Woah Repair Costs Go Up?

What is fair when a full grade "A" Anaconda to intercept unarmed T6 for no cost ?


What is a bad gameplay is allowing players to make choice without consequences.
You want the most costly ship ? Deal with the costs.


I donno why ppl sometimes forget that this is actually a GAME.reality is nice to a certain level, but eventually its supposed to be a A GAME, it shouldnt be as hard as real life.. this isnt what GAMES are about,they are entertainment. i play all games on HARDCORE or HARD or IRON MAN,coz i love a challenge, but doing repetitive grinding fo a whole day to pay for one repair after one fight with one Elite anaconda that pays 10% of your repair cost isnt fun or hardcore..

I raised the same issue in Star Citizen with their black out (G-force) flying.. yes its reality but having a black screen every 5 seconds isnt fun either.. i play games to escape this horrible ass reality and have some fun. dont make me WORK for my fun too.. sigh

again.. this is a GAME .
 
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I see, i guess by your very argument you would be also cool if FD decides next that your Volkswagen (anything that does not support large weaponry) can do sh** against said Abrams (which is heavily fortified) as compensation for said increased repair costs. Cause why should small and medium weaponry do as much as a small dent into our shields or paintjobs, no? Using your very words: "Deal with the fact that small ships with small armaments should in no way be able to even be close to a thread". But i guess then it would be whole different and excuses over excuses why it shouldn't be that way. So you might rethink your statement.
 
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If people buy an expensive ship, expect expensive running costs, and keep plenty of credits aside just in case.

If you have lots of time and go around trading palladium etc by the hundreds of tons hour after hour, the cost of just using a ship matters relatively little. But if you don't, if you have earned it slowly, over time, in small steps, and then, when you finally get the prize of months of effort - you find out that you can't even use the prize because you'd have to keep up the effort that went into just acquiring the thing in the first place. That may be more realistic, but for lots of people it is not fun at all.

And in the end, the higher the average credits/hour a ship eats in fuel, repairs, maintenance etc., the more and more people are entirely excluded from that ship. It should not be necessary at all to min-max your credits/hour rate just to use whatever ship and equipment you have earned yourself. A casual player who has to save up for 2 years until they can afford an Anaconda should totally and viably be able to use the ship, and not find themselves with a useless pile of metal because they must be able to spend a million credits for every hour they fly the ship.

And the fact that bigger ships open up avenues for bigger profits doesn't hold up. Not every profession scales equally. If you are just a pure trader, sure, the bigger your ship, the more tons you can carry, the more money you make. Combat? Exploration? Smuggling? Not so much. And even if they did scale in the same way, that'd still leave us with the problem that you'd be required to follow this one small bit of the profession that is the most profitable of all, just to use your ship.

Upkeep should never be a total drain on your earnings, and the decision to travel around shouldn't revolve around the question "can I afford the fuel, wear&tear?", but "do I want to make a 200Ly journey now to participate the Community Goal". When you come back from a difficult fight, a hard mission - your ship is battered and broken, but in the end you prevailed - it should be a relief, a moment of joy and success when you return to a starport to cash in that mission. Not a moment of horror whether you break even at all.

Apart from the pure "is it fun" aspect, there are also lots of ugly gameplay ramifications from high w&t and hull/module repair cost:
- Long supercruise distances, discouraged. It is already more appealing to fly shorter distances because it takes less time. If it also costs significant chunks of your money, no one will want to deliver a mission to a station 50,000Ls away from the star, when the cost is 3x the payment.
- Fighting on the bare metal, shields down, discouraged. I distinctly remember the time where the mantra was "if you lose your shield, you lost the fight even if you prevailed".
- Silent Running as a combat tactic, discouraged.
- SCBs, and the stacking and spamming thereof, nigh mandatory.
- Long shield recharge times, more than just an big annoyance when fighting with low shields and the risk of damage to your ship is financially devastating.
- Armour upgrades and armour tanking, useless even in PvE. (In PvP they will remain useless no matter what as long as power plant sniping is a thing, or at least automatically easier and quicker than attacking the hull.)
- Any ship that is made to be able to armour tank in exchange for weaker shields, disproportionally disadvantaged. There is a reason why the Dropship is considered almost useless by many, and flown only by few enthusiasts of the ship. But even enthusiasm doesn't pay repairs that exceed mission or bounty payments.
- Experimentation, fun off-the-side activities, novel ship loadouts, discouraged. To pay the bills, you'd need to keep up a certain credits/hour ratio, and anything that falls below that ratio, becomes unviable.
- Interdictions, discouraged. Now we have assassination mission which finally have us seek the target in SC, chase it and interdict it, and the repair/w&t cost incurred become prohibitive again.

And above all else: it should absolutely never cost more to repair your ship (hull+modules just as well as w&t), than self-destructing and claiming insurance. Under no circumstances. Even an A-rated Anaconda worn down to 0% and at 1% health of the hull and every single module, should still be significantly cheaper to repair than to just faceplant into a rock.
 
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The thing pilots of lower tier ships don't seem to understand is that this game does not scale income. Just because I have a bigger ship, doesn't mean my missions or my income from bounties is any higher than what can be made in a Cobra. This game doesn't scale based on the ship the commander is flying. Mission payout is not proportional to ship size, so why should commanders be expected to pay proportional repair costs when making similar income? What can be made in an Anaconda can theoretically be made in a Cobra as well (not including trade which is cargo space dependent - but this is talking combat anyway). Sure pilot skill comes into account in making combat easier, and a larger ship makes killing things more efficient, but based on a gain to loss ratio; income gained from using a Anaconda with proportional repair costs is NO WHERE near maintaining the same income of a proportional cost of a Cobra or similar ship. Therefore to use that Anaconda, I have to play, what? 10X more? And not take ANY damage doing it? How is that fair. I shouldn't have to GRIND this game more to operate an expensive ship. ESPECIALLY having WORKED to afford and outfit that bigger ship in the first place. If our income is not 100x greater than yours, then why should our repair costs be 100x greater than yours? (Diamondback Scout costs 16-45k for FULL repairs whereas an Anaconda costs millions per 5ish percent)
 
well i do feel whit you, especially whit the armor tanking dropship pilots,
but i still don't understand the necessity to fly large ships, and seems that FD might share my opinion and is trying to make you try something new.

on my first save i rushed to the Conda, that was a dreadful grind experience and i also found out that it was not that fun to fly once i got to it,
that is a matter of opinion ofc, some people might love to fly it, but i got it as a combat vessel and found it just horrible in that role, slow and sluggish, and if i ever get a Conda again i will only use it as a armed trader.

on my current save i stuck to the smaller ships, and i don't own anything larger than a Asp, instead i own a ton of them all placed at strategical places all over civilized space.
and what i found out by doing this was that all the feeling of "grind" in the game disappeared, and its great fun to just go all "balls out" whit a eagle knowing that its no big deal if i loose it.

i also got roots in eve-online and used to the practice from there,
in eve you save your large ships for special occasions and don't bring them out whit out reason.
taking a battleship out for combat there whitout escorts is usually considered to be a suicide, and Capitals can't even move out by their own from a system whit out a helping hand.

its ofc not the same here, we don't really got any "special" occasions in Elite, at least not yet.
but maybe FD is planning something for the future.
 
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well i do feel whit you, especially whit the armor tanking dropship pilots,
but i still don't understand the necessity to fly large ships, and seems that FD might share my opinion and is trying to make you try something new.

on my first save i rushed to the Conda, that was a dreadful grind experience and i also found out that it was not that fun to fly once i got to it,
that is a matter of opinion ofc, some people might love to fly it, but i got it as a combat vessel and found it just horrible in that role, slow and sluggish, and if i ever get a Conda again i will only use it as a armed trader.

on my current save i stuck to the smaller ships, and i don't own anything larger than a Asp, instead i own a ton of them all placed at strategical places all over civilized space.
and what i found out by doing this was that all the feeling of "grind" in the game disappeared, and its great fun to just go all "balls out" whit a eagle knowing that its no big deal if i loose it.

i also got roots in eve-online and used to the practice from there,
in eve you save your large ships for special occasions and don't bring them out whit out reason.
taking a battleship out for combat there whitout escorts is usually considered to be a suicide, and Capitals can't even move out by their own from a system whit out a helping hand.

its ofc not the same here, we don't really got any "special" occasions in Elite, at least not yet.
but maybe FD is planning something for the future.


--Yes yes, this is the constant reply everyone gives: "Well then just use a cheaper/smaller ship then if you can't afford the costs." That's not the point. If a person who was able to make the literal millions it takes to buy and then outfit an Anaconda.. Can't afford to.. Use that Anaconda.. then tell me who WILL be able to afford it? No one. That defeats the purpose of having it in the game at all. It literally becomes worthless junk. SURE, as I said, since this game does not scale, YES there are options to make the same profits in a smaller ship as a larger. But once again, that defeats the purpose of the larger. Just because I CAN operate a smaller ship, doesn't mean I should be FORCED to because of repair costs being too much in terms of a cost effective ratio of income to expenses. If that's the case, it is simply impossible for most players who actually have a life to maintain the costs required to fly an Anaconda.

This surpasses the point where this goes from being a game, to being a daily job that you have to literally work at for long hours. That is NOT fun.
 
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well i do feel whit you, especially whit the armor tanking dropship pilots,
but i still don't understand the necessity to fly large ships, and seems that FD might share my opinion and is trying to make you try something new.

on my first save i rushed to the Conda, that was a dreadful grind experience and i also found out that it was not that fun to fly once i got to it,
that is a matter of opinion ofc, some people might love to fly it, but i got it as a combat vessel and found it just horrible in that role, slow and sluggish, and if i ever get a Conda again i will only use it as a armed trader.

on my current save i stuck to the smaller ships, and i don't own anything larger than a Asp, instead i own a ton of them all placed at strategical places all over civilized space.
and what i found out by doing this was that all the feeling of "grind" in the game disappeared, and its great fun to just go all "balls out" whit a eagle knowing that its no big deal if i loose it.

i also got roots in eve-online and used to the practice from there,
in eve you save your large ships for special occasions and don't bring them out whit out reason.
taking a battleship out for combat there whitout escorts is usually considered to be a suicide, and Capitals can't even move out by their own from a system whit out a helping hand.

its ofc not the same here, we don't really got any "special" occasions in Elite, at least not yet.
but maybe FD is planning something for the future.


I agree with you on certain points.. ya the cobra in my opinion is the BEST ship to fly. i used to enter stations doing flips and turns and going inside at 400 speed. but i get wiped out like a fly in combat. i bought a valture and dominated the combat zones in a hail of terror. but in trading it was just awful. i fell in love with my ASP in exploring and i always had a special place in my heart for a hauler. But then i bought a Python and found out i can do all these in one ship. i can trad and fight maybe not explore but still i did the rest in style .. of course your ASP will be great but it wont stand a chance in a military strike zone or a conflict zone. or doing heavy trading. every ship has its "Special event" as u said. and bigger ships r essential for combating elite units and PVP pirates. but i cant pay 1 Mil for repair after killing a 200cr bounty ship. that just doesnt make sense.

I already lost 100 Mil in power play in 2 weeks trying to fix ppl`s mistakes. how much should i grind for to repair my python after lets say 10 elite condas ? 10 Mil ? what about 20 ? or 200 elite condas?

i didnt complain through all the updates .i love PP i love Wings. i love all the fixes but sometimes FD fix things that doesnt need to be fixed.. thats why for the first time i left my python in a station and didnt play for 48 Hours straight since i bought ED 3 months ago. Coz honestly .. its too much, i cant afford to play more then 20 hours a week. and its not enough to grind for PP and for repairs. i need at least 40 - 50 hours minimum ..

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--Yes yes, this is the constant reply everyone gives: "Well then just use a cheaper/smaller ship then if you can't afford the costs." That's not the point. If a person who was able to make the literal millions it takes to buy and then outfit an Anaconda.. Can't afford to.. Use that Anaconda.. then tell me who WILL be able to afford it? No one. That defeats the purpose of having it in the game at all. It literally becomes worthless junk. SURE, as I said, since this game does not scale, YES there are options to make the same profits in a smaller ship as a larger. But once again, that defeats the purpose of the larger. Just because I CAN operate a smaller ship, doesn't mean I should be FORCED to because of repair costs being too much in terms of a cost effective ratio of income to expenses. If that's the case, it is simply impossible for most players who actually have a life to maintain the costs required to fly an Anaconda.

This surpasses the point where this goes from being a game, to being a daily job that you have to literally work at for long hours. That is NOT fun.

Lol we posted at the same time. if i read your post i wouldnt have bothered with mine coz u said exactly what was on my mind. :D
 
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Its a real pain for me because of a bug Its impossible for me to submit to, or avoid interdiction so every time a sidewinder decides to interdict my python it costs a small fortune :(
 
If a person who was able to make the literal millions it takes to buy and then outfit an Anaconda.. Can't afford to.. Use that Anaconda.. then tell me who WILL be able to afford it? No one. That defeats the purpose of having it in the game at all. It literally becomes worthless junk.

yea i agree whit this, large ships needs a purpose. something that would be worth burning some money on, like hmm i dunno,,,, thargoids maybe?

Just because I CAN operate a smaller ship, doesn't mean I should be FORCED to

Eve-online forced me whit a iron fist, i dealt whit it and came out better afterwards.
there is nothing wrong whit games that force you into things, quite often its games that do that makes you into a better gamer.

bigger ships r essential for combating elite units and PVP pirates.


i assure you they are not, im trying to set up a twitch stream atm, if i get it working you can come and watch me beat up elites whit my Vipers and Currier.

i would not take a cobra or Asp against them though, i feel they are to slow and can't dodge.



 
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yea i agree whit this, large ships needs a purpose. something that would be worth burning some money on, like hmm i dunno,,,, thargoids maybe?

There is a fundamental disagreement here between you and some of us who argue against high cost: we believe big ships should not be a way to "burn money" in the first place.

Eve-online forced me whit a iron fist, i dealt whit it and came out better afterwards.
there is nothing wrong whit games that force you into things, quite often its games that do that makes you into a better gamer.

Except this is one of those games where the individual freedom is at the heart of it all.
 
there is nothing wrong whit games that force you into things, quite often its games that do that makes you into a better gamer.



what ever happened to "Blazing your own trail ? i dont think that goes will with "Being forced into things"
 
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we believe big ships should not be a way to "burn money" in the first place.

*scratches head* you got your big ship, what are you planning to spend the rest of your money on?

what ever happened to "Blazing your own trail ? i dont think that goes will with "Being forced into things"

i am assuming you are an adult so you should have some life experience and aware of the turns the path takes through life, still are you able to say that the path that you has gone has not been your own?
 
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*scratches head* you got your big ship, what are you planning to spend the rest of your money on?



i am assuming you are an adult so you should have some life experience and aware of the turns the path takes through life, still are you able to say that the path has not been your own?

We go back again to my previous post.. this isnt real life.. this is a game.. should be entertaining .. i already have my twists and turns on every single corner on daily bases in life... should i work AS hard for my fun as well ?

plus you just said that the game is "Forcing us into things and nothing wrong with that." so how can i say thats still my own path ? if i wanted to be a doctor but i couldnt pay for medical school and ended up being a mechanic i cant say that being a mechanic is MY PATH..can i ?
 
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plus you just said that the game is "Forcing us into things and nothing wrong with that." so how can i say thats still my own path ? if i wanted to be a doctor but i couldnt pay for medical school and ended up being a mechanic i cant say that being a mechanic is MY PATH..can i ?

ben.jpg

.....
 
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I stopped playing ED until they fix this integrity repair cost and flying FDL will have sense.
I am a bit tired to testing it everyday.
 
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*scratches head* you got your big ship, what are you planning to spend the rest of your money on?



i am assuming you are an adult so you should have some life experience and aware of the turns the path takes through life, still are you able to say that the path that you has gone has not been your own?

This is typical of some people on the forum. They defend anything FD do with things like 'then don't use that feature' or 'it's not like this in real life'.

"you should have some life experience and aware of the turns the path takes through life" What has that got to do with a space ship flying computer game? That is just a weird thing to say.

This is a game, a game where all the features, including big ships, should be playable.
 
My Python cost me 76k to repair when it was only at 96%.

Mine cost 1.2 million at 100% with some modules damaged to 90% from heat damage
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My python loses nearly double what I can earn in a combat zone because of repair costs, yes make them high but don't kill off the ship completely from the game
 
I was flying my T7 yesterday and noticed the insane repair bills. I was also getting hull and module damage very easily.

After a little testing I managed to learn how to avoid all the repairs by changing some of my flying habits and got it down to zero repairs on each flight.

It's looks like it's a nerf on combat tbh, since in combat we're unlikely to be able to avoid any damage.

'Forcing us...' yeah Devs do that in games. They want us to avoid combat(prolly pvp) and fly errands for PP merits and fly the smaller, newer ships more, I'm guessing.
 
This is typical of some people on the forum. They defend anything FD do with things like 'then don't use that feature' or 'it's not like this in real life'.

"you should have some life experience and aware of the turns the path takes through life" What has that got to do with a space ship flying computer game? That is just a weird thing to say.

This is a game, a game where all the features, including big ships, should be playable.

You have no idea how many times i had to remind ppl this is a game .. and all i get is " what so you get free money in your real life" ? and im like.. wh.. what does that even mean? lol
so ya basically we should all wear a uniform before play ED now other wise we arent gamers.. i never played a game since 1988 (i was 5 years old on a black and white monitor and a X86 computer) on easy level.. always HARD. but ya i still need to do repetitive grinding to play ED other wise i should not play. sigh

[h=3]TL;DR Stay in your sidewinders peasents!! .. only "Elite(ists)" get to fly the condas![/h]
 
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