In-lore reason for shapes of many ships in Elite

[Karakhian]

I know that the reason many of the ships look like they do is because of the wireframe models from the original Elite.

I was wondering if anyone had come up with an in-lore reason for it?

I had a vague idea that it could be all the hard angles and lines could be 'stealth' technology to reduce signature and cross-section, like the present day F-117 and the B-2. Over the centuries, it became standard to design craft that way with the technology becoming the norm.

Of course, at the same time sensor technology has been accelerating in an arms race with those stealth developments, so that neither has ever completely outrun the other.

And other designs (such as Imperial ones) are a further development of the stealth technology that allows them to function as well without looking so angular. I can well imagine the Imperials would care enough about the appearance of their ships to be ahead in the technologies of 'looking good without losing performance'.

But in general, the angular lines and sharp facets are just accepted as the way ships have to be to have a chance of avoiding sensors.

 

[Alex Brentnall]

A real life reason I can think of is because squares are easier to build than circles.
Elliptical wings like the Super-marine Spitfire are most optimal for aircraft yet are almost never used since they are too difficult to manufacture.

 

[bossbrigand]

I think it's a combination of cultural norms in the 3300s (the same way that cars in America in the 50s tended to have specific styling) and a need for every ship to be at least slightly capable of operating in a planet's atmosphere.

 

[EAGLE 5]

Back in the Old World Galcop days most systems and stations were allowed to build and manufacture ships in house under licensing from shipyards. This was especially true with the Viper Defence Craft (or Viper Mk.I Police Ship) which were especially needed to combat A. Rampant Piracy as well as Thargoid incursions. Simple geometric shapes were thus the easiest form to manufacture with relatively simple means.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

I hate to break it to you, but in space sleek, curvy forms of the ships does make zero sense (especially as 99,999% of the time no one will ever look at them from outside). As ED leans towards hard scifi, their ships are also utilitarian, Star Wars like. Imperial ships have more visual appeal because they are all about status and style.

 

[Karakhian]

So another reason it could be like that is ease of manufacture. Would the angular shapes help with re-entry?

Incidentally, I wasn't complaining about the appearance of classic Elite ships - I actually loved the wireframe models back in the day, and I love how they've been interpreted now.

They do look very distinctive because of that, consisting of the hard angles and facets which is what put me in mind of the stealth tech of today... and our spacecraft today do in fact tend to be built in circular sections (I'm assuming because that's the best shape for structural strength)... so I figured it'd be cool to have an in-lore reason for those beautiful polyhedral angles on the Cobra, Sidewinder, Asp, etc.

 

[Alex Brentnall]

So another reason it could be like that is ease of manufacture. Would the angular shapes help with re-entry?

Incidentally, I wasn't complaining about the appearance of classic Elite ships - I actually loved the wireframe models back in the day, and I love how they've been interpreted now.

They do look very distinctive because of that, consisting of the hard angles and facets which is what put me in mind of the stealth tech of today... and our spacecraft today do in fact tend to be built in circular sections (I'm assuming because that's the best shape for structural strength)... so I figured it'd be cool to have an in-lore reason for those beautiful polyhedral angles on the Cobra, Sidewinder, Asp, etc.

Angular ships would help if designed correctly to dissipate the supersonic shockwaves that would occur when it gets into an oxygen environment, for re-entry heat I think its surface area that is the main driver not angles...
Yeah angles do have advantages for stealth but I think in the Elite universe so much is done on heat sensors that the actual radar cross-sectional return is mostly irrelevant even when silent running.

 

[EAGLE 5]

In confined quarters (such as a size limited space station) the manufacturing process needs to be something along the lines of Stamp-Weld-Stamp-Weld and repeat.. not Stamp-Cut-Deburr-Weld-Deburr and repeat.

Makes total sense to me especially with the early ships not being atmospheric capable with the except of the Orbit Shuttle and the Transporter.

 

[2plex]

I hate to break it to you, but in space sleek, curvy forms of the ships does make zero sense (especially as 99,999% of the time no one will ever look at them from outside). As ED leans towards hard scifi, their ships are also utilitarian, Star Wars like. Imperial ships have more visual appeal because they are all about status and style.

Sorry, but the space compact form of a sphere and cube make sense in space, while the long drawn shape of ships like the Anaconda or the Capital ships does not.
Why? Because accelerating in those ships is ok as long as you accelerate in a straight line, but do so while flying a curve and the long ships structure may break, or take severe damage, depending on the acceleration force.

 

[Apos]

It's not just easier, it also provides more room and structural integrity, without losing much in terms of thrust, because there are no aerodynamics involved in a vacuum.

The "in-lore" reason is the logic reason. They wouldn't have to go for curves, so they don't. And a hydrogen fusion engine provides enough power for close to anything to (almost) not care about aerodynamics in an atmosphere, it will just overpower the gravitational pull AND the air resistance without much cost in terms of energy. (the main reason why we build aero/hydro-dynamic shapes is because we don't want to lose energy because it's currently not free. Hydrogen fusion makes it one tiny step above free.) As long as your center of thrust, center of lift and center of mass are aligned properly, it will get there.

In fact, most of the wings someone can observe would only function in order to provide solely atmospheric control.

And the imperials are the imperials, so they build their ships like that because beauty goes above utility for them.

Angular ships would help if designed correctly to dissipate the supersonic shockwaves that would occur when it gets into an oxygen environment, for re-entry heat I think its surface area that is the main driver not angles...

Ships as we see them in ED can handle standing a few Kms away from a Class B and class O stars, so reentry heat would be the last of their concern really.

 

[Alex Brentnall]

Just to throw a curveball in here:

Many (all?) ships will be capable of planet landing at some point so some semblance of aerodynamics whether accurate or not is needed.

 

[Karakhian]

Just to throw a curveball in here:

Many (all?) ships will be capable of planet landing at some point so some semblance of aerodynamics whether accurate or not is needed.

Yeah, I actually think the Diamondback might have the capability to swing its folded back upper 'wings' outwards when in atmosphere. It already pushes down its lower 'wings' and outboard engines and shifts them back along its body when landing. So I've been looking at the ship models trying to see whether there might be some other changes the ships go through to give them better aerodynamics when in atmosphere.

But you're right, they all need to fly in atmosphere eventually.

 

[GriM_AoD]

Lots of dust/debris in space. Reducing the frontal surface area reduces number of impacts (which at such high speeds amount to something)

 

[Karakhian]

Thanks for the replies all - I'd forgotten it was heat mechanics rather than radar... and while both would be detected as EM radiation, the whole point of the shape in stealth was to throw off the reflections that the active radar gives off - to hide heat, you're concealing passive generation of EM from the ship itself.

Manufacturing considerations and aesthetic norms suits me just fine

 

[Soopyyy]

Lots of dust/debris in space. Reducing the frontal surface area reduces number of impacts (which at such high speeds amount to something)

So do shields.

 

[obliterator]

Sorry, but the space compact form of a sphere and cube make sense in space, while the long drawn shape of ships like the Anaconda or the Capital ships does not.
Why? Because accelerating in those ships is ok as long as you accelerate in a straight line, but do so while flying a curve and the long ships structure may break, or take severe damage, depending on the acceleration force.

The long drawn shape makes more sense for combat though. It means you're the smallest target possible when you're either facing the enemy ship, or trying to run away. A very compact ship would be more agile, but it also be a huge target.

 

[who?]

It's not just easier, it also provides more room and structural integrity, without losing much in terms of thrust, because there are no aerodynamics involved in a vacuum.

I think this is largely it (from post-fitted lore perspective). Chunky designs provide more internal space for fuel, cargo, living quarters and modules while keeping the overall dimensions down - crucial if you're building expensive starports and outposts and need to keep the size down; or if you have to fly about in "foreign object busy" planetary rings. The Clipper is one obvious exception, style over practicality! Such a design is stronger too, and presents a lower profile for deflecting space flotsam, rocks etc. (I don't know if Elite ships have any kinds of deflector dishes or similar). Something like a X Wing or TIE fighter would be very impractical for these roles.

Aerodynamics might be a concern if these ships are capable of planetary landings, both for the re-entry phase and the atmospheric flight itself. Perhaps the wedge shapes with less obvious concave angles would also be less vulnerable to beam weapons, with reflective coating part of the laser's energy would presumably be deflected.

 

[TruffleSnout]

I had a vague idea that it could be all the hard angles and lines could be 'stealth' technology to reduce signature and cross-section, like the present day F-117 and the B-2.

One minor nit: modern day stealth is all about curves. The B-2, F-22, and F-35 all used curved/complex surfaces. The F-117 had faceted surfaces because the computers of the day (remember - the F-117 was designed back in the late 70's) did not have the computational power to calculate radar return values for complex surfaces.

 

[Hootmon]

One minor nit: modern day stealth is all about curves. The B-2, F-22, and F-35 all used curved/complex surfaces. The F-117 had faceted surfaces because the computers of the day (remember - the F-117 was designed back in the late 70's) did not have the computational power to calculate radar return values for complex surfaces.

How about a giant Wiffle ball with Golf ball dimples? Engines in the Wiffle holes, or turn it around ans call them torpedo tubes.

 

[Karakhian]

One minor nit: modern day stealth is all about curves. The B-2, F-22, and F-35 all used curved/complex surfaces. The F-117 had faceted surfaces because the computers of the day (remember - the F-117 was designed back in the late 70's) did not have the computational power to calculate radar return values for complex surfaces.

Oh, I didn't know that! Yeah, now that I think about it, the later stealth tech isn't at all angular. So scratch that idea completely, heheh.