Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].

[Agony_Aunt]

Groups? Or are you guys not ready to poke a stick that particular hornets nest just yet?

Shsshhh! You're not allowed to mention groups, otherwise its causes half the arguments for splitting to fall apart.

And yeah, if there was a split, i'd go into the Group mode and be free to continue like before, and as has been said, the biggest group is likely to be an Open clone, minus all the open only proponents who will all be sat in Lave or somewhere shooting at each other and complaining about a lack of traders or explorers to kill

Would be a shame though, i've recently changed to playing mainly in Open. Some good guys there... and of course a few numpties. Had a guy in an Imp Courier the other day blow me up in a sidewinder without even so much as a by your leave! So i interdicted him back and asked to talk, and he blew me up again! The cheek of some people.

 

[TheSpaceTexan]

Completely independent witness(es).

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=158612

Interesting. I knew this was kinda the case, but I wasn't aware as to how frequent it is in Open compared to Solo. Huh. Gonna look into that.

I was hoping for him to record the AIs being silly and dying to the station, but this'll definitely suffice.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

It is indeed easy to play alone if you desire to in Open mode, which is why there is no need for Solo mode at all. It just doesn't make sense to have in such a vast game universe.

So you agree there is no extra risk, if you don't want there to be. Nice. That was easier than I thought

Thing is, people like to visit the popular areas without having to PvP. They have just as much right to be there and visit Lave for instance, there is plenty of need for solo.

 

[Roybe]

Interesting. I knew this was kinda the case, but I wasn't aware as to how frequent it is in Open compared to Solo. Huh. Gonna look into that.

I was hoping for him to record the AIs being silly and dying to the station, but this'll definitely suffice.

If it was frequent in solo there would be complaints of NPC griefing.

 

[Mouse]

Exactly - if logging out of the game when a ship is in danger was not allowed, there would not be a 15 second delay timer included, by design, in the game for just such a departure.

As to NPCs not continuing the chase - I have had a couple of particularly enthusiastic serial interdicting NPCs that also follow if I chose to drop out of SC of my own volition - so enthusiastic in fact that they followed me to the station and met their end there by being rash enough to fire at me in the no-fire-zone....

One of my few Elite Anaconda kills was that.. popped in behind me at the station and almost had me.. I just made it into the station with 3% hull left... repair, come back out, and he's tangling with Security. Got out side the no-fire zone and helped finish him off, even then I was below 25% hull when he finally popped.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

You know what would be a spiffing idea?

If before buying the game, you were directed to this page: http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wiki/Elite:_Dangerous_FAQ

But modified somehow, so there were checkboxes under each cateogry, where you had to acknowledge that you had read and understood what was written there. Possibly with a question that locks progress.

It would stop all the Open vs Solo discussion, people asking questions about how this game compares to SC or EvE, and lots of other questions about what plans for the game exist etc.

(Of course, i'm joking... slightly... too many people wouldn't buy the game if reading something was required. So many people don't even read the manual!).

 

[TheSpaceTexan]

If it was frequent in solo there would be complaints of NPC griefing.

I hope that's the case. that'll breathe life into Solo player immersion when it comes to Power Play at least.

 

[relayer]

i never accused anyone of cheating. i stated the current game mechanic of solo is like cheating in that it is unfair to the other play style, the pvp'er.

1. So you did or you did not call "cheating," which by the way is not keeping in forum rules. Please think of another way to express this.

2. "the other play style, the pvp'er" - actually, the other play style is solo or group. "The pvper" is a choice you make, with penalties. "the pvp'er" uses open for their gaming, but open is a lot more than pvp... or should be. That is why many choose not to play in open. The reasons are reiterated throughout this thread.

 

[Spook]

One of my few Elite Anaconda kills was that.. popped in behind me at the station and almost had me.. I just made it into the station with 3% hull left... repair, come back out, and he's tangling with Security. Got out side the no-fire zone and helped finish him off, even then I was below 25% hull when he finally popped.

Time for a new tack.

"Come join us in open - it's safer."

 

[CMDR Holycow]

Exactly - if logging out of the game when a ship is in danger was not allowed, there would not be a 15 second delay timer included, by design, in the game for just such a departure.

This is a load of poo-poo, and you know it. Cmon, 15 seconds? With zero indicators to any 3rd party that the tiny 15 second timer has started? Have you ever tried playing as a pirate before? Here are a couple examples.

COUNTLESS times, I have interdicted a trader to pirate. Here is how the encounters go

1) I pull him into open space
2) I demand he cut his engines and sit for a cargo scan, or risk dying! (buhahaha!)
3) I approach and close gap the ship
4) The ship pulls throttle to zero and sits there
5) I activate my ridiculously long cargo scan
6) I look over at my left panel to see what they are hauling (slaves! WOOT!)
7) I start typing "please drop X tones of sl...."
8) poof. Interdicted player is gone
9) Trader logs right back in solo mode, and continues trading risk free

So what happened here? Something really small happend JUST after #3 that the pirate didn't see, and wasn't made privy to. The interdicted player hits his ESC key, and chooses log off. Knowing damn well it takes at least 15 seconds to do the remaining number of steps. Did he pull his plug? alt-f4 his process? nope.. he used the built-in game mechanic where his ship is "vulnerable" for 15 seconds. Is there any actual risk? no.. none.

Even if a crazy murderer was doing the interdiction and was going to fire on you right away, if you did your graceful logout the moment after you FA-off + Boost away after an interdiction... I don't think any ship is going to get shot down inside the remaining seconds after the interdicter corrects his ship spin, orients towards the target, and starts to attack.

Now, how is this REALLY different from a trader that drops into his home system's star to finish a trade route... spots a pirate or killer in SC... instantly logs out, logs right back into solo, and finishes his route there, risk free? I don't see any difference.

 

[SteveLaw]

If it was frequent in solo there would be complaints of NPC griefing.

NPCs don't grief they have no motivation to upset players.

 

[relayer]

Because there are only a few arguments that can be used against Solo or mode switching

How dare you make such a potent and cogent argument in this thread? For shame!

[and that goes for you too, Steve!]

 

[Faded Glory]

This is a load of poo-poo, and you know it. Cmon, 15 seconds? With zero indicators to any 3rd party that the tiny 15 second timer has started? Have you ever tried playing as a pirate before? Here are a couple examples.

COUNTLESS times, I have interdicted a trader to pirate. Here is how the encounters go

1) I pull him into open space
2) I demand he cut his engines and sit for a cargo scan, or risk dying! (buhahaha!)
3) I approach and close gap the ship
3) The ship pulls throttle to zero and sits there
4) I activate my ridiculously long cargo scan
5) I look over at my right panel to see what they are hauling (slaves! WOOT!)
6) I start typing "please drop X tones of sl...."
7) poof. Interdicted player is gone
8) Trader logs right back in solo mode, and continues trading risk free

So what happened here? Something really small happend JUST after #3 that the pirate didn't see, and wasn't made privy to. The interdicted player hits his ESC key, and chooses log off. Knowing damn well it takes at least 15 seconds to do the remaining number of steps. Did he pull his plug? alt-f4 his process? nope.. he used the built-in game mechanic where his ship is "vulnerable" for 15 seconds. Is there any actual risk? no.. none.

Even if a crazy murderer was doing the interdiction and was going to fire on you right away, if you did your graceful logout the moment after you FA-off + Boost away after an interdiction... I don't think any ship is going to get shot down inside the remaining seconds after the interdicter corrects his ship spin, orients towards the target, and starts to attack.

Now, how is this REALLY different from a trader that drops into his home system's star to finish a trade route... spots a pirate or killer in SC... instantly logs out, logs right back into solo, and finishes his route there, risk free? I don't see any difference.

Well, the examples you give seem to indicate that players in Open aren't necessarily there for the risk, and will log out (legitimately) when faced with it. Why they play in Open at all I cannot say, you should ask them, but it really does undermine your assumption that they would all choose to play in Open permanently if they were forced to make a one time choice.

 

[SteveLaw]

I hope that's the case. that'll breathe life into Solo player immersion when it comes to Power Play at least.

It would certainly be helpful if the "I only ever play Open" players actually played some Solo before commenting on what it is and isn't.

- - - Updated - - -

9) Trader logs right back in solo mode, and continues trading risk free

How do you know they logged into Solo? What if they went to bed? Or just went back into Open and then jumped to a different system. Went for something to eat, watch the telly, nipped to the loo...

I'm not suggesting combat logging is okay but I don't understand why you connect it instantly to Solo.

 

[Roybe]

Well, the examples you give seem to indicate that players in Open aren't necessarily there for the risk, and will log out (legitimately) when faced with it. Why they play in Open at all I cannot say, you should ask them, but it really does undermine your assumption that they would all choose to play in Open permanently if they were forced to make a one time choice.

Well even if they did choose to remain in Private...at least it didn't waste a players time with a cheap mechanic that feels 'cheaty'.

 

[TheSpaceTexan]

It would certainly be helpful if the "I only ever play Open" players actually played some Solo before commenting on what it is and isn't.

How do you know they logged into Solo? What if they went to bed? Or just went back into Open and then jumped to a different system. Went for something to eat, watch the telly, nipped to the loo...

If you mean players like Holycow, yes I agree. If you mean me, I love all three modes and where in the hell are these frequent interdictions occurring? No lie, I'm a tad bit jealous.

 

[Seonid]

8) poof. Interdicted player is gone
9) Trader logs right back in solo mode, and continues trading risk free

Or they just High Wake out since you can't mass lock that and it's likely that a trading ship can out jump a geared combat ship, since they know the exact maximum jump range of whatever you are flying, it's not hard to pick a destination. Using a wake scanner won't help as you may need two jumps to get there. Even if you can match the jump, they simply Low Wake after that jump, and High Wake again back to where they were going or somewhere else. You are not able to track them, same end result. Due to match-making criteria, maybe you see them again in SC, maybe not...

 

[SteveLaw]

Well even if they did choose to remain in Private...at least it didn't waste a players time with a cheap mechanic that feels 'cheaty'.

Like four combat ships attacking one unarmed trader?

 

[CMDR Holycow]

Well, the examples you give seem to indicate that players in Open aren't necessarily there for the risk, and will log out (legitimately) when faced with it. Why they play in Open at all I cannot say, you should ask them, but it really does undermine your assumption that they would all choose to play in Open permanently if they were forced to make a one time choice.

Because I think if they WERE faced with that ultimatum, they would ultimately admit that the benefits of open outweigh the occasional hassle of being pirated, or shot down by a crazy murderer. It would force traders (and other players) to be more careful about where and when they enter certain systems... it would force them to learn new methods to ditching players who want to cause them harm... and it might force traders to ditch their class 6 or 7 cargo rack for a proper shield generator, so they could better escape interdictions. It would make trading more exciting (and more survivable), it would cut into trader's profits, slowing down the ship progression and bringing trading profits closer to the profits of other professions.

It's a win win.

 

[SteveLaw]

If you mean players like Holycow, yes I agree. If you mean me, I love all three modes and where in the hell are these frequent interdictions occurring? No lie, I'm a tad bit jealous.

Just those in general who profess to only ever play Open but then claim to know everything about Solo. Have you tried pledging to a Power and flying in enemy controlled systems?