the "nothing to do in this game" club members please consider this point of view

[NVNM]

Case in point: I went from the Ghost of Jupiter to the Crab Nebula in one evening, using the method you described. Then I spent an evening just taking holiday pictures, lining up objects with the nebula to get the best Desktop Wallpapers (tm) and now I'm slowly picking my way back towards Barnard's Loop, picking the most promising systems. (Which for me is: blue-yellow-lightpurple, excuse the jargon )

Space Engine looks better and offers a more scientific approach than ED. So what exactly keeps you playing THIS game?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

My only point was to point out exploring is a little more varied than the descriptions given.

If you wish to learn about motivators I suggest visiting the exploring forums. It's quite off topic here.

 

[DogTailRed2]

All games are booring, but they are also limited in gameplay.
By the time you are bored you've pretty much done the game.
Elite is a long haul game and so players want more. 6 months in you have `done the game` but yet have not done a lot at all.
That's the problem.

 

[Soulstain]

My only point was to point out exploring is a little more varied than the descriptions given.

If you wish to learn about motivators I suggest visiting the exploring forums. It's quite off topic here.

i know what your point was and I'm not trying to beat a dead horse, it's very much on topic. It's a prime example of what ED considers "something to do", when in reality you really aren't doing anything gameplay wise except flying around pressing the bong button. I have been to the exploring forums. If I need to go to a forum to get motivations to explore then I would suggest that is EXACTLY what is wrong with this game.

 

[NVNM]

i know what your point was and I'm not trying to beat a dead horse, it's very much on topic. It's a prime example of what ED considers "something to do", when in reality you really aren't doing anything gameplay wise except flying around pressing the bong button. I have been to the exploring forums. If I need to go to a forum to get motivations to explore then I would suggest that is EXACTLY what is wrong with this game.

I have to agree. I like exploration, DESPITE it being very simplistic and unengaging. It's fine for "doing something" while listening to a podcast or somesuch. Yet the game advertises it as its own "path" and lets you rank up, which implies the whole thing should be much more involved than it is right now. My fear is, however, that once Frontier try to improve exploration they'll do so by adding more hoops to jump through just to get to the same data and payout.

 

[KaizoMK]

Racing games are a model example of a simple gameplay mechanic from which nearly endless gameplay possibilities emerge. In no small part this is because racing is almost purely a skill-based mechanic. Most racing games have a very high skill ceiling. That's why driving in circles around a track stays interesting for so many repetitions. You keep constantly learning something new and coming up with new ways to improve your play and shave off that fraction of a second from your time. With simple variations like switching the cars or the race track you can change the entire shape of the game. While playing a driving game, you're constantly making lots of small interesting decisions in a rapid succession, which all have significant effect on the end results of a race.

This is something racing games have in common with all highly skill-based game genres, such as arena shooters, RTS and fighting games.

MMO's tend to be different and based more on grinding - i.e. making the player repeatedly perform low-skilled, uninterestings tasks for a high length of time in order to gain a reward.

MMO's change at end game. You play through dungeons and raids until you full clear them and/or develop the fastest way to complete them. The appeal of MMO endgame for me is that the dungeons have their own mini story and challenge to them, and later on it can be gratifying to clear them in record times.

Your point is well made, but I see ED's progression right now as the racing game analogy, to a point. Each ship is slightly different, and the progression feels nice. The real issue is when you're anxious to progress but you're a good deal of time away from the next upgrade. That's when the missing features start to become an issue.

And the pointed out missing features sound amazing and I see why you're all missing them, but I'm slowly but surely enjoying the game, and each patch and fix will just make the experience better for me. I hope fulfilling content comes your way soon.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

i know what your point was and I'm not trying to beat a dead horse, it's very much on topic. It's a prime example of what ED considers "something to do", when in reality you really aren't doing anything gameplay wise except flying around pressing the bong button. I have been to the exploring forums. If I need to go to a forum to get motivations to explore then I would suggest that is EXACTLY what is wrong with this game.

Yeah, all I am doing is flying around pressing the bong button. And wasting my time and effort posting here, because people post here mainly to disagree, and disagree they will, even to the point of questioning what I get out of this game.

No one is saying you need to be motivated. I suggested the forum to read about other people's motivators as a response to: Space Engine looks better and offers a more scientific approach than ED. So what exactly keeps you playing THIS game?

 

[Genxav]

All games are booring, but they are also limited in gameplay.
By the time you are bored you've pretty much done the game.
Elite is a long haul game and so players want more. 6 months in you have `done the game` but yet have not done a lot at all.
That's the problem.

I think it would be more like "All games GET boring" depending on the game, that depends on the limited gameplay. Some games have so much fun gameplay that people pass them over and over again to master its gameplay. ELITE is not quite there yet.
Since Elite is a long haul game, i think they should have implemented better long haul and deep mechanics. As it stands right now its very shallow. You don't have to do something a million times over to know it will be basically the same. Probably the game is way to predictable, and that is make make it boring.

I enjoyed the game when it was novelty and in beta when i was expecting FD to add amazing stuff. Then release came and well same beta, same old shallow things. I even reset my game when the game released. Sadly it got boring fast when i realized not much had changed, from a pill to 400 billion systems of basically the same. Exploring fun....for a while.....until you start noticing the patterns. Even the space feels like a lifeless prop, it is lifeless, no events happening. No storms no auroras, no nothing. Just Procedural planets that basically look the same. there are no anomalies on different systems just to make exploration interesting.

Sure space is BIG! that much is clear to anyone who likes space games and astronomy we are not even a speck of dust in the grand scale of things, but for god sakes this is a game that is supposed to be fun in the long haul. You want costumers, provide amazing gameplay beyond. Gameplay that will stand the test of time. Gameplay that will compete with the pretty graphics, and that will leave the Novelty of the game eating dust and walk past it and be even better.

It is evident for the many people that play the ED, that the gameplay is lacking and its failing the test of time at a mere 6 months, even with "expansions". This game will die if the devs don't get their act together and fix some obvious things that need fixing.

When it hit the consoles if nothing is fixed the whining will be even worse. Because what console players want more than anything is Gameplay worth their time, Engaging gameplay.

 

[Soulstain]

No one is saying you need to be motivated. I suggested the forum to read about other people's motivators as a response to: Space Engine looks better and offers a more scientific approach than ED. So what exactly keeps you playing THIS game?[/QUOTE]

The hopes that it will eventually be the game they sold me on. Right now I'm hardly playing it. I play Evochron Mercenary for a better flight model, atmosphere and planetary landings. XRebirth for more immersion and things to actually do gameplay wise. I had hoped for so much more with Elite but as it stands, it seems I will have to wait for the new EM, SC, NML and Rogue System. Good thing they are all on the way!

 

[Apos]

i know what your point was and I'm not trying to beat a dead horse, it's very much on topic. It's a prime example of what ED considers "something to do", when in reality you really aren't doing anything gameplay wise except flying around pressing the bong button. I have been to the exploring forums. If I need to go to a forum to get motivations to explore then I would suggest that is EXACTLY what is wrong with this game.

I don't think there is much problem with exploration, with the exception of a few more random occurences being welcome. It's only surveying after all.

The problem is that the data is pretty much useless right now, since we can't interact with the systems in other ways. Exploration has 2 functions: Wanderlust and e-peen by getting your name on star systems. It works great for satisfying both.

Maybe a time where we can expand towards outer space comes, it will acquire more uses. Although it will be limited to nearby space obviously.

 

[Stigbob]

The hopes that it will eventually be the game they sold me on. Right now I'm hardly playing it. I play Evochron Mercenary for a better flight model, atmosphere and planetary landings. XRebirth for more immersion and things to actually do gameplay wise. I had hoped for so much more with Elite but as it stands, it seems I will have to wait for the new EM, SC, NML and Rogue System. Good thing they are all on the way!

Evochron is a good little game but it's not exactly big, about 30 systems (maybe less) if I remember right. Felt very small very quickly for me and it was far too easy to get rich quick. It was nice to be able to plot precision micro jump locations inside stations though.

Have they fixed X-rebirth, I thought it was universally panned as broken rubbish ? (33/100 metacritic)

 

[random_tangent]

Well, since you asked nicely There are as many ways of exploring as there are explorers. What you described there is just one of them.

There's the OCD explorer who won't rest until the last spec of dust is catalogued. There's the close-up explorer who visits planets up close and personal to see if there are weird lighting affect due to an argon atmosphere for instance. (I find overshooting to work best) There are the tourist explorers who set out to visit galaxy marks like nebulae or famous stars. There are neutron star farmers. There are science explorers, usually players with astronomy knowledge who go into the specifics of a system and it's bodies.

And these are just the ones who can be roughly put into a category. Usually explorers will combine a number of these dependant on where the mood takes them.

Case in point: I went from the Ghost of Jupiter to the Crab Nebula in one evening, using the method you described. Then I spent an evening just taking holiday pictures, lining up objects with the nebula to get the best Desktop Wallpapers (tm) and now I'm slowly picking my way back towards Barnard's Loop, picking the most promising systems. (Which for me is: blue-yellow-lightpurple, excuse the jargon )

If you want I can bore you with links from exploring threads I made.

So, from my vantage point it's a little more elaborate than:

or



If you want I can bore you some more with a thread I made addressing developers to address exploring issues.

I have a question, if you're amenable. Leaving aside hyperbole or value judgements, do you believe exploration is a "complete" gameplay experience, both in terms of what there is to see and in terms of the mechanics of exploration gameplay? Would you be pleased to see more content, greater variety and more in terms of gameplay? Do you believe it should be a priority for FD?

Ok, that was three. My bad!

 

[Derath]

Yeah, all I am doing is flying around pressing the bong button. And wasting my time and effort posting here, because people post here mainly to disagree, and disagree they will, even to the point of questioning what I get out of this game.

No one is saying you need to be motivated. I suggested the forum to read about other people's motivators as a response to: Space Engine looks better and offers a more scientific approach than ED. So what exactly keeps you playing THIS game?

See the thing is, if you enjoy the game already your just in a great spot - I don't know why you'd come on and disagree, they can't really make exploration worse than it is at the moment so anything they add you'd probably like correct?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I don't think there is much problem with exploration, with the exception of a few more random occurrences being welcome. It's only surveying after all.

The problem is that the data is pretty much useless right now, since we can't interact with the systems in other ways. Exploration has 2 functions: Wanderlust and e-peen by getting your name on star systems. It works great for satisfying both.

Maybe a time where we can expand towards outer space comes, it will acquire more uses. Although it will be limited to nearby space obviously.

This has been a criticism from my point of view as well.

The natural development is: Exploration -> investigation -> colonisation and exploitation. I would very much love to see and exploration driven expansion. It would also solve the issue of not finding untagged systems close to the bubble, since th bubble will expand with it.

I have a question, if you're amenable. Leaving aside hyperbole or value judgements, do you believe exploration is a "complete" gameplay experience, both in terms of what there is to see and in terms of the mechanics of exploration gameplay? Would you be pleased to see more content, greater variety and more in terms of gameplay? Do you believe it should be a priority for FD?

Ok, that was three. My bad!

I think the core mechanics are there. I would like to see a better system map, the orrery looks fantastic, so you get a better sense of the system you're visiting.

I would like the rewards geared towards expanding humanity into space as I described above.

I would also like to see the graphical features (geysers, aurora borealis and the like), but I understand that would have to wait for planetary landings. After all, you need to swoop through the atmosphere to collect samples or stuff like that.

I would love better and more varied tools to examine systems.

See the thing is, if you enjoy the game already your just in a great spot - I don't know why you'd come on and disagree, they can't really make exploration worse than it is at the moment so anything they add you'd probably like correct?

It's telling you don't know why I would come here and disagree. I think that's mainly because people react to a simple point I made and draw all kinds of stuff kicking and screaming in there, which are completely unrelated to the point I made. On the one hand, it's rather annoying to be misrepresented over and over again. On the other hand, if people need to misrepresent the point I made, I must have made a good one.

It goes like this:
Exploring is a little more varied than that.
Fanboy alert!

Exploring is a little more varied than that.
Oh, so you're an expert on how we enjoy the game?

Exploring is a little more varied than that.
No it isn't. It's just honk and hop.
Takes the time to explain why it isn't
No it isn't. It's just honk and hop.

Lastly, enjoyment isn't binary. There's a lot of room for improvement. But just because there is, that doesn't mean I'm not able to enjoy exploring as it is now. Probably because I don't measure my enjoyment in credits per hour but in number of memorable experiences. And no game has given me more of those than exploring in E : D. Without claiming everyone would have enjoyed them, this is all completely subjective.

 

[Derath]

It goes like this:
Exploring is a little more varied than that.
Fanboy alert!

Exploring is a little more varied than that.
Oh, so you're an expert on how we enjoy the game?

Exploring is a little more varied than that.
No it isn't. It's just honk and hop.
Takes the time to explain why it isn't
No it isn't. It's just honk and hop.

Lastly, enjoyment isn't binary. There's a lot of room for improvement. But just because there is, that doesn't mean I'm not able to enjoy exploring as it is now. Probably because I don't measure my enjoyment in credits per hour but in number of memorable experiences. And no game has given me more of those than exploring in E : D. Without claiming everyone would have enjoyed them, this is all completely subjective.

I'm sorry If i misrepresented you its hard to keep track of what goes back and forth here without repeatedly reading through everything.

To somebody who enjoys exploration its always going to be more than honk and hop

To somebody who doesn't honk and hop is a perfect summary

However both are benefited from the admission that the content is lacking and requires more that's my only point, though I also think it doesn't detract from anything to say its boring but I enjoy it, or words to that effect.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I'm sorry If i misrepresented you

I have no idea whether you did or not, didn't keep track of who said what, but if you didn't and I made it sound like you did, I apologize as well.

Your turn

 

[Razeth]

I don't think anyone wants a "rigid storyline". Quite the opposite! People want less rigidit, more options and more emergent gameplay. This was all stuff promised/suggested from Kickstarter days, and yet we don't even have the dynamic economy promised. Hell, if myself and a friend are flying the same trade route, we're lucky if we even get the same commodity prices, yet alone anything approaching realistic dynamic prices!

To use your analogy, this is indeed a sandbox open world, but we've only been given a spade, no bucket yet! And if you use that spade, you'll hit the bottom of the sandpit just a couple of mm down.


Ask youself, do any of the following things appeal to you. If the answer is yes, then ask yourself, why can't I do (any of) them?:-

• When flying around you receive a distress signal. When you answer it, an NPC ship is under attack by pirates and you fight them off. The NPC thanks you. Later on this same NPC - now trusting you - asks you to protect him on another journey. If he doesn't die, he later asks you to do even more important missions for him. etc.
• You receive a mission to protect a convoy. You can take on this mission alone or wing up. The more convoy ships that survive the more you are paid. Note: Other CMDRs (if you are in OPEN) are being given the mission to attack/destroy the ships in the convoy for payment.
• You find a gas giant in a remote system. As you're flying around it you notice a huge aurora borealis around one of the poles.
• While flying around a system on the edge of human populated space, you encounter a USS. You explore it and find a huge odd ship. It's a Generation Ship (as per original Elite).
• While flying around a system on the edge of human populated space, you see a set of asteroids on the system map. When you go there you can see strange lights on one of them. If you get too close, military vessels warn you you are entering restricted space. What do you do?
• When exploring 10,000ly away, near a famous nebula you hyperspace into a system, and find a scientific platform there no one else has found before. There's only a dozen or so of these (around major spots in the galaxy). Each has a number of exploration missions to carry out.
• On a the bulletin board, you find a mission to go to a nearby system and scan a comet.
• You're given a mission to go to a derelict/dead station to find/recover a data capsule from within it. It's used by pirates now, so do you go to this station and fly into its pitch black inards alone? Or do you take a wing? Do you sneak in using silent running or go in all guns blazing?
• You're given a mission to find a secret platform in an asteroid field and scan it. You must get in without being detected else enemy ships will be called in.
• I'd like to employ and outfit an NPC wingman. Therefore while I'm trading I still have some protection. I can command them to attack this, or defend that. If I take on one of the convey defense or assault missions, this NPC wingman will prove very useful! Do I pay more or less for a better NPC pilot?

Can you see why many people think ED is paper thin? If you consider space games from 10+ years ago, many had more depth and certainly more interesting mission than ED does now.


And this isn't even scratching the surface of the lack of emergent gameplay that was proposed in the early days of ED... We basically have next to none I'd argue.

I want this.

 

[Deyu]

I want this.

I also want this.

 

[Meteor2]

No one is saying you need to be motivated. I suggested the forum to read about other people's motivators as a response to: Space Engine looks better and offers a more scientific approach than ED. So what exactly keeps you playing THIS game?

The hopes that it will eventually be the game they sold me on. Right now I'm hardly playing it. I play Evochron Mercenary for a better flight model, atmosphere and planetary landings. XRebirth for more immersion and things to actually do gameplay wise. I had hoped for so much more with Elite but as it stands, it seems I will have to wait for the new EM, SC, NML and Rogue System. Good thing they are all on the way![/QUOTE]

... And IMHO Space Engine is a far better experienced for space explorers. There I have the feeling that the next star around the corner offers new things, surfaces and views to the stars and the milky way. That's not boring in any way!

 

[Ruskodisco]

ever since everyone who plays ED saw that one obsidian ants video rant about emergent gameplay and how there isnt any (which i agree)
everyone in the forums started using that word "emergent". i find it amusing

i totally agree that the missions in here could receive some loving.

i also wonder how they are going to tackle this problem when walking around your ship and stations expansion comes out, cause that will add a whole new dimension to this game.