Well, yes... Let's see how much that screws up PvP combat
Well, it's not a problem if they fix the broken mechanics.
-Fix so Armour protect modules
-Fix so Hull/Armour modules are useful
-Fix ability to hit modules from any angle or side of the ship
Murder in Space - How it can be punished.
- Thread starter Snarfbuckle
- Start date
Well, it's not a problem if they fix the broken mechanics.
-Fix so Armour protect modules
-Fix so Hull/Armour modules are useful
-Fix ability to hit modules from any angle or side of the ship
Maybe... But my fear is we have a weapon that becomes a defacto standard shields down tool. Much akin to a bucket of SCBs became the standard keep shields up tool!
Are you saying that murdering innocent traders is fine, just so long as you're getting paid for it?
I haven't read the whole thread but perhaps it bears remembering that at the moment it is not murder it is ship destruction. When escape capsules are implemented then I expect murdering to carry a hefty punishment but at the moment let's not totally lose perspective- despite references to death an fatal responses in the game, as yet death and thus murder simply has not been implemented yet so the appropriate punishments will be a placeholder for now.
In a way.
ALL other factions in the system you are in gets negative reputation towards you EXCEPT the one giving you the mission. It's ok for the faction giving you the job, not for everyone else - The reputation hit you take is the choice you make when you take the job - you trade reputation for money.
This should go both ways. Getting job killing pirates should give you negative rep towards the factions supporting the pirates.
EVERYTHING we do should effect our reputation.
As players we CHOOSE to do a job, or take an action and each action should have a negative consequence equivalent to the reward.
It might not be directly noticeable but if I work for Company A that gives me the job of killing Company B then sooner or later Company B who might have risen to power somewhere else block me from accessing stations they own.
but still it's off kilter. Serious traders can lose craft worth millions in just the 5% unsurance 'excess', never mind the costs to buy the cargo.
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And the ones who get their 'fun' but wiping out what could be weeks of work - months of work if an explorer gets their ship destroyed just shy of selling the data - are facing a paltry 6-9K fine. [oooh, yes, let's not forget the 7 day cooling off period. But wait, they can still operate in that system, they just have to be more carefull to not get scanned. Oh well, that solves everything, that does.]
Traders would be way more likely to drop cargo if FD included cargo insurance as standard, but that still doesn't help the explorers. They can still lose thousands of system scans, possibly tens or hundreds of thousands of detailed scans, hundreds of millions in earned income - and it's not even a valid target for piracy as the data is not kept in a 'black box' which can be scooped by the pirate and sold, it just vanishes.
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When ever this sort of argument comes up, it always seems to be the traders shouting about risk and loss of profits in one corner, pirates (both genuine and not) and murderers in the other. Neither of those groups risk as much game time or financial loss as a returning explorer that isn't even a valid target for 'proper' piracy.
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Whatever the rationalle for the action in-game, it is having a negative impact on the player, sometimes massively so. A player who destroys another player's ship has absolutely no idea about taht player's mental health and ability to cope with that action.
I have to deal with enough [Bleep]s at work, I don't want to have to do so whilst I am 'relaxing' as well.
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I do understand that anyone playing the game has the right to play it however they wish. But that is exactly the same right as I have to play it how I wish - and if enough players want to play the game a certain way, FD would be fools not to start tailoring the game that way. And I believe that there are more traders in game than any of the other professions.
I agree about the balance needing tweaking. Even the punishment for ship destruction needs to be higher. I just don't think all the hysterical drama about "murder" when talking about no loss at all other than an insurance claim that is a fraction of the cost of a ship, that hysteria helps the discussion not at all.
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Ehm, you never know anything about anyone's mental health in an online environment, and anyone can freak out about everything and you'd never know it. If you dont want to do deal with it play Mobius, or Solo, or just a different game. It is like complaining you don't like losing a game of FIFA online as it is stressfull. Sure, no problem, but maybe that person should not be playing fifa online but against an easy-mode AI instead...
My point as well. BUT i do disagree - we should not tailor to the masses because that can go the wrong way as well. We need a good NEUTRAL way to handle it.
Allow people to play as they want - but let's at least add the "Dangerous" to the playing.
There is no danger if there is no consequences to an action.
Monetary damage is not really a deterrent or a punishment.
I still belive that a reputation hit (and gain) should affect ALL actions in the game since we CANNOT be friends with everyone.
Living in an Anarchy system and shooting down all the wanted faction guys who owned the system didnt exacly make the station love me but I worked that angle by doing missions for them to alleviate the reputation hit to keeep the status quo.
So for those who wants to shoot people for fun, DO so, but there should at least be consequences for such actions.
Want to be the bloody pirate shooting down your victims after robbing the, do so, but you SHOULD earn a negative reputation for being a bloodthirsty lunatic and perhaps admired by other criminal factions.
This would also make people choose sides due to their reputation and pirates might actually start living in anarchy systems, making them "dangerous" so people actually have to PLAN their routes.
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I am a trader, I have no problem with someone trying to kill me. I have to be relaxed at work, its the nature of what I do, so when I get home I like to let off steam.
If you start thinking about people's mental health then you wouldnt get in your car in the mornings. Its a game not life. If you lose everything (which I have done) you just pick yourself up and start again, the key thing is to have fun, and not hoard loads of money that isnt even real.
6K Cr is too low, I agree. But what I think is more decisive is how the new Wanted mechanics work.
Right now I can go on a killing spree in a system, jump to it's neighbor system and forget about it.
Even when you are wanted in a system it doesn't feel like you are in danger.
The new mechanic that impedes you from removing the bounty for X time is a step in the right direction, but I believe some extra things should be addressed:
a) Security Interdictions should be much more dangerous and frequent, proportional to your current bounty AND the system's security rating
b) Your Wanted Status for that system should expand to at least a cluster of neighbor systems. Maybe that range could increase proportionally to your current bounty.
AND / OR add more NPC bounty hunters (high rank, big ships, maybe in wings) that KWS you and take the risk of attacking you where you are not Wanted, just to claim your juicy bounty.
Right now I can go on a killing spree in a system, jump to it's neighbor system and forget about it.
Even when you are wanted in a system it doesn't feel like you are in danger.
The new mechanic that impedes you from removing the bounty for X time is a step in the right direction, but I believe some extra things should be addressed:
a) Security Interdictions should be much more dangerous and frequent, proportional to your current bounty AND the system's security rating
b) Your Wanted Status for that system should expand to at least a cluster of neighbor systems. Maybe that range could increase proportionally to your current bounty.
AND / OR add more NPC bounty hunters (high rank, big ships, maybe in wings) that KWS you and take the risk of attacking you where you are not Wanted, just to claim your juicy bounty.
1. Never said anyone does know anything about any of the other players. That's why people can do what they want in these sorts of games. How many people would behave like some of the people we are discussing if their reputation in the game follwed them in real life? However, it is something that means I could not do what they do. I could not turn up in a combat ship and just destroy them for the [bleep]s and giggles. I respect that other people may have been playing the game for a long time to have it all taken away mere minutes before they reach their goal. Others can, and that's fine by me. But once you do it in-game, you reveal to me a certain lack of empathy ingame which says something about the character you are playing. Which must say something about the character you are in real life.
Having someone pirate you is certainly one of the risks that you take in-game. But the intelligent pirates know that taking too much, or killing too many, is counter-productive to their cause. Without getting into any arguements about how much traders can earn in an hour, they should fit shields and weapons, etc., if the incidences of players being interdicted and fired upon without warning, or having demands for unreasonably high proportions of their cargo, were to fall, it is my feeling that more traders would chalk up such interdictions that did occur as a cost of business, maybe even abandon cargo rather than just jettison it. This would result in more profitability for the pirates. If this occurred, it may be easier for FD to judge the difference between genuine pirate players, and those just out to make the galaxy burn - then, maybe, a better punishment system could be implimented. Having someone trying to kill you just because...reasons can certainly be equated to a murderer IRL, but the punishment in FD is just way too low. [As I have said before, in the central systems. Higher tech systems, such as Sol, should be harder for crimes to go un-noticed, and punishment should be swifter, than some little outpost system that has been built on a group of miners who have found some good stuff to mine and have finally made enough to get an outpost built to refine it. Take the old West. I'm sure that if you shot someone in cold blood in the centre of a town, you got in more trouble than if you did so out on the plains. As it stands at the moment, it doesn't actually make that much difference WHERE you do it in E: D]
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All those saying that if a player can't take being destroyed by another player they should play in solo should remember, the other side of the coin is that all those who want PVP action could be limited to CZs. IF FD have to make a choice, all I'm saying is that it would be crazy for them to side with the minority [whichever that may be], and I hope it is not just the most vocal members of their communities that they listen to. They need the most income, and they will get that - all other things being equal - from the greatest number of players.
Another thing as well - piracy is not a crime.
Why, because even if the victim is alive and can SEE you picking up crates you own the crime is not reported.
Sure, he is hauling stolen goods but the ACT of piracy is not reported.
Thats fine in Anarchy systems but not in well developed systems.
Perhaps the act of INTERDICTION on a law abiding citizen should incur a hefty fine?
After all, we are not law enforcement.
Why, because even if the victim is alive and can SEE you picking up crates you own the crime is not reported.
Sure, he is hauling stolen goods but the ACT of piracy is not reported.
Thats fine in Anarchy systems but not in well developed systems.
Perhaps the act of INTERDICTION on a law abiding citizen should incur a hefty fine?
After all, we are not law enforcement.
Yup, comitting a crime should be felt. For one week i had a bounty of 62k for 8 trader kills worth 380k.
At best i got interdicted a few times outside the system but nothing more.
The simple truth is the Elite Dangerous just isnt dangerous for well...dangerous people.
Interdiction - no crime
Forcing people to dump cargo - no crime
Blowing people up - tiny fine
The only time ED feels dangerous is if im in a poorly defended ship.
The only time i felt excitement by an interdiction was when a courier interdicted my smuggler eagle with 10 tonnes of slaves and the was faster than me.
But committing crimes in general. Nope.
Its to EASY being bad.
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You are aware that bulletin boards routinly offer missions to destroy traders. It's already in game. And if killing bot traders is ok why killing CMDR traders is not?
Actually one doesn't even have to take a mission to do this, just share the views of the mission giving faction. This is called roleplaying.
And that obviously shuts me up about consequences and challenges, doesn't it!You are aware that bulletin boards routinly offer missions to destroy traders. It's already in game. And if killing bot traders is ok why killing CMDR traders is not?
Actually one doesn't even have to take a mission to do this, just share the views of the mission giving faction. This is called roleplaying.
Sheesh!
As a professional pirate you won't get any sympathy from me for traders. They make money like fat kings while I mope along like a pauper. Boo hoo. They lost a million credits in cargo. A million credits they'll make back in the next half hour to hour. Whoopty doo!
A pirate scrapes by making 250k - 500k an HOUR. MAYBE. If they get lucky. At most I typically ask for 500k in cargo value and never more than half what they are hauling. Usually it is a quarter to a third.
No sympathy man. I don't have any. And I keep records--very detailed records of guys I pirate versus ones I kill versus all the other little nuances.
Want to know something neat? I only kill 21% of the traders I pirate.
And it troubles me that number is so high. Twenty one percent end up dying. That makes me sad, no, angry, that there are so many traders that would rather blow up than pay me a pittance of their income.
Traders are greedy. Purely greedy. It is disgusting how greedy they are. They're so greedy they would rather penalize and inflict harm upon pirates and murderers before they ever consider hiring human players to protect them for a cut of their profits.
There's a big problem with that.
Biggest profits in the game by a mile and not willing at all to pay to protect their profession and instead want to change the rules of the game to protect their ridiculous profits...
Oh, and I don't ever murder innocent traders out of cold blood. Not even now, when I murder players for sport. Traders are still off limits.
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BB missions AFAIK do not reward you for killing pilots federation members.
"Formed in 2805 after the great surge in private ownership of smaller starships, the Pilots Federation soon found a role as a conduit for trade route information exchange between trusted pilots and provided the infrastructure for a mutual protection scheme against the rising scourge of interstellar pirates. Planet-siders began to distrust the generally itinerant nature of starship captains, who always seemed willing and able to jump to a new system before the law caught up with them. The Pilots Federation’s zero tolerance policy of dishonourable behaviour amongst its members is enforced by a system of bounties automatically placed on the heads of transgressors. This built a galaxy-wide respect for the badge, which then started to be worn with pride by members. "
If your post is accurate, your actions will get no complaints from me, and IF you pirate me in open, I will probably drop you some loot - make it a reasonable request I would probably even abandon it for the experience - more cash for you, less loss for me!.
I do not think (m)any of the complaints are about people genuinely *trying* to pirate.
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