Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].

[Spook]

I can't actually answer this, because combo modes actually make it impossible (that's kind of the point) If i listed anything i'd merely get swamped by the hundreds of solo'ers shouting "you can't do that" I mean I already posted once and mentioned blockades and got 5 posts instantly telling me I couldn't do it

As one of the people who apparently wasted his time trying to help you understand how how the game works on a technical level - and why what you desired was impossible. The above post is pretty immature to be honest.

Welcome to ignore - it's a type of "grouping" - for the forums.

 

[SteveLaw]

It's not clear what exactly that means yet though. The example the SC guy uses seems to suggest that players will be present at all times, maybe just not flagged for PvP.

That's how Solo works. We all share the same universe but if I have the Solo option set you won't see me and I won't see you. I added a bit more to my post above. SC has a PvP slider which will match you according you to your preferences, Player or NPC opponents. And also private vs. public servers. So not really the PvP Utopian dream after all.

 

[Derath]

As one of the people who apparently wasted his time trying to help you understand how how the game works on a technical level - and why what you desired was impossible. The above post is pretty immature to be honest.

Welcome to ignore

No it isn't, you assumed I didn't understand the game at a technical level, it was a bad one, other than that there was nothing to learn there.

You think code couldn't make a half decent blockade of a CG if they wanted to? I think they could, so no it wasn't immature, or wrong (thanks for proof)

 

[Jockey79]

Any idea as to the size of their instancing? Also, are they using p2p or server side hosting? I've not really followed SC much so no idea about these specifics. If their instances are lets say 50+ people and it's all hosted server side it's multiplayer experience will be leaps and bounds above elite.

I'm looking now, but last I heard it was at 64 players and they are aiming higher.
However, they are using the same "island instancing" that ED uses, so depending on the connection between yourself and those "near by" the server will decided who you can see or not see.

Plus with the PvP <> PvE slider in game, if someone has their slider set to PvE (while not 100%), the server has a higher chance to keep you both apart, even if you have yours set to PvP (again, not 100%).

So mix a poor connection with maximum PvE slider - chances are, they will slip right by without you even knowing they are there (almost like our Solo mode).

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Solo is so tacked on, this game was built multiplayer, both groups and solo are filtering - the fact they always intended them doesn't mean they aren't tacked on, however I didn't realise they did genuinely set out to land themselves in their current situation.

Post 3 in this thread has all the information. Solo, Group and Open were all part of the original design.

 

[gMcizzLe]

Any idea as to the size of their instancing? Also, are they using p2p or server side hosting? I've not really followed SC much so no idea about these specifics. If their instances are lets say 50+ people and it's all hosted server side it's multiplayer experience will be leaps and bounds above elite.

No idea, I literally just joined this genre of game weeks ago lol. I've been an FPS arena type gamer in the past, with a splash of WoW.

Seems like it's all server-side based on this:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/...s-On-Multiplayer-Single-Player-And-Instancing

 

[Robert Maynard]

Solo is so tacked on, this game was built multiplayer, both groups and solo are filtering - the fact they always intended them doesn't mean they aren't tacked on, however I didn't realise they did genuinely set out to land themselves in their current situation.

You are entitled to your opinion, of course, we will need to agree to differ on that one.

From the Kickstrter pitch:

Fight, trade, hunt your way across a giant galaxy of billions of star systems, starting with a basic starship and a few credits. You can make money from trading goods between the many star systems, by destroying pirate ships (and collecting bounty), or even by attacking traders and collecting their cargo (which in turn will get a bounty on your head!). There will be missions too, and exploration. Most people will do some combination of these things. Upgrade your ship and specialise in one activity - have a trader with a huge cargo bay, or use the space for weapons and maneuverability.

Real Freedom - Go where you like, be what you like - pirate, bounty hunter, trader, assassin, or some mix of all of these.

Trade - Buy low, cross dangerous space lanes, evade or destroy pirates en route, then sell high, if you make the journey!

Fight - Take on the pirates or be one yourself

Progress - Get your pilot rating all the way from "Harmless" to "Elite"

Explore - Head out to the far reaches of space and discover amazing sights

And the best part - you can do all this online with your friends, or other "Elite" pilots like yourself, or even alone. The choice is yours...

All three of the game modes are governed by a single matchmaking system. All three of the game modes share the same galaxy state. This has not changed from the outset.

 

[jonny taco]

I thought that SC will allow private servers to be created - this rather undermines the "everyone in the same universe" statement.

Are they going to allow people to move from a private server to the persistent world whenever they want?

 

[gMcizzLe]

That's how Solo works. We all share the same universe but if I have the Solo option set you won't see me and I won't see you. I added a bit more to my post above. SC has a PvP slider which will match you according you to your preferences, Player or NPC opponents. And also private vs. public servers. So not really the PvP Utopian dream after all.

And why shouldn't it be that I can see you, but can't engage you in combat? That makes the game more alive when you can see other players, even if you can't fight them. Hopefully SC doesn't make this mistake...

 

[SteveLaw]

No it isn't, you assumed I didn't understand the game at a technical level, it was a bad one, other than that there was nothing to learn there.

You think code couldn't make a half decent blockade of a CG if they wanted to? I think they could, so no it wasn't immature, or wrong (thanks for proof)

Absolutely they could. FD could make a better blockade with NPCs than with players because NPCs are in all instances. They don't do that though because Community Goals aren't about blockades. They are about Community Goals - working together, as a community, towards a goal. If you all do well, you all benefit. If you detach Solo from Open for CGs, all players will probably earn less because you will only make half as much progress and therefore will not be as likely to reach the higher tiers. So you may well get in the top 5% without Solo but that 5% will be worth less. By everyone working together, everyone gets a higher reward.

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And why shouldn't it be that I can see you, but can't engage you in combat? That makes the game more alive when you can see other players, even if you can't fight them. Hopefully SC doesn't make this mistake...

Because it would break immersion for a lot of people. How would the game prevent you from engaging me? It would be gamey and out of context. I wouldn't respond to your chat either. And we'd all get more lag. What's the advantage here exactly?

 

[Jockey79]

Are they going to allow people to move from a private server to the persistent world whenever they want?

That I do not know.
But using a matchmaking server like we have here, mixed with the PvE slider and me watching Netflix while playing - they might as well have Solo mode on the public server

 

[gMcizzLe]

Absolutely they could. FD could make a better blockade with NPCs than with players because NPCs are in all instances. They don't do that though because Community Goals aren't about blockades. They are about Community Goals - working together, as a community, towards a goal. If you all do well, you all benefit. If you detach Solo from Open for CGs, all players will probably earn less because you will only make half as much progress and therefore will not be as likely to reach the higher tiers. So you may well get in the top 5% without Solo but that 5% will be worth less. By everyone working together, everyone gets a higher reward.

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Because it would break immersion for a lot of people. How would the game prevent you from engaging me? It would be gamey and out of context. I wouldn't respond to your chat either. And we'd all get more lag. What's the advantage here exactly?

Oh, I don't know, maybe something interesting once in a while to break the cycle of predictable and lackluster AI?

 

[SteveLaw]

Oh, I don't know, maybe something interesting once in a while to break the cycle of predictable and lackluster AI?

So you just want to look at me? I'm blushing. I'll send you a photo of my ship.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Oh, I don't know, maybe something interesting once in a while to break the cycle of predictable and lackluster AI?

It depends very much on the definition of "interesting", doesn't it? Not everyone is interested in PvP, after all.

 

[gMcizzLe]

So you just want to look at me? I'm blushing. I'll send you a photo of my ship.

Yes, please do. How big?

 

[SteveLaw]

Yes, please do. How big?

The ship or the photo? I have a Sidey, a Cobey, an Asp or a Vulture. I'm in the Asp on my save, so the others would take a little time. I have a choice of skins. The photo? Seeing as how I play Solo I can send you a hi-res image.

Edit: I'll tell you what, here's one taken on my birthday. Can you see me?

Spoiler

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

Solo is so tacked on, this game was built multiplayer, …

To me PvP feels tacked on. The ships nicely balanced for PvE, badly balanced for PvP. PvP is heavy gear dependent and things like gimbaled, turreted and seeker weapons are more PvE oriented than skill based PvP (not saying that PvP in Elite doesn't requires skill, it does). All missions, CGs and PP (from what I've read) are designed around PvE.

To me it feels like FD simply decided to make a PvE (solo game) and allow other players to play the same game and on top of that allow players to shoot each other. I get the impression that FD is surprised that the players don't cooperate in Open Mode, but instead quite a lot of players do everything to compete with others. Otherwise some of the more obvious "exploits" or creative uses of game mechanics would have been prevented in the design phase of the game.

And do you remember the complete fail at competitive CG at Lugh? FD doesn't understand PvP. My opinion and no offense to FD - they made a really cool game with Elite Dangerous.

 

[SteveLaw]

To me PvP feels tacked on. The ships nicely balanced for PvE, badly balanced for PvP. PvP is heavy gear dependent and things like gimbaled, turreted and seeker weapons are more PvE oriented than skill based PvP (not saying that PvP in Elite doesn't requires skill, it does). All missions, CGs and PP (from what I've read) are designed around PvE.

Pretty much. David's vision was that PvP would be "rare and meaningful". Mind you, they've added a PvP arena since then so pfft.

 

[Jockey79]

To me PvP feels tacked on. The ships nicely balanced for PvE, badly balanced for PvP. PvP is heavy gear dependent and things like gimbaled, turreted and seeker weapons are more PvE oriented than skill based PvP (not saying that PvP in Elite doesn't requires skill, it does). All missions, CGs and PP (from what I've read) are designed around PvE.

To me it feels like FD simply decided to make a PvE (solo game) and allow other players to play the same game and on top of that allow players to shoot each other. I get the impression that FD is surprised that the players don't cooperate in Open Mode, but instead quite a lot of players do everything to compete with others. Otherwise some of the more obvious "exploits" or creative uses of game mechanics would have been prevented in the design phase of the game.

And do you remember the complete fail at competitive CG at Lugh? FD doesn't understand PvP. My opinion and no offense to FD - they made a really cool game with Elite Dangerous.

+1

FD have made "a game" that has multiplayer (not *is* multiplayer)
FD have made "a game" that allows PvP (not *is* a PvP game)

All they have done, is take their single player game and open up new ways of playing it, while keeping the old ways of playing it as well.
Other games have decided they also like the way this is done and are doing the same ( Shroud of the Avatar for example ).

Also, CQC will be more for the PvP crowd or players who want to try PvP away from the main universe.

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Pretty much. David's vision was that PvP would be "rare and meaningful". Mind you, they've added a PvP arena since then so pfft.

Not part of the main game though, and not with our own ships or gear.
So the main game, it remains the same vision of "rare and meaningful".

 

[SteveLaw]

Not part of the main game though, and not with our own ships or gear.
So the main game, it remains the same vision of "rare and meaningful".

Yeah I know but I'm sulking.

 

[Robert Maynard]

All they have done, is take their single player game and open up new ways of playing it, while keeping the old ways of playing it as well.
Other games have decided they also like the way this is done and are doing the same ( Shroud of the Avatar for example ).

Also, CQC will be more for the PvP crowd or players who want to try PvP away from the main universe.

It rather seems that this is what they have done. They have provided a flexi-player game where all players can choose the level of interaction with others from none, chosen player to random players.

I'm quite looking forward to CQC - it will guarantee availability of no-consequence PvP without affecting the main game.