Buff Antal's stolen canisters to undermine or prevent expansion

[TheoZ]

Hey commanders,

I tried a bit of undermining Antal's fortification efforts. After 2 hrs of play i managed to get 66 canisters (!!!!!), only to raise the opposition by 3% (!!!)

And it's not only that! You need to have drones, you might need to have cargo hatch breaker, you often interdict type-9's or other big trading transports and you get NOTHING, and you also have all these security forces jumping on the wake and attack you while you try to collect these stupid canisters.



vs hudson and vs other powers that you need to kill stuff, in 2 hrs you could raise the oposition's % by more than 20%.

It's obviously unbalanced and needs to be fixed ASAP.

 

[superflyguy]

Hey commanders,
......

It's obviously unbalanced and needs to be fixed ASAP.

ha. because it's hard/you're not as competent at scooping it must need 'buffing' to your will.

**i'll be at the bar chuckling into my pint

 

[Mikey2305]

or you need to improve your skills

 

[Darth Ender]

Yea, and to undermine Archon, us Utopians have to steal slaves dropped by specific ships. I believe every power has this kind of mechanic rather than just killing npcs for some other powers.

it's designed to be more difficult for whatever reason. Probably since it's pretty trivial currently to kill the power's npcs and they want certain rivalries to be harder to sway than others.

 

[Alexander the Grape]

It's not a problem with Antal, it's a problem with undermining aligned (empire, fed, independent) factions in general. Notice how the Imperial factions apart from Patreus are barely undermined at all?

It's because undermining aligned factions is so useless compared to blasting haulers for 15 merits a pop

 

[TheoZ]

Yea, and to undermine Archon, us Utopians have to steal slaves dropped by specific ships. I believe every power has this kind of mechanic rather than just killing npcs for some other powers.

it's designed to be more difficult for whatever reason. Probably since it's pretty trivial currently to kill the power's npcs and they want certain rivalries to be harder to sway than others.

then both sides need to be fixed!

@superflyguy, Mikey, want me to kick your as**es? Anytime and any place, to see who has better skills :*

 

[Darth Ender]

It's not a problem with Antal, it's a problem with undermining aligned (empire, fed, independent) factions in general. Notice how the Imperial factions apart from Patreus are barely undermined at all?

It's because undermining aligned factions is so useless compared to blasting haulers for 15 merits a pop

Not sure how Antal is aligned with archon then because the same mechanic is used to do so, pick up dropped cargo. I think you're thinking normal logic and not FD logic when looking at why something was done one way for certain powers and another for others.

 

[TheoZ]

It's not a problem with Antal, it's a problem with undermining aligned (empire, fed, independent) factions in general. Notice how the Imperial factions apart from Patreus are barely undermined at all?

It's because undermining aligned factions is so useless compared to blasting haulers for 15 merits a pop

hmm, you have a point here! But Still very unbalanced though! killing npcs take seconds 10-15 secs top, and you get a nice 15 merits reward for it, while at the same time you wouldn't have got a single canister and that would have been for 1 merit.

where is the balance here?

 

[superflyguy]

...@superflyguy, Mikey, want me to kick your as**es? Anytime and any place, to see who has better skills :*

Beautiful, I do love a well thought out witty riposte! So you want a scooping contest, I like it. Will it be with or without drones? Should we both fly Sidewinders, oh oh maybe with blindfolds on.

btw I told you where I was - end of the bar chuckling into my pint

*ducks to avoid incoming Mum joke

 

[TheoZ]

Beautiful, I do love a well thought out witty riposte! So you want a scooping contest, I like it. Will it be with or without drones? Should we both fly Sidewinders, oh oh maybe with blindfolds on.

btw I told you where I was - end of the bar chuckling into my pint

*ducks to avoid incoming Mum joke

man I used drones, when 1/3 times the reform ships don't have any cargo how many canisters will you get? :O

or when the hauler will give you 3 canisters how many will you again get in 2 hrs?
make the calculation and compare it to undermining missions that tell you to kill enemy ships.

and when you do, you will see I am right and that it doesn't have to do with "pilot skills" at all.

nah I meant pvp fight

 

[Cadoc]

This is the single most important fix Powerplay needs. It's not so crucial when it comes to Independent Powers, but Imperial ones are enjoying a huge advantage now, and their space is mostly safe, because it's extremely unappealing for Imperials to undermine other Imperials.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

Guys, stop telling that one needs to improve its skills. Also i do understand that for gameplay, it must be more difficult to undermine the weaker Powers.

I am perfectly fine that, to make things move, only bringing the Utopian dissidents to your controlled system works...though I would like to see the mission description updated since I believe it says to destroy the reform ships and bring the dissidents.
However why not giving more merits to the task?

I too, flew to Patreus/Hudson lair and brought hundreds of merits by killing Haulers, wings of deadly Sidewinders...sometimes not even belonging to Patreus/Hudson! Then to roleplay I went to Antal's control systems with my python and class 5 hatch breaker + collectors...and brought about 50 dissidents after about 2 hours...and got 50 merits only!

The harder a task is, the more merits you should get...but hey, violent piracy (pity we cannot negociate with NPCs!) has never been a profitable activity...

 

[Stodgy]

FD have designed it so there are 3 main power factions. Federation, Empire and the independents. It is difficult to undermine or oppose another power within your faction by design. This is I think to encourage each power to form an alliance with the other powers in their faction and concentrate on attacking other factions.

You can either work with the system and undermine Fed/Empire powers or have it work against you by attacking your 'allies'.

Not sure where the Alliance fits in with this. I think they may be aligned with the Feds making it 3/4/3 powers per faction but correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Cadoc]

I'm not sure how much sense that makes, Stodgy. First, it gives a massive advantage to Imperials. Second, it goes against the storyline that FD has been pushing for months, of Imperial Powers struggling to position themselves for the throne.

 

[Straylight0]

Makes us Aisling folk feel bad as well, when we have to blow up ships carrying marked slaves when we should be rescuing at least some of them.

The Imperial advantage isn't what it is cracked up to be, either. We can't make any meaningful obstacle for Arissa dominating the universe and taking the throne, and I would love to be undermining that slaver Torval

 

[Stodgy]

I'm not sure how much sense that makes, Stodgy. First, it gives a massive advantage to Imperials. Second, it goes against the storyline that FD has been pushing for months, of Imperial Powers struggling to position themselves for the throne.

Any yet every Imperial has been saying they are doing it for the Empire and have never openly encouraged their supports to attack another Imperial power. It may lead to civil war and then FD may then change the rules but that is not the case now.

 

[jou84]

Yeh, they need to change this and force all Antal supporters to fly unshielded sidewinders. Seriously we can't give them a hope.

Good enough for you OP?

 

[Cadoc]

Any yet every Imperial has been saying they are doing it for the Empire and have never openly encouraged their supports to attack another Imperial power. It may lead to civil war and then FD may then change the rules but that is not the case now.

Still, I think that was the intent, FD just messed up the mechanics. That's the only logical explanation for the Empire getting 4 Powers.

Makes us Aisling folk feel bad as well, when we have to blow up ships carrying marked slaves when we should be rescuing at least some of them.

The Imperial advantage isn't what it is cracked up to be, either. We can't make any meaningful obstacle for Arissa dominating the universe and taking the throne, and I would love to be undermining that slaver Torval

A lot of people have decided to just treat Powerplay as an Empire vs Federation war mechanic which it's completely unsuited for, and which makes no sense in the lore. In that sense the advantage is still significant... though it's nice to see some Imperials still care about what's fun and what makes sense in RP, rather than "winning" against the Feds.

 

[Perseus]

I feel that undermining another allied power needs some work. I think that every canister spilled into space, whatever it's carrying, should have undermining value for the aggressor. After all, that cargo is not going to be utilised by the transporting faction. It needn't be a point either, it could be a fraction (1/4 or 1/2). Retrieving and delivering the canisters could have more value for the aggressor. I feel it would make the labour and risk of 'friendly' undermining more worthwhile and plausible as a mechanic.
I'm with Patreus and I'm fully supportive of my fellow Imperials in any situation save factional loyalty, as I'm sure they are too. Still, it would be good if we could backstab each other a little deeper than currently.