For only 100k more, this proposed configuration could use a "2A" powerplant.
http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=70h,mp...k,05U05U7Pw03w
For range and heat dissipation, is it worth not to use this 100k ?
http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=70h,mp...k,05U05U7Pw03w
For range and heat dissipation, is it worth not to use this 100k ?
Ok so, my justification for this is as follows (disclaimer I have NO idea if this is how it works or not, much more thorough research would need to be done)
Your signature to other ships is largely impacted by your heat, thus the importance of silent running and heat sinks.
One would assume that the more power being generated, and used, the higher the heat, we see this with heavy draw modules, a 5A shield is going to draw much more power and run much hotter than a 3A shield for instance.
The higher the heat, the higher the signature.
Dissipating heat is all well and good, and Im sure an A rated powerplant is good for eliminating the heat you have already generated (i.e. when waiting to cool off before engaging silent running). As well as for staying in silent running for longer.
However I am operating under the assumption that a smaller power plant generating less energy is going to produce less heat (and thus signature) to begin with, and so I went with the power plant which generated the bare necessity for the chosen modules.
This is all testable, but we'd have to actually do the research to see what kind of power supply is most suited to sneakiness.
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Will be in game a bit later on, will test then with some results
Thanks. Does that work for other modules?
Ok so did some testing,
Subject:
I bought a brand new Diamond Back Scout, for the sake of testing I left it exactly as it comes from the factory and only swapped the power supply to gauge the effect of the PP on operating temps.
Testing Method:
I would swap the power supply, fly out from the station, make sure all modules were activated, park and let the ship sit for a few minutes to come to neutral. This is the "on" reading.
I would then deactivate every module except the PP and allow the ship to sit until I had 1:00 left on the life support to get the "off" reading and gauge the heat being generated by the PP alone.
All measurements taken with neutral pips (2/2/2) just outside the no-fire zone of Goldstein, Lembava. (on a side note I'm not sure if direct sun effects temperature, if it does, these results are bad as some were taken in sun and some were not)
The results:
TL;DR: Power Plants do generate their own heat and have to be considered. But also, it's unpredictable and individual PP's will need to be tested. Running temperatures with modules on and modules off seem to operate outside of normal realms of logic. You're going to have to test. Also I do not know if different ships would yield different results based on the same loadout.
In this case the A2 is the coldest in all conditions assuming it will power your gear.
The fact that run temperatures with modules on and modules off are SO different is interesting, it would appear that different power plants are generating far more or far less heat powering the same systems. Bigger power plants are definitely hotter than smaller with modules on, but can achieve the same temperatures when modules are off (generally).
It seems that you want to pick the three or four lowest plants required to power all your gear, and then test them individually to see what their operating temp will be with modules deactivated. A and B modules are always going to run cooler with modules on, but NOT necessarily with modules off (take note of D4(!) having the same off reading as A and B 2 modules).
Subject:
I bought a brand new Diamond Back Scout, for the sake of testing I left it exactly as it comes from the factory and only swapped the power supply to gauge the effect of the PP on operating temps.
Testing Method:
I would swap the power supply, fly out from the station, make sure all modules were activated, park and let the ship sit for a few minutes to come to neutral. This is the "on" reading.
I would then deactivate every module except the PP and allow the ship to sit until I had 1:00 left on the life support to get the "off" reading and gauge the heat being generated by the PP alone.
All measurements taken with neutral pips (2/2/2) just outside the no-fire zone of Goldstein, Lembava. (on a side note I'm not sure if direct sun effects temperature, if it does, these results are bad as some were taken in sun and some were not)
The results:
A4(15.6 MW eff B)
18% on
4% off
B4(14.3 MW eff C)
17% on
3% off
C4(13 MW Eff C)
20% on
3% off
D4(11.7 MW eff D)
23% on
2% off
E4(10.4MW eff F):
26% on
3% off
A3(12mw eff A)
17% on
3% off
B3(11mw eff C)
19% on
2% off
C3(10mw eff C)
19% on
2% off
D3 (9mw eff D)
23% on
4% off
E3(8mw eff F)
27% on
4% off
A2(9.6 MW eff B)
16% on
2% off
B2(8.8mw eff C)
18% on
2% off
C2(8 mw eff C)
18% on
4% off
D2(7.2 MW eff D)
22% on
4% off
E2(too little power to test accurately)
18% on
4% off
B4(14.3 MW eff C)
17% on
3% off
C4(13 MW Eff C)
20% on
3% off
D4(11.7 MW eff D)
23% on
2% off
E4(10.4MW eff F):
26% on
3% off
A3(12mw eff A)
17% on
3% off
B3(11mw eff C)
19% on
2% off
C3(10mw eff C)
19% on
2% off
D3 (9mw eff D)
23% on
4% off
E3(8mw eff F)
27% on
4% off
A2(9.6 MW eff B)
16% on
2% off
B2(8.8mw eff C)
18% on
2% off
C2(8 mw eff C)
18% on
4% off
D2(7.2 MW eff D)
22% on
4% off
E2(too little power to test accurately)
In this case the A2 is the coldest in all conditions assuming it will power your gear.
The fact that run temperatures with modules on and modules off are SO different is interesting, it would appear that different power plants are generating far more or far less heat powering the same systems. Bigger power plants are definitely hotter than smaller with modules on, but can achieve the same temperatures when modules are off (generally).
It seems that you want to pick the three or four lowest plants required to power all your gear, and then test them individually to see what their operating temp will be with modules deactivated. A and B modules are always going to run cooler with modules on, but NOT necessarily with modules off (take note of D4(!) having the same off reading as A and B 2 modules).
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Thanks for your job.
After consulting with CMDR Ziljan (who has some more PP heat data he researched) this situation gets even more complex as different ships will heat up differently with identical loadouts and identical power supplies, given different environments.
What this means is: the ship that runs coldest in silent running with some modules on may or may not be the same ship that runs coldest in silent running with modules off, which may not be the same ship that runs coldest when in SC, when scooping a star, or even potentially when in or out of sunlight.
I think the final summary on heat generation is that: while we know that smaller power plants ARE generally cooler than larger ones, and you're cooler with modules off than on, you're just not going to know which gear is best for you until you try it under the conditions you intend to fly it in.
I really think this is great and thumbs up to frontier for not making this just a dumbed down numbers game with a black and white "sneakiness" rating. Every smugglers ride is going to be unique to them because they've tested it and trust it.
Find a sleek ride, do your best to get temps low, test it, fill the hold with something hot and cross your fingers, as it should be.
What this means is: the ship that runs coldest in silent running with some modules on may or may not be the same ship that runs coldest in silent running with modules off, which may not be the same ship that runs coldest when in SC, when scooping a star, or even potentially when in or out of sunlight.
I think the final summary on heat generation is that: while we know that smaller power plants ARE generally cooler than larger ones, and you're cooler with modules off than on, you're just not going to know which gear is best for you until you try it under the conditions you intend to fly it in.
I really think this is great and thumbs up to frontier for not making this just a dumbed down numbers game with a black and white "sneakiness" rating. Every smugglers ride is going to be unique to them because they've tested it and trust it.
Find a sleek ride, do your best to get temps low, test it, fill the hold with something hot and cross your fingers, as it should be.
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I've been looking for alternatives to a Cobra for smuggling(for "progression" sake really), but to be honest I doubt anything beats it.
I guess it does depend on how you approach station, if you don't care about silent running then any ship can work, but if you do, I haven't found anything that runs cooler than a Cobra.
I fly around at 15-20% heat depending on what is on, usually thrusters, FSD, sensors and life support. You could go lower still with a better power plant(mine is B in thermal management). Never got scanned, no need to wait for the ship to cool down, line up with letterbox and all those shenanigans as long as you drop out of supercruise somewhere at the front of the station. I have heat sinkers mostly for when I get interdicted or when something goes awfully wrong when docking up.
To my knowledge, no other ship can go faster and still carry a lot of cargo, coupled with the low heat signature and extreme speed, the Cobra is a no brainer.
It has one more important thing going for it, it's dirt cheap. The only thing you really need to invest in is a half decent power plant and thrusters. If you manage to lose one somehow it's like 80k to replace mine lol
You can get out of any sticky situation due to the boost speed, yesterday I swapped the shield generator for 2x of the hull thingies(the one that gives armor) and honestly I couldn't be more happy with it. Even got interdicted a couple times by players and I lost like 3% hull both times before I was out of range from guns. No need for fancy ships with fancy defenses and guns.
I guess it does depend on how you approach station, if you don't care about silent running then any ship can work, but if you do, I haven't found anything that runs cooler than a Cobra.
I fly around at 15-20% heat depending on what is on, usually thrusters, FSD, sensors and life support. You could go lower still with a better power plant(mine is B in thermal management). Never got scanned, no need to wait for the ship to cool down, line up with letterbox and all those shenanigans as long as you drop out of supercruise somewhere at the front of the station. I have heat sinkers mostly for when I get interdicted or when something goes awfully wrong when docking up.
To my knowledge, no other ship can go faster and still carry a lot of cargo, coupled with the low heat signature and extreme speed, the Cobra is a no brainer.
It has one more important thing going for it, it's dirt cheap. The only thing you really need to invest in is a half decent power plant and thrusters. If you manage to lose one somehow it's like 80k to replace mine lol
You can get out of any sticky situation due to the boost speed, yesterday I swapped the shield generator for 2x of the hull thingies(the one that gives armor) and honestly I couldn't be more happy with it. Even got interdicted a couple times by players and I lost like 3% hull both times before I was out of range from guns. No need for fancy ships with fancy defenses and guns.
Ahoy Commanders!
I see that a lot of people turn to the Cobra as a smuggling ship and I'm left wondering why the Asp isn't in the mix? It's got a great jump range, lots of storage, can manage power well, so low heat profile, is a medium ship so can dock anywhere. Other than the initial cost, I'm not sure why it's not the preferred smuggling ship.
Can I get your opinions on that?
Fly safe (and sneaky!)
I see that a lot of people turn to the Cobra as a smuggling ship and I'm left wondering why the Asp isn't in the mix? It's got a great jump range, lots of storage, can manage power well, so low heat profile, is a medium ship so can dock anywhere. Other than the initial cost, I'm not sure why it's not the preferred smuggling ship.
Can I get your opinions on that?
Fly safe (and sneaky!)
I don't like having specialized ship, so I own an Asp which is a mix between exploring ship and smuggling ship (requirements for exploration and smuggling are partly the same) and it's my preferred ship.
But it cost me 28.5M for a 32 tons cargo at 28.6 LY when I could use a 6.5 M Cobra with same cargo and 21.2 LY range (both are equipped with exploration sensors).
Fully loaded, the Asp has 60% more mass than Cobra and not as good when it comes to enter fast in a station. And fleeing Cobra is a very hard target.
If fuel, maintenance and reparations costs would be implemented, this would not be a good choice.
On the other side, I could easily configure my Asp for 64 tons cargo in a way impossible for a Cobra (did so a long time, used it for "rares" trading too).
I really, really, love my stealth black Asp and if I had to choose only one ship, it would be it.
But it cost me 28.5M for a 32 tons cargo at 28.6 LY when I could use a 6.5 M Cobra with same cargo and 21.2 LY range (both are equipped with exploration sensors).
Fully loaded, the Asp has 60% more mass than Cobra and not as good when it comes to enter fast in a station. And fleeing Cobra is a very hard target.
If fuel, maintenance and reparations costs would be implemented, this would not be a good choice.
On the other side, I could easily configure my Asp for 64 tons cargo in a way impossible for a Cobra (did so a long time, used it for "rares" trading too).
I really, really, love my stealth black Asp and if I had to choose only one ship, it would be it.
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Thanks for the post, that's some good info and gives me a lot to ponder, especially your comments about mass and speed. 
Don't underestimate escape speed of a light Asp.
Rare are combat spaceships able to follow him ...
Actually, costs factors are nerfed to death in ED.
If they come back, cost/efficiency would be a parameter again and Cobra has simply a better ratio than Asp for smuggling.
But I prefer to have to work harder for my Asp than having a Cobra.
Rare are combat spaceships able to follow him ...
Actually, costs factors are nerfed to death in ED.
If they come back, cost/efficiency would be a parameter again and Cobra has simply a better ratio than Asp for smuggling.
But I prefer to have to work harder for my Asp than having a Cobra.
concerning D grade and A grade one class less: there are not so many modules where you can do this swap technically, and it's not always true for thrusters, distributors, shields... have a look at edshipyard. often the class d distributors do put more energy on thrusters/systems than weapons, than a smaller class a. and as a smuggler you don't really need weapons, right? but you don't need that heat out of D. also d-class modules are more lightweight than a A rated one class less.
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the cobra is considered a "small" ship (landing pad size), the asp is a "medium" ship. a medium ship is more easily detected, even with running cool. also small ships don't get that often scanned.
i personally smuggle in an adder, totally underpowered, 16 tons of cargo (which is more than enough for smuggling missions), very cheap, and with a tactical paintjob :-D
My DBS build: http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=70h,5Ap5Ap7sh7sh0Wg,316a6k6a3m4s3m6k,05U05U2jw2Uc
Made a cool mil just tinkering with it last night... so much fun. It's incredibly nimble. I dropped the shields cause I just wasn't having any issues with my flight control, and the extra cargo space helped.
And as much as I love tinkering with loadouts.. I love that it doesn't matter what your load out is.. if you smuggle like a dumb butt you're going to pay the fine for it. I got a little over zealous last night and was spotted carrying a load of narcotics out of my home port.. I'm not sure what was worse.. the 22k fine, or having to hang my head for getting caught.
Other than that incident.. I was running a static 25% heat, between that and my speed.. Silent running the mail slots was easy.
Made a cool mil just tinkering with it last night... so much fun. It's incredibly nimble. I dropped the shields cause I just wasn't having any issues with my flight control, and the extra cargo space helped.
And as much as I love tinkering with loadouts.. I love that it doesn't matter what your load out is.. if you smuggle like a dumb butt you're going to pay the fine for it. I got a little over zealous last night and was spotted carrying a load of narcotics out of my home port.. I'm not sure what was worse.. the 22k fine, or having to hang my head for getting caught.
Other than that incident.. I was running a static 25% heat, between that and my speed.. Silent running the mail slots was easy.
If you want to focus on smuggling, there is no way an ASP is better than a Cobra(reasons on my post before yours). If you don't like to specialize too much, then the ASP can be a better all rounder than the Cobra.
The jump range is only relevant if you smuggle stuff like you would normally trade regular goods, as in buy low sell high somewhere "far".
That is the only scenario where one can argue the ASP can be better than a Cobra. But if you do missions(VERY profitable after the buff), 20ly is more than enough to do them all in a single jump(Cobra can get that with a B rating FSD easy)
Some guy said a lightweight ASP is good for escapes, kind of true, but it's far from guaranteed, and you leave yourself open for certain ships to be able to kill you(bigger profile and salty cost to rebuy sucks), whereas the only thing that comes close-ish to a Cobra in speed is a Clipper I believe.
You could always say duck it all and use whatever you like because the requirements to smuggle successfully are pretty low, so...
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Thanks, this is lots of great info. I'm definitely thinking of kitting up Cobra to try my hand at some smuggling. :-D
Here's what I'm thinking as far as a Cobra load-out: http://coriolis.io/outfit/cobra_mk_iii/04A4A4A3D3A3D4C2a2a0q0q020203034801012f.Iw1-kA==.Aw1-kA==
Probably the weapons aren't necessary, but I feel weird not having any, but what do you all think?
Here's what I'm thinking as far as a Cobra load-out: http://coriolis.io/outfit/cobra_mk_iii/04A4A4A3D3A3D4C2a2a0q0q020203034801012f.Iw1-kA==.Aw1-kA==
Probably the weapons aren't necessary, but I feel weird not having any, but what do you all think?