[PvP]FA/Off Viper v Two Vultures

I and I Redeye · Jun 5, 2015

Archvillain said:
Every time I think that I'm on the cusp of Elite getting boring, I come across something that makes me want to dive into a completely different aspect of it. Nice!

Sidewinder in an asteroid field with FA-Off... added to list!

Go for it, it's beautiful to just glide around and weave thru asteroids. Practice docking at outposts first. I watched about 10 mins of an intruction video, I'm lazy sometimes, and just practiced with trial and error.

I and I Redeye · Jun 5, 2015

Jesse30 said:
Hey I like to kick it with Viper too from time to time and use FAOFF 90%. Last night I decided to take a FDL, I couldn't crack his shields but I feel really confident that I could take on Vulture pilots now. Please let me know if want another annoying Viper pilot fighting along your side. I'm on that Japan time zone, but I could still try.

I really starting to get the hang of FDL now. They are very dangerous and one mistake and it can be all over for the viper. I must have fought about 5 FDL now and only one has beaten me, iirc.
I'm even getting close to stripping shields on pythons' now, even some who have had one bank of SCB.

Yeah, if I'm online same time you are and can get to me, then sure, pop along. I don't have a mic atm but it should be good fun.

IGN:The Abhorred Dread

Phaaded · Jun 5, 2015

Unfortunately, there is nothing to be gained from PvP... especially since 90% of the time you can't kill someone who doesn't want to be killed.

And if you do, you can't get anything out of their wreck....

Good times.

Jesse30 · Jun 5, 2015

Phaaded said:
Unfortunately, there is nothing to be gained from PvP... especially since 90% of the time you can't kill someone who doesn't want to be killed.

And if you do, you can't get anything out of their wreck....

Good times.

We only do it for the rush man. If you want to make CR of course there is no benefits.

Jesse30 · Jun 20, 2015

Mercury Shift said:
It hadn't been ages for me exactly, but I rebought a Viper last night and spec'd it out for racing. I am still missing a 1C fuel tank, and the -2T that will save me in mass, but I did get her up to 352 normal top speed with a boost of 440. I did an 80km run in toward a station in 3M 12s.

So Pendra, if you read this, I am ready to race.

Do you mind sharing your loadout to boost to 440?

Kyokushin · Jun 20, 2015

I and I Redeye said:
Hey Viper fans,

I got to beat up some smug vultures for ya

[video]https://youtu.be/708hFVmz7jo[/url]

[video]https://youtu.be/nEMjCifA7P8[/url]

1st video:
These 2 vultures keep trying to kill me, later that evening they manage to but this is what happens when they come one by one.
Lucky I was full on ammo.

2nd video:
This guy lays down a rp challenge and I except. Thank you for the fight commander.

Enjoy.

Good work mate!

Psycho Romeo · Jun 20, 2015

...Stupid vultures for not bringing fixed weapons to PvP. Stupid vultures for not bringing more chaff. Stupid viper for not bringing fixed weapons to PvP. Stupd viper for not bringing more chaff. Otherwise, great flying.

My biggest issue with FA off is that I can't stay in the blue zone very well. Any maneuverability I gain from having FA off is then made ineffective by not being able to turn well.

Jesse30 · Jun 20, 2015

Psycho Romeo said:
...Stupid vultures for not bringing fixed weapons to PvP. Stupid vultures for not bringing more chaff. Stupid viper for not bringing fixed weapons to PvP. Stupd viper for not bringing more chaff. Otherwise, great flying.

My biggest issue with FA off is that I can't stay in the blue zone very well. Any maneuverability I gain from having FA off is then made ineffective by not being able to turn well.

It seems like you are controlling your speed very well. May I suggest to get some practice inside the Coriolis to help you control your speed

Psycho Romeo · Jun 20, 2015

Jesse30 said:
It seems like you are controlling your speed very well. May I suggest to get some practice inside the Coriolis to help you control your speed

I think you confused me for the OP?

I and I Redeye · Jun 20, 2015

Kyokushin said:
Good work mate!

Cheers

Jesse30 · Jun 20, 2015

I and I Redeye said:
Cheers

Bro are you currently playing? We need to have a showdown.

I and I Redeye · Jun 20, 2015

Psycho Romeo said:
...Stupid vultures for not bringing fixed weapons to PvP. Stupid vultures for not bringing more chaff. Stupid viper for not bringing fixed weapons to PvP. Stupd viper for not bringing more chaff. Otherwise, great flying.

My biggest issue with FA off is that I can't stay in the blue zone very well. Any maneuverability I gain from having FA off is then made ineffective by not being able to turn well.

I struggle with that too. I've tried but I end up a sitting duck trying to adjust it so I kinda ignore it for now. It will come with practice.

I and I Redeye · Jun 20, 2015

Jesse30 said:
Bro are you currently playing? We need to have a showdown.

I can log in shortly, say about 10 mins.

I'm in Lembava still.

Fireclown · Jun 20, 2015

Nice vids, enjoyed watching.
+1

Krieger · Jun 20, 2015

I and I Redeye said:
Hey Viper fans,

I got to beat up some smug vultures for ya

[video]https://youtu.be/708hFVmz7jo[/url]

[video]https://youtu.be/nEMjCifA7P8[/url]

1st video:
These 2 vultures keep trying to kill me, later that evening they manage to but this is what happens when they come one by one.
Lucky I was full on ammo.

2nd video:
This guy lays down a rp challenge and I except. Thank you for the fight commander.

Enjoy.

Nice tactical flying indeed. By flying backwards most of the time you rob your opponents from most of their speed advantage and they have great difficulty overtaking you (only succeeding for mere seconds as the video shows). As a result they are destined to trail behind you (in front from your POV) presenting themselves as fat targets.
.
I have no idea how to counter the flying backwards tactic. I don't do much PvP but I did meet this tactic a few times. I had to disengage after a few minutes because defeat was imminent (flying both Viper and Vulture btw). All I could think of is to start flying backwards myself and then wait and see if the other then disengages or not. Any ideas?

Psycho Romeo · Jun 20, 2015

Krieger said:
I have no idea how to counter the flying backwards tactic. I don't do much PvP but I did meet this tactic a few times. I had to disengage after a few minutes because defeat was imminent (flying both Viper and Vulture btw). All I could think of is to start flying backwards myself and then wait and see if the other then disengages or not. Any ideas?

When a viper flies backwards, that viper gives up the only advantage it had over the vulture: its speed.

Had those vultures matched the viper's pip allocation (4 SYS), they would have lasted much longer. Vultures attract a lot of idiots, so they run around with 4 WEP a lot. But in a square battle of attrition (which is what flying backwards creates), those vultures should have absolutely won.

To put it in perspective, a single large gimballed pulse laser does as much damage as all four of the viper's multi-cannons.

Krieger · Jun 20, 2015

Psycho Romeo said:
When a viper flies backwards, that viper gives up the only advantage it had over the vulture: its speed.

Had those vultures matched the viper's pip allocation (4 SYS), they would have lasted much longer. Vultures attract a lot of idiots, so they run around with 4 WEP a lot. But in a square battle of attrition (which is what flying backwards creates), those vultures should have absolutely won.

To put it in perspective, a single large gimballed pulse laser does as much damage as all four of the viper's multi-cannons.

I think the Viper exploited its speed advantage by flying backwards. By doing that it limited the (relative) space to manoeuvre for its opponents. Due to the Viper's speed going backwards the Vultures are confined to a cone-shaped area trailing the Viper. This tactical setup is more or less the opposite of a dogfight between aircraft where the optimal position for the attacking aircraft is in a cone-shaped area behind the defending aircraft.
.
We can't see the Vultures' pips allocation in the video so we're speculating.

Vezdekot · Jun 20, 2015

Krieger said:
Nice tactical flying indeed. By flying backwards most of the time you rob your opponents from most of their speed advantage and they have great difficulty overtaking you (only succeeding for mere seconds as the video shows). As a result they are destined to trail behind you (in front from your POV) presenting themselves as fat targets.
.
I have no idea how to counter the flying backwards tactic. I don't do much PvP but I did meet this tactic a few times. I had to disengage after a few minutes because defeat was imminent (flying both Viper and Vulture btw). All I could think of is to start flying backwards myself and then wait and see if the other then disengages or not. Any ideas?

its main elite tactic for pvp. First you need to fill your ship with SCB at max, then you take gimbaled weapon. ( yeah i know there is some pro that use fixed.. chaff omg. But when you deselect your target you have fixed. so no point in elite for fixed dmg is almost same) and learn how to use boost, and do FA off 180 degree turn. That's it. Great pvp,great tactical choices. If you want a real tactical,skill based PvP dogfight try "War Thunder" or "IL-2 BoS" games. "Elite" is arcade game. Learn one tactic,and some simple rules. thats it.

I and I Redeye · Jun 20, 2015

Strictly speaking I'm not reverse flying like the other pilots do. I am straffing altho not very well cos at the time of the vids I didn't quite know how to adjust vector.
Those that have big ships and experienced do this alot and it requires another tactic to overcome when in a weaker ship. Something I am getting alot better at.
Reverse flying is the 2nd hardest tactic to overcome, imo. There are other tactics that are much harder to overcome but I won't share ofc.

Very few pilots do it.

What I was doing was holding my position, straffing and pitching/rolling using thrusters to control my position to keep sights on target. A bit like a tennis player that controls the center of the court but with the flair of FA/Off.

I will agree somewhat with Vezdekot, sometimes its like old fashioned duels, walk 10 paces, turn and shoot. 1st one to shoot wins. Rinse/repeat.

Krieger · Jun 20, 2015

Vezdekot said:
its main elite tactic for pvp. First you need to fill your ship with SCB at max, then you take gimbaled weapon. ( yeah i know there is some pro that use fixed.. chaff omg. But when you deselect your target you have fixed. so no point in elite for fixed dmg is almost same) and learn how to use boost, and do FA off 180 degree turn. That's it. Great pvp,great tactical choices. If you want a real tactical,skill based PvP dogfight try "War Thunder" or "IL-2 BoS" games. "Elite" is arcade game. Learn one tactic,and some simple rules. thats it.

Yes, I agree. But in defence of Elite it must be said that it is quite difficult to get true dogfights in space because the absence of Earth's gravity renders 80% of basic fighter manoeuvres useless. Frontier tried to compensate by making turn rate dependent on speed (blue zone = corner speed), but there is no equivalent of stall speed in Elite and that opens the door to the extremely defensive flying-backwards tactic (basically flying like a tail gunner). In Elite 1v1 there is no real counter to it I think (other than having more shield cells). Flying in a wing and doing an offensive split is a possibility.