Frontier literally have no idea how to balance roles (not hyperbole, evidence inside)

One of Elite: Dangerous' biggest flaws has always been role imbalance with regards to earnings. To their credit they have been attempting to fix this. However, their changes seem to more be based on hunches and guesswork rather than accurate data. If you're feeling skeptical, consider this evidence:


Bounty Hunting: - Bounties were increased by 100% around 1.2, then an additional 50-100% bonus for certain powers with Powerplay
Exploring: - Payouts increased by 100%, and a further 50% bonus for first discovery, and with an additional 100% bonus for being rank 5 with Sirius Gov
Mercenary: - Combat bonds increased by 100% around 1.2, then doubled again for 1.3
Pirate/salvager: - Black market stolen good prices increased by 50%
Smuggling: - Archon Delaine and Pranav Antal Black Market bonus introduced, then reduced by 50% twice
Mining: - Mineral output increased by 25% in RES


Why are all these values such neat, round numbers? Why so many flat doubling? Imagine if this happened with weapons. Look at Combat bonds being buffed by 400% and imagine if a weapon was buffed by 400% and still remained suboptimal. You'd know that the design team was at best working with faulty data.

Furthermore, why are most of these roles (aside from smuggling if you're rank 5 with Archon Delaine and bounty hunting) still not worth the effort for large scale moneymaking once you have 5+million in assets? Mining was supposedly one of the main focuses of 1.3 but despite missions, collectors prospector limpets and more it remains laughably inferior to trading while being far far more dangerous.

You may argue that none of this matters. Just do what you want right? Money isn't that important, just have fun, right?



Powerplay Makes this Imbalance intolerable


I was willing to put up with this position up until the release of powerplay. Now Frontier have shown themselves not only willing to be able to balance credits/hour, they also can't balance merits per hour. Undermining unaligned powers via combat or pouring credits into mass-buying power commodities is the only viable way to make merits.

Combat expansions and undermining aligned powers via piracy for 1 merit per kill or cargo remain 3-10 times so less effective than undermining unaligned powers for 15 merits per kill or simply buying merits that we are already seeing the effects.



Combat powers are doomed and the empire will go virtually unopposed unless merits earnings are changed


This cycle the combat powers are already finding it harder and harder to meet their expansion targets as players realise it's simply an incredibly suboptimal way of earning merits. Moreover, the empire's massive success can be directly linked to their inability to effectively undermine or oppose one another. Arrissa and Aisling should be at each others throats but undermining or opposing via piracy is simply so difficult and unrewarding almost no one is doing it!

Archon, Hudson, Antal and Patreus will all eventually stop expanding because no one will be willing to expand for them. Arrissa's massive numbers will keep her going for a while but eventually she too will stop expanding, leaving powers like Aisling and Torval as the major powers in the galaxy. Not because of tenacity, or intrigue, or struggle, but because they will be at a fundamental advantage


What Frontier Needs


What I would be willing to bet money that Frontier doesn't have, is someone assigned to actually measuring role effectiveness with regards to credits. Someone to either test first hand, or collate info and metrics from the community and compile into an excel spreadsheet of earnings at different asset levels. They need to balance based on cold, hard data, not by doubling the income till the whining stops.

Such a person could refine careers to the point where the difference between them is less massive and we can do (I'm sad this is a radical concept) what we enjoy and be equally rewarded for it.

A few percentage difference is ok, but in a situation where the worst-earning career (Perhaps NPC piracy at ~200,000 an hour in absolutely optimal ships) is 5,000% worse than the best (commodity trading at up to 10,000,0000 an hour) is completely unacceptable in a modern professionally made game.


**Disclaimer: I have no first-hand experience of of game development, though I do have a keen amateur interest and some experience as a QA in a software development environment**

EDIT:
Some people have complained about overwrought language. Looking back I think they have a point. I don't have time to rewrite it but I will balance out the negativity by saying that Elite is amazing and I have great respect for everything that Frontier have done
 
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True.

Always seems to be one step forward and two steps backwards with about 15 sidesteps thrown in somewhere just to confuse/smokescreen the tactical retreat.

Don't know why, mind you. We rarely get told anything these days and when we are, it's always open to a myriad of interpretations.......hopefully clarity/improvements will be coming.......soon.
 
The game isn't fun when you're making 200,000 cr/hr trying to play the game your way when the space trucker overlords are buying 100 anacondas and eating prime space rib in their space trucks made of solid space gold

yup this game is real fun wow so cool
 
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Another thread with newspaper like subject. What's wrong with "Current PP balance is wrong in my opinion" or "Not good balance for PP at this point".

FD *sure* have way better idea how to balance the game, because, well, they have *all* data. What you have is your experience - which don't get me wrong is very important to FD - but with such subject it can get easily overlooked.

Just love smell of armchair's game developer's coffee in the morning.
 
Another thread with newspaper like subject. What's wrong with "Current PP balance is wrong in my opinion" or "Not good balance for PP at this point".

FD *sure* have way better idea how to balance the game, because, well, they have *all* data. What you have is your experience - which don't get me wrong is very important to FD - but with such subject it can get easily overlooked.

Just love smell of armchair's game developer's coffee in the morning.
your post was on point +11 reps thank you for posting you are right his experience doesnt matter he is just an armchair LOL
 
Another thread with newspaper like subject. What's wrong with "Current PP balance is wrong in my opinion" or "Not good balance for PP at this point".

FD *sure* have way better idea how to balance the game, because, well, they have *all* data. What you have is your experience - which don't get me wrong is very important to FD - but with such subject it can get easily overlooked.

Just love smell of armchair's game developer's coffee in the morning.

My problem isn't that Frontier aren't balancing the game according to my ideals. I'm concerned that they themselves aren't fulfilling their own aims due to a lack of data and testing.

If someone at frontier would come out and say "Yup, we want some roles to be 6x more effective than others" that's very different to the current situation where they appear to want all roles to be viable but are failing to achieve that
 
I'm not sure that the aim has ever been to create uniform generation of credits per hour played regardless of activity, rather then a fun game to play.

Exactly. Why should all roles be equal? Do we live in a communist galaxy where everyone gets the same rewards no matter what they do? No, we don't.



Combat powers are doomed and the empire will go virtually unopposed unless merits earnings are changed


This cycle the combat powers are already finding it harder and harder to meet their expansion targets as players realise it's simply an incredibly suboptimal way of earning merits. Moreover, the empire's massive success can be directly linked to their inability to effectively undermine or oppose one another. Arrissa and Aisling should be at each others throats but undermining or opposing via piracy is simply so difficult and unrewarding almost no one is doing it!

Archon, Hudson, Antal and Patreus will all eventually stop expanding because no one will be willing to expand for them. Arrissa's massive numbers will keep her going for a while but eventually she too will stop expanding, leaving powers like Aisling and Torval as the major powers in the galaxy. Not because of tenacity, or intrigue, or struggle, but because they will be at a fundamental advantage

This I agree with.
 
FD *sure* have way better idea how to balance the game, because, well, they have *all* data.

Aye, would be nice if they spoke to us about it once in a while. They don't and we thus have no choice but to speculate and chat from the comfort of our armchairs, hoping for a titbit of info to fall off the plate.
 
My problem isn't that Frontier aren't balancing the game according to my ideals. I'm concerned that they themselves aren't fulfilling their own aims due to a lack of data and testing.

If someone at frontier would come out and say "Yup, we want some roles to be 6x more effective than others" that's very different to the current situation where they appear to want all roles to be viable but are failing to achieve that

That's reasonable concern. Just...don't use sensational titles please. Overall your post is good quality feedback. Otherwise I wouldn't bother to comment :)
 
I don't claim to be better at game development than Frontier. Hell, it's why I'm playing their game rather than trying to make my own. But Frontier welcome community feedback and have previously based major changes on it, so why deny them constructive criticism they want?
 
Aye, would be nice if they spoke to us about it once in a while. They don't and we thus have no choice but to speculate and chat from the comfort of our armchairs, hoping for a titbit of info to fall off the plate.

Speculation is fine, but saying they don't care or they dont know their game is really a hyperbole in my book. Lot of actually good data can get overlooked because such titles or claims attract toxic crowd.
 
Another thread with newspaper like subject. What's wrong with "Current PP balance is wrong in my opinion" or "Not good balance for PP at this point".

FD *sure* have way better idea how to balance the game, because, well, they have *all* data. What you have is your experience - which don't get me wrong is very important to FD - but with such subject it can get easily overlooked.

Just love smell of armchair's game developer's coffee in the morning.

No. Having all the data does not mean you know how best to use and interpret it. You may well find the peoples' shared experience is a more valid yardstick of a situation than the people with all the data.

Perhaps you could be more condescending in your next post?

Just love the smell of armchair experts in the morning.
 
I don't claim to be better at game development than Frontier. Hell, it's why I'm playing their game rather than trying to make my own. But Frontier welcome community feedback and have previously based major changes on it, so why deny them constructive criticism they want?

Your feedback is welcome, it is very good as I said. Don't think too much about it. My problem was with subject line only :)
 
No. Having all the data does not mean you know how best to use and interpret it. You may well find the peoples' shared experience is a more valid yardstick of a situation than the people with all the data.

Perhaps you could be more condescending in your next post?

Just love the smell of armchair experts in the morning.

What I said that people want to share their experience, but for some unknown to me reason, they side with using emotional language and hyperbole most of the time. Thus making lot of commentary unparsable.

I know it's kinda internet thing where everyone should be 100% right, but hey, I can express my worries about being a trend, can't I?
 
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