums shrieking, howling and stamping their feet over "betrayal". Who other than an outright masochist would swim in the festering pit that is Dangerous Discussion?
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Tar Stone
Banned
We've seen the first two items from their roadmap, and I'm not interested in seeing any more. It's very clear where they're going. It's their game, good luck to them, David Braben will retire a very wealthy man. The original Elite from 1984 by Braben & Bell will continue to remain the definitive open ended space game and Elite Dangerous by Braben & Brookes will continue to leave a very bitter taste in the mouths of those who helped get it off the ground.
i think it has allot to do whit us,
looking at game forums of games that has a younger demographic they are generally much more positive and friendly.
there is a few exceptions here though and games that are very competitive such as LOL and DOTA have their fair share of forum rage too,
but generally speaking it seems to me that its something that increases whit age, and maybe its not so strange that its bad here as Elite has the oldest demographic of the games currently on the market.
looking at game forums of games that has a younger demographic they are generally much more positive and friendly.
there is a few exceptions here though and games that are very competitive such as LOL and DOTA have their fair share of forum rage too,
but generally speaking it seems to me that its something that increases whit age, and maybe its not so strange that its bad here as Elite has the oldest demographic of the games currently on the market.
Frankly, the level of dishonesty is incredible. However, this thread alone was bound to contain a self-selection bias for negativity anyway, so it's hardly surprising.
Feel free to say that Frontier have betrayed you, lied to you, have failed to deliver and declare that they will never deliver what was promised.
I hope Frontier feel free to treat that with the absolute contempt it deserves, and interpret it for what it really means. Which is...
"Even though it was made clear that it would take time to deliver the extras like walking in ships and stations, planetary landing, etc, and that it was stated from the very beginning that these would be paid expansions to the game on release, I want these features now and I hate Frontier for working on other features as well. If I scream and shout loud enough, accuse them of criminality and threaten them with my hatred, I should be able to force them to do what I want right now, despite them saying two years ago that they'd need more time than this. The tactics of a squalling spoiled infant have always worked for me in the past."
Feel free to say that Frontier have betrayed you, lied to you, have failed to deliver and declare that they will never deliver what was promised.
I hope Frontier feel free to treat that with the absolute contempt it deserves, and interpret it for what it really means. Which is...
"Even though it was made clear that it would take time to deliver the extras like walking in ships and stations, planetary landing, etc, and that it was stated from the very beginning that these would be paid expansions to the game on release, I want these features now and I hate Frontier for working on other features as well. If I scream and shout loud enough, accuse them of criminality and threaten them with my hatred, I should be able to force them to do what I want right now, despite them saying two years ago that they'd need more time than this. The tactics of a squalling spoiled infant have always worked for me in the past."
I'm surprised you've been so consistently on my side. I tend to annoy everyone on every side of every fence at some point.
For me part of the response here 'it's the internet, we always cry' is fair to an extent, but on the other hand I disagree with the others who think that FD aren't making any mistakes.
The /hope/ I had for this thread was for constructive criticism in one place, but Pecisk's thread dealing with this issue seems to have had more the type of response I was looking for here.
So whilst I agree with Kremmen's point that we should try and control ourselves more when stuff is released. I disagree with the point that Frontier don't really have any learning to do. Frontier ALWAYS play their cards close to their chest and whilst that's fine to a point, they're far more cautious than other developers. Things like Steam launch not going announced or XBOX release date coming on the day of the XBOX release...
Sometimes it works (Steam seems to be going fine) sometimes it bites them in the ass (Offlinegate was a definite low point).
I have hope they'll strike the right balance but only if they become aware their current balance isn't right.
Addendum: Obviously some people haven't read my other posts on the current state of affairs. In brief, I welcome the XBOX release, have no issue with CQC being an exclusive and look forward to it coming. I love Power Play, but admit it has some definite flaws. So I'm not actually on a rage bender myself right now. But I don't disagree that some of this could have been avoided if FD ever got their PR department to strike the right balance. What I do want to see is some stupid stuff that adds depth, Contacts, NPCs, Ship-naming...
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It's a long-long streak of disappointments for some. First, I noticed some people nearly deifying dev. team: 30 years of waiting, "I kept the faith".. etc. Blasphemy, I shout!
Then, release was postponed for 9 months (I bought the premium beta in January with approx. release date in 31 March), offline-gate, shallowness of design, background simulation fiasco, power play ... bits and pieces falling off, like leaves from the trees in autumn. Naturally, with such heavy delays and deviations from the initial plan, fertilised by the absence of a road map, amplified by religiosity of "the core" and now a clear middle finger: "only on xbox" -- there you are, people are upset.
Surprising, that people's natural reaction to being treated unfairly is discontent, yes? Now, what can we do?
Option number 1: Shut down the forums. And the whole internet for that matter. Stuff ain't no good anyhow.
Option number 2: FD rethinks the way it does some things. There is no need for expert opinion here, grown ups know what's the deal.
Option number 3: FD doesn't re-think anything, people keep raging, but who gives a.. <---- the cheapest option !!!
Oke, I vote that option 3 will persist. Such is life.
I'm surprised you've been so consistently on my side. I tend to annoy everyone on every side of every fence at some point.
For me part of the response here 'it's the internet, we always cry' is fair to an extent, but on the other hand I disagree with the others who think that FD aren't making any mistakes.
The /hope/ I had for this thread was for constructive criticism in one place, but Pecisk's thread dealing with this issue seems to have had more the type of response I was looking for here.
So whilst I agree with Kremmen's point that we should try and control ourselves more when stuff is released. I disagree with the point that Frontier don't really have any learning to do. Frontier ALWAYS play their cards close to their chest and whilst that's fine to a point, they're far more cautious than other developers. Things like Steam launch not going announced or XBOX release date coming on the day of the XBOX release...
Sometimes it works (Steam seems to be going fine) sometimes it bites them in the ass (Offlinegate was a definite low point).
I have hope they'll strike the right balance but only if they become aware their current balance isn't right.
Addendum: Obviously some people haven't read my other posts on the current state of affairs. In brief, I welcome the XBOX release, have no issue with CQC being an exclusive and look forward to it coming. I love Power Play, but admit it has some definite flaws. So I'm not actually on a rage bender myself right now. But I don't disagree that some of this could have been avoided if FD ever got their PR department to strike the right balance. What I do want to see is some stupid stuff that adds depth, Contacts, NPCs, Ship-naming...
I think to be fair, this may partly be a matter of timing. Yes, they've been playing their cards close to their chests. But today is literally just after day one of E3 2015 - are they even awake yet over there? It could be that they're reserving some more revelations for succeeding days. It'd be hard to blame them for trying to hold off on making big reveals until they were at the biggest gaming event of the year - it's the best way of advertising the game and publicising their news. I think I'll just wait and see.
As for the general intent of your OP, you didn't seem especially rabid; I thought it was pretty reasonable - it was some of the more predictable responses that made me facepalm. You did somewhat load your initial question, as someone pointed out, by saying 'ALWAYS'
I did give a more measured response earlier in the thread about that. I don't think there's any point in trying to arrange some collective decision on how we ought to behave, because we aren't a single entity who can make collective decisions. We're all just a bunch of individuals talking on a forum, and opinions will vary. That's just the nature of people talking together. And I tried to point out that there tend to be self-selection biases for negativity when it comes to posting on the internet (as I'm sure many of you are aware).
We all should understand that FD is a business, and business needs to make money. ED is one of the products, and like any other product it needs to bring money and "the bigger audience is covered more money it will bring". All complaints about "so it is all about the money now/ever... etc" are just plain stupid, simply because no matter how much FD love ED and we love ED the game will develop only if it is successful financially. To be successful it needs more way for sales as well as quality of the product.
Any deals with companies like MS always have "additional demands" and agreements that certain information won't be shown to public till MS/other allows it to be. Deal with it, because benefits outweighs cons with those deals. Don't take it personally, think wider.
Second - Understand that we and FD really need a LOT less rage & whining on forums. If not for obvious reasons, then just because it is boring. Constructive criticism and positive thinking (not foolish optimism) = that what will help everyone in short and long run.
And every time someone feels urgent need to make a post based on "client = always right" and/or "I gave you my money gddmd!!!11 do this now....!" and/or "this is a last drop for me, I quit/break/whatever" or complain/whine - just stop, take a look around, go outside your apartment/house, see something/someone or do anything that will make you feel better, happier. Because your negativity won't do any good, not for you nor for anyone else.
Like Rootsrat wrote: "Have more trust in Frontier."
Everyone else, who didn't find themselves above - keep going! You make this game and forums better.
First of all, FD needs to keep doing what they are doing the best - develop this fantastic game "Elite: Dangerous" further and further. And don't forget to tell us about it.
Second - No need for roadmaps or anything like this. Faces and voices can make any information much more exciting and appealing. FD should bring "Dev diaries" back and maybe something extra, like "Lore diaries". Make them every week, and add some of the "community creations" in the end of the video every time. It will make everything better, visuals will make informations much more understandable and interesting. When ppl read, they can interpret informations not the way in was posted because of their mood, other thoughts or whatever. In videos - there are emotions, intonations, faces and other nonverbal things that help. And the most important - your community will feel those additional efforts and it will show how you care about your community/clients. Combine it with newsletters, community website and social media - and you have pretty much all covered.
And the last one - you most definitely can do better than this
Don't let emotions of some displeased clients push you out of professional behaviour.