Frontier: Don't waste the E3 opportunity, please learn your market.

What's happening to Elite? Powerplay, and now CQC. Both are fine really. I don't mind, especially CQC. Unlike powerplay I really can ignore it. It's a good thing. But... why? Why do this? Where are we headed?

You're at E3. Go out and try some other games. To play the new Mad Max game, or Assassins Creed, or For Honor, or Uncharted 4.

Have a look, have a go. Please. Not because those games are better (although they might well be), but because they're different. Go try something completely different to Elite. Look at the car chase battles in Mad Max. Or at that new AC: Syndicate trailer, I can't stop watching it.

They have the adrenaline pumping heroic action game completely covered. You're NEVER going to be able to compete with them on that front. NEVER. And Mad Max and AC: Syndicate are also sandboxes, which they do pretty well. Mad Max in particular looks to be Elite: Desert, only with something Elite doesn't have a lot of; character.

Do you know who likes your games? People like us. People who want to shuttle around goods in a living universe. People who don't mind quietly exploring the deep and vast unknown. People who find a peculiar alure in being a thousand light-years from anyone, finding a black hole for the first time. People who like to pop out on unsuspecting others and pirate them in a ship 12x more powerful.

People who enjoy the cold, dark, emptiness of space. Not people who enjoy the warm, colourful, and noisy world of one thrill after another.

Of course there is an overlap. I LOVE the Assassins Creed games (Unity aside). I have put 841 hours into Skyrim and 179 hours into Farcry 3, somehow. So yes, it doesn't necessarily follow that because we'll like Assassins Creed we wouldn't like Elite. But that's not the point.

The point is that if I want to roleplay as a space captain, moving through uncharted territory, carefully selecting the best outfit for my rickety old space ship, I have Elite. But increasingly it looks like, at some point soon, I won't. You're saying "Come play this with your mates! Come have a blast! Engage in an exhilarating rush through space in the best fighty fights of fights ever held outside of an atmosphere!"

Maybe this will work? Who really knows? But I know one thing. Right now, we are your market. We are the ones who are buying paint jobs and (maybe) expansions. No, I am not saying you are beholden to us or that you owe us anything. This isn't a thread of entitlement.

This is a thread of warning: If you think you're going to draw people away from those other games to play Elite, by emulating the excitement you can get from those games, you're sadly mistaken, and you may lose us in the attempt to do this.

I'm not asking you to believe me because I've said this. I don't even know if this is true myself to be honest. I am a random internet commenter, and I could well be a homeless person with an enormous beard posting from a public library for all you know. So take my warning with a pinch of salt...

...I am just asking you to go play those other games, go enjoy the rest of E3. Then come back to your desks, and decide how you're going to compete with those games. The ONLY realistic way, in my opinion - don't be like them.
 
As a developer I can't help but worry that Braben and co. have lost sight of the core aspect of Elite and the game is suffering feature creep that was never part of the original design but someone thought it would be "cool" to add them as they would appeal to a larger audience.

This video is a fine analogy of video game development and how feature creep can completely change the face of your game if you don't stick to your core aspects:

[video=youtube;aXQ2lO3ieBA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXQ2lO3ieBA[/video]
 
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I'm not asking you to believe me because I've said this. I don't even know if this is true myself to be honest. I am a random internet commenter, and I could well be a homeless person with an enormous beard posting from a public library for all you know.

Please tell me that's true. The rest of it is (but I ran out of +rep).
 
Yeah it's kind of frustrating that the income for the different core careers in elite is so disproportioned and still lacking depth while they role out gimmicky new features like cqc and pp (just my opinion). I think many on this forum would agree that the next major update to elite should focus on expanding and improving the core game and not adding any more features until the core game is ironed out.
 
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Yeah it's kind of frustrating that the income for the different core careers in elite is so disproportioned and still lacking depth while they role out gimmicky new features like cqc and pp (just my opinion). I think many on this forum would agree that the next major update to elite should focus on expanding and improving the core game and not adding any more features until the core game is ironed out.

Couldn't agree more.. Addition of wing, now PP, and soon CQC... While from over a year there is huge disbalance in game economics... If they really want draw more players they should finney polish they game, and add more features to cooperate, not compete...
 
Yeah it's kind of frustrating that the income for the different core careers in elite is so disproportioned and still lacking depth while they role out gimmicky new features like cqc and pp (just my opinion). I think many on this forum would agree that the next major update to elite should focus on expanding and improving the core game and not adding any more features until the core game is ironed out.

The game isn't lacking in scale, it's lacking in depth. Add complex, multi-stage, multi-role, branching missions. Add NPC contacts. Add living, working NPC ships/economies. Add mysterious objects, wrecks, abandoned space stations. Add FSD malfunctions, mis-jumps and rescue missions. (Okay, add Thargoids.)
 
I think the sad fact is that what once could have been the best role playing space exploration game ever made* is slowly being turned into Call of Duty in space.

*It may still be if they sort out the missions system and fix the underlying problems instead of adding gimmicks.
 
Couldn't agree more.. Addition of wing, now PP, and soon CQC... While from over a year there is huge disbalance in game economics... If they really want draw more players they should finney polish they game, and add more features to cooperate, not compete...

They don't need more players.

If they need more revenue then they should swallow their pride and say that, and re-open a kickstarter or some sort of donation thingy. If they have enough revenue but just want more, because, you know, money, then they're betting their future on Elite being the next biggest thing.

And as I said in the Op there is simply NO CHANCE of them managing this.

Powerplay, a pretty quirky board game tacked on, almost broke Elite with the bugs. Yes, AAA games these days are laden with bugs too, but they are all vastly larger than Elite Dangerous in depth, complexity, and scope. They don't have the resources or team to manage this.

If they are trying to increase the userbase of Elite: Dangerous by making it all things to all gamers they are doomed to failure.
 
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100% honestly, PP is OK. Not terrific. It does give a kind of political feel to the game, and adds faces to the otherwise faceless galaxy (unless you think the back of an Adder looks like Marvin the Paranoid Android). But it lacks a lot of fun, and PP is politics, so is never going to have you giggling the way that firing off a Plasma Accelerator at a Sidewinder does. Having better NPC chatter, and deeper more intense missions with many more mission types is where I think it's at. Things that don't matter if they're Open/Solo. Things that you can start doing on Monday morning and finish on Thursday afternoon. Missions that take you more than 4Ly, and have you really working for your Cr. Missions that are deep enough that if you take on 3 or 4, you'll be moving, buying/selling, fighting or running and engaging with the galaxy properly.

The XboxOne release is, IMO, a fabulous addition to the game, but it feels as though PP has left FD lacking a bit of momentum. Maybe prepping for E3 and the XB1 release was more work than I gave them credit for, and we ARE just "the customer", but something needs to start to pick up a bit now if they want to get ED onto the "proper" XB1 shop, and get us playing the game, rather than sitting wondering "what next?"
 
I think you all need to calm down a little bit. From my vantage point - and I played the original and have been with the current game since the beginning of PB - Elite is getting better and better with each new release. Yes, I really mean that. It's not the same game that David released in the 80s; it's bigger AND better. And the best part: there's more to come. Adding new features will undoubtedly expand the player base, and that can ONLY be a good thing in that it will increase the financial viability of the title going forward, which will see us enjoying it longer. We're at the beginning of something really cool, and I have FULL confidence that it'll get better - even for those of you who don't agree with every nuance of every design decision along the way. Rock on, Frontier!
 
It's not the same game that David released in the 80s; it's bigger AND better. And the best part: there's more to come.

Yes. That's the issue. It's bigger... better.. faster... stronger... MOOOARRR! There are so many games like that already, and they're all so much better than Elite.

Adding new features will undoubtedly expand the player base, and that can ONLY be a good thing in that it will increase the financial viability of the title going forward, which will see us enjoying it longer.

Well the feature of powerplay did expand the playerbase, but not of this game but a different game that entered early access last week.

Do you ever watch Jim Sterling? (NOTE: He swears a lot) Have a look at this. In trying to chase a massive yet fickle and highly competitive market they run the risk of alienating the safe and secure market they already have.
 
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I think you all need to calm down a little bit. From my vantage point - and I played the original and have been with the current game since the beginning of PB - Elite is getting better and better with each new release. Yes, I really mean that. It's not the same game that David released in the 80s; it's bigger AND better. And the best part: there's more to come. Adding new features will undoubtedly expand the player base, and that can ONLY be a good thing in that it will increase the financial viability of the title going forward, which will see us enjoying it longer. We're at the beginning of something really cool, and I have FULL confidence that it'll get better - even for those of you who don't agree with every nuance of every design decision along the way. Rock on, Frontier!

I do agree with you to an extent, all i'm saying is myself and many other people on the forum feel that the core game has been neglected in lieu of all these new features we have been getting. The major complaint that most professional reviewers make about ED is not that it doesn't have enough things to do, but that it just lacks depth and there is missed or unrealised opportunities right there in the game already.

Give us the ability to bounty hunt and track an actual player, not wait for a random player, who may have a bounty or may not, just happen to show up.
Give us a reason to go mining
Give us a way to initiate an act of piracy through an ingame mechanic, not just chat, so that it is easier for new players and gives us the ability to pirate NPCs
Give us a proper trading UI, like that of the wonderful TCE mod
Give us an economic incentive to go exploring and more complex and rewarding exploring missions

These are all things that will be so much better than any PP, CQC, wings or any other new feature.

Just my 2c
 
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What really needs to be muscular now are the missions. Sort this out and then it all falls into place for me.

What really needs to happen now is for Frontier to find out who it is they want to appeal to with this project, focus on them, and regain a sense of direction.

The game is going all over the place.
 
I am really confused, I am an '84er, I keep being told that the direction the game is going is going to alienate me but I am finding I am enjoying it more? I also keep being told that the original Elite was all about exploring and adventure when I liked trading and shooting things.... What an I doing wrong?
 
I am really confused, I am an '84er, I keep being told that the direction the game is going is going to alienate me but I am finding I am enjoying it more?

Don't listen to people who keep telling you that and carry on enjoying the game obviously.

I also keep being told that the original Elite was all about exploring and adventure when I liked trading and shooting things.... What an I doing wrong?

You obviously like a good shooter then. You should take a look at the new Battlefront space combat (when it's available).
 
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What really needs to happen now is for Frontier to find out who it is they want to appeal to with this project, focus on them, and regain a sense of direction.

The game is going all over the place.

I can sort of see your point, but using the sandbox analogy, if the sandbox is the galaxy then PP, CQC must be different toys to play with in that sandbox.

The gameworld is huge, and perhaps it can host a wide range of players without overlap? I see CQC as more of a sixth profession- sort of a gladiator.
 
I can sort of see your point, but using the sandbox analogy, if the sandbox is the galaxy then PP, CQC must be different toys to play with in that sandbox.

That would work, but it isn't very sandboxy-style or flexible. PP is very poorly applied and lacks any depth to it, if you're trying to be immersed in roleplay. If you're trying to play a boardgame or MMO-type grind then it has appeal. So it looks like they're putting in different things to please different groups.

The gameworld is huge, and perhaps it can host a wide range of players without overlap? I see CQC as more of a sixth profession- sort of a gladiator.

It can't. It can accomodate a wide range of players who enjoy different forms of immersion and roleplay in a space-themed setting, but that is the limit of it. It can't, for example, accomodate people who enjoy pure PvP and people who like PvE roleplay and immersion - the Solo vs Open megathreads are indicative of what happens when you try to compromise.

Now it looks like they're in the process of compromising even more of the game in order to appeal to other, potentially completely different, gaming demographics. What I want them to do is to play other games again, as gamers. See how games find their own particular character and how they appeal to the people who play them.

In particular I'd like Frontier to see how, for example, including laser guns in Assassins Creed would be a massive failure. Or see how having Batman ride a horse through Arkham Knight would completely ruin the game.

Those things don't really fit do they?

They HAD Elite. It was shallow and there wasn't a whole lot there, but they had something. Now they have Elite: With Added Risk in Space, which is a distraction which hasn't really appealed to the core players. It has pushed a handful of people away and certainly won't draw any players to it (nobody will play this game purely for powerplay). Now they've got a little side game. World of Tanks in Space.

None of the elements are fitting together well. At the moment they can be ignored, for the most part. What about the next bright idea which comes in an effort to draw more people to the game? Capture the flag?

I don't think it's unfair to say at this point that they've become unfocussed.
 
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