Frontier: Don't waste the E3 opportunity, please learn your market.

Tinman

Tinman
Rubbernuke said:
I can sort of see your point, but using the sandbox analogy, if the sandbox is the galaxy then PP, CQC must be different toys to play with in that sandbox.

The gameworld is huge, and perhaps it can host a wide range of players without overlap? I see CQC as more of a sixth profession- sort of a gladiator.
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Yep...a huge open game world reflecting humanity in the future with sports being something people enjoy...humans liking SPORTS in the future!?!? That's just crazy!!

:D

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FuzzySpider said:
In particular I'd like Frontier to see how, for example, including laser guns in Assassins Creed would be a massive failure. Or see how having Batman ride a horse through Arkham Knight would completely ruin the game.

Those things don't really fit do they?
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No they don't, but are they including horseback riding in Elite? How about swordfights?

They aren't!? Oh...in that case your analogy is really really bad. ;)
 
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FuzzySpider

FuzzySpider
Tinman said:
No they don't, but are they including horseback riding in Elite? How about swordfights?

They aren't!? Oh...in that case your analogy is really really bad. ;)
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No, but they are including an arcade style arena in a RPG immersion sandbox. They've also overlaid a boardgame into the same universe.

Horseback riding can't be all that far behind. ;)

Ok, granted, a lazy analogy. But it's the only one I can think of this afternoon.
 

slashgoh

slashgoh
All this stuff: PP, QCQ, doing Elite for consoles, and many other surprising addition that will came in the future, tell us that FD lost its initial way and that they would like to attract a younger customer base.
I agree to all your statements and I think that we will have to hope that ED competitor games will not fall in the same mistake.
At the moment I think that a really good "depth" addition from FD to Elite Dangerous (like a good expansion for example) is very unlikely.
 

SentineI

SentineI
Ice30 said:
gimmicky new features like cqc and pp (just my opinion). I think many on this forum would agree that the next major update to elite should focus on expanding and improving the core game and not adding any more features until the core game is ironed out.
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IMHO the major updates from fdev (pp, wings, cg) were attempts to fix some major issues that ED v1.0 had:

Wings+CG: Tried to fix the severe lack of multiplayer interaction in what was purported to be a multiplayer game (they were partially successful). I think fdev thought that multiplayer interaction was likely to keep people interested in ED for longer than whatever mission enhancements they could achieve in a similar timeframe. I think they were right (because to date people have quickly tired of any improvements to the available missions).

PP: While this obviously aimed to improve mutliplayer interaction further (successfully I think), what is often overlooked is that it also improved Super Cruise a lot. Before PP flying in SC was a mostly boring experience, because there was little incentive for players to interdict each other, and unless your dropped-out at a USS nothing much else happened in SC. Now players pledged to different powers have incentive to go after other players in SC, and mission targets (from both bulletin-board & powers) can be found in SC. Given that you could easily spend most of your ED gaming time in SC, this is a massive improvement to the game.

And they also fixed lots of smaller issues in all those updates.

So fdev have now (mostly) solved the problems of boring SC & lack of multiplayer interaction. What's left to do before the major DLC expansions? Missions are the obvious answer and fdev have even stated that their new mission system is much more flexible & suitable for enhancements in the future. PP is merely testing that their reworked mission system hasn't broken (and I think it's been such a success that majority of players don't even realise the major under-the-hood changes that have occured).

TLDR: Frontier have fixed just about everything except the simplistic repetitive missions, so I strongly suspect better missions to be the focus of their next major update (v1.4). PowerPlay even put in the ground work necessary for it.
 
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Iskariot

Iskariot
peteuplink said:
As a developer I can't help but worry that Braben and co. have lost sight of the core aspect of Elite and the game is suffering feature creep that was never part of the original design but someone thought it would be "cool" to add them as they would appeal to a larger audience.
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I am a little bit worried too.

I want to see the universe filled in. I want more ambient atmosphere with unique npc ships around stations like tugs, utility vessels, repair ships tankers, military vessels, different types of bases and other installations. Imperial station designs, unique looking core systems with unique star ports. Larger complexes in space. Prisons, capital shipyards. More emergent gameplay.

I understand the need to go on other platforms, but this CQC thing could have waited. There is more important stuff to do.
 
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peteuplink

peteuplink
Iskariot said:
I am a little bit worried too.

I want to see the universe filled in. I want more ambient atmosphere with unique npc ships around stations, military vessels, different types of bases and other installations. Imperial station designs, unique looking core systems with unique star ports. Larger complexes in space. Prisons, capital shipyards. More emergent gameplay.

I understand the need to go on other platforms, but this CQC thing could have waited. There is more important stuff to do.
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This whole CQC thing looks like people at FDev have sat down and gone "Hey! The game is coming to Xbox One. Console gamers like their games to be more action based. You know what would be cool, and keep them from getting bored? An online multiplayer battle arena add-on!"

It's a misconception that a lot of developers (and gamers) have that console users prefer shallow, action based gameplay. I'm not knocking the CQC idea, but it should have been something that was added to the game after the main game was finished.

What would have been "cool" and stopped the new gamers getting bored would have been a deeper and more immersive universe. A deeper missions system. More diversity between the Empire, Alliance and Federation station designs, space weather, comets, asteroid fields with pirate bases hidden in them, events where you have to protect an outpost from a pirate raid... There's lots of stuff the could have added to the game before they felt the need to go down the MOBA route.
 
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Smugallo

Smugallo
Whats really getting my goat is the gamifying. yes, i know it is a computer game, but really it's a sci-fi space ship simulator. all the progress bars and powerplay stuff is just ruining the illusion now.
 

Ice30

Ice30
ChrisH said:
IMHO the major updates from fdev (pp, wings, cg) were attempts to fix some major issues that ED v1.0 had:

Wings+CG: Tried to fix the severe lack of multiplayer interaction in what was purported to be a multiplayer game (they were partially successfuly). I think fdev thought that multiplayer interaction was likely to keep people interested in ED for longer than whatever mission enhancements they could achieve in a similar timeframe. I think they were right (because to date people have quickly tired of any improvements to the available missions).

PP: While this obviously aimed to improving mutliplayer interaction further (successfully I think), what is often overlooked is that it also improved Super Cruise a lot. Before PP flying in SC was a mostly boring experience, because there was little incentive for players to interdict each other, and unless your dropped-out at a USS nothing much else happened in SC. Now players pledged to different powers have incentive to go after other players in SC, and mission targets (from both bulletin-board & powers) can be found in SC. Given that you could easily spend most of your ED gaming time in SC, this is a massive improvement to the game.

So fdev have now (mostly) solved the problems of boring SC & lack of multiplayer interaction. What's left to do before the major DLC expansions? Missions are the obvious answer and fdev have even stated that their new mission system is much more flexible & suitable for enhancements in the future. PP is merely testing that their reworked mission system hasn't broken (and I think it's been such a success that majority of players don't even realise the major under-the-hood changes that have occured).

TLDR: Frontier have fixed just about everything except the simplistic repetitive missions, so I strongly suspect better missions to be the focus of their next major update (v1.4). PowerPlay even put in the ground work necessary for it.
Click to expand...

I definitely think that wings and community goals has been one of the best additions to ED recently because it does add a degree of depth to standard gameplay. But when I think about what is still missing, I would gladly trade wings, pp and cqc in to have improvements to the core game, ie the advertised careers of pirateer, bounty hunter, miner, trader, explorer, smuggler, mercenary and assassin. I mean currently there is no distinction between an assassin and a bounty hunter, little distinction between a smuggler and a trader and the mercenary role is so dead in the water I forget it exists. All these advertised careers should be viable enterprises where a player can say I am a mercenary, or I am a miner and actually be successful at it and earn a fair, comparable and enticing income for doing it.

PP is just another thing to do, same with CQC, but its still built upon this universe that lacks depth and focus. So no, missions is not the answer, but it is part of it imo.

Don't get me wrong I still love ED, but I especially love what it has been trying to be from the beginning, before all these distractions started cropping up.
 

Comrade Napoleon

Comrade Napoleon
Why is it that in everything FD has done so far there has not been any depth in anything so far ?
EVERYTHING is shallow, event this,this... PP. is shallow. not one inch depth. its just mindblowing really.
yes I play still, but only because of flight model, love it. the rest is repetitive and in reality boring, because there is nothing new, or even chance of, around the corner.
Gratz FD , you have made a cool flight model and universe, very cool, but where is the frigging game !!!!!!
( ill just go play now, i use it as Zen , it soooooothes my mind, I even play Indian music to it , to get to the right state)

Cheers Cmdr's
 

peteuplink

peteuplink
Smugallo said:
Whats really getting my goat is the gamifying. yes, i know it is a computer game, but really it's a sci-fi space ship simulator. all the progress bars and powerplay stuff is just ruining the illusion now.
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Well, I'm going to play devils advocate here for a moment. I can'r speak for Power Play, but the CQC stuff could have been asked for by Microsoft. Maybe they liked ED but didn't think it was "shooty" enough and so wanted some sort of tacked on MOBA before they'd agree to an Xbox release.
 
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j0ssv8

J
hmmmmm..

SteveLaw said:
The game isn't lacking in scale, it's lacking in depth. Add complex, multi-stage, multi-role, branching missions. Add NPC contacts. Add living, working NPC ships/economies. Add mysterious objects, wrecks, abandoned space stations. Add FSD malfunctions, mis-jumps and rescue missions. (Okay, add Thargoids.)
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What they should've done, is have each console port, represent a different alien race...

XBONE = thargoids...

lol
 

TriumphANT

TriumphANT
FuzzySpider said:
What really needs to happen now is for Frontier to find out who it is they want to appeal to with this project, focus on them, and regain a sense of direction.

The game is going all over the place.
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The best way they could do that would be to poll the community. Create a series of polls/surveys, and target us. One things they should know is that we have opinions on our games. To put it another way, I haven't seen one person say "deeper missions would be a bad idea", so the writing is on the subway wall. They just need to work out a way to get it off there and into a developer's diary. Come one, get us talking to you. To paraphrase EA: we're in the game.
 

snoob

snoob
Lupin said:
Yes I can say I am worried that ED will turn into just another shoot-em up.
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wut? isn't it sorta already? How can CQC take away from whats already ingame? So it isn't currently a shoot em up? cuz I think its a pretty fun one.
 
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wolverine2710

Tutorial & Guide Writer
wolverine2710
peteuplink said:
As a developer I can't help but worry that Braben and co. have lost sight of the core aspect of Elite and the game is suffering feature creep that was never part of the original design but someone thought it would be "cool" to add them as they would appeal to a larger audience.

This video is a fine analogy of video game development and how feature creep can completely change the face of your game if you don't stick to your core aspects:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXQ2lO3ieBA
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Absolutely beautiful !!!
 

Araviel

Araviel
peteuplink said:
Well, I'm going to play devils advocate here for a moment. I can'r speak for Power Play, but the CQC stuff could have been asked for by Microsoft. Maybe they liked ED but didn't think it was "shooty" enough and so wanted some sort of tacked on MOBA before they'd agree to an Xbox release.
Click to expand...

ooh you seem to be nerd dev like me :D
want to have a geek discussion about this? :)

i got the impression that PP has been on the design table for along time, to me it seems to well thought out and well knitted into the background sim (or how the BGS is supposed to work anyway)
the execution is pretty tacky i agree, but as it seems to fill in so many blanks it seems to me that its something that was almost supposed to be here from the beginning.
perhaps delayed by the community demanded wings expansion.
i posted in another thread about how it all reminds me about the systems in Europa universalis, whit lots of modifers, effects and counter effects,
and while perhaps easy to code, such things require tons of work just to deisgn and test.

what do you think?
 

Salvatory

S
I'd be a billion times happier if things weren't instanced (or a creative way was found to fix the stalling between 'level loading') - Unless we're spoiled with the likes of GTA5 where the play is seamless... and massive...
 
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