Message to FD from everyone in Open. Please stop everything and fix instancing/matchmaking first.

Majinvash

Banned
Majinvash
This is a post for people who play in Open and maybe to a degree group. If you are a solo player, this won’t affect you.

Hi

All the work you are doing to give the game I love to play, content and direction is all welcome but please STOP.

Please concentrate on the match making software and how your program generates instances.

This isn’t even a P2P Is a terrible idea thread.

This is simply asking you to make happen what you say should happen in ED.

You said 32 player instance. I don’t think I have ever seen more than 20 players in an instance and that instance was a station.

Last night the 3 man wing I was in was in Eravate. There was not another player to be found.

While at the same time, we were watching a steam of another wing, in the same system and they had 3 other players in SC.
After several log out and in attempts to reset the instance, we all gave up and went to bed.

This is not a rare occurrence but then you know this.

You gave us the non-instachanging shields. This we can rarely take advantage of as most of the time when you jump back into SC, your prey is in another instance.

You produced a wake scanner, which because of instancing is practically useless.

Player groups trying to blockade as part of Powerplay, great. But even without the private group and solo players, you rarely see many in system making it a little redundant.

You even have someone at FD wanting to talk to player groups, for something you are cooking up. Great IF we can see each other.

I and all the others in Open are not asking for much, just for you to honour some of the basics of what you said Elite would be.

So please, stop trying to amaze us with flashy lights and just concentrate on the real basics of what annoys and constantly frustrates a HUGE amount of your player base.

Just wait until the XBONE players cannot see each other if you want to see teen rage!

Thank you
Everyone in Open

TL;DR – Instancing Sucks, Stop everything until you fix the basics
 

CMDR Sam00197

C
Majinvash said:
This is a post for people who play in Open and maybe to a degree group. If you are a solo player, this won’t affect you.

Hi

All the work you are doing to give the game I love to play, content and direction is all welcome but please STOP.

Please concentrate on the match making software and how your program generates instances.

This isn’t even a P2P Is a terrible idea thread.

This is simply asking you to make happen what you say should happen in ED.

You said 32 player instance. I don’t think I have ever seen more than 20 players in an instance and that instance was a station.

Last night the 3 man wing I was in was in Eravate. There was not another player to be found.

While at the same time, we were watching a steam of another wing, in the same system and they had 3 other players in SC.
After several log out and in attempts to reset the instance, we all gave up and went to bed.

This is not a rare occurrence but then you know this.

You gave us the non-instachanging shields. This we can rarely take advantage of as most of the time when you jump back into SC, your prey is in another instance.

You produced a wake scanner, which because of instancing is practically useless.

Player groups trying to blockade as part of Powerplay, great. But even without the private group and solo players, you rarely see many in system making it a little redundant.

You even have someone at FD wanting to talk to player groups, for something you are cooking up. Great IF we can see each other.

I and all the others in Open are not asking for much, just for you to honour some of the basics of what you said Elite would be.

So please, stop trying to amaze us with flashy lights and just concentrate on the real basics of what annoys and constantly frustrates a HUGE amount of your player base.

Just wait until the XBONE players cannot see each other if you want to see teen rage!

Thank you
Everyone in Open

TL;DR – Instancing Sucks, Stop everything until you fix the basics
Click to expand...


I can agree with this, I want to play with more than 3friends at a time! Its boring otherwise!
 

Tinman

Tinman
Instancing and matchmaking is handled by people who know how to code these type of things. Asking FD to stop everything else (3D artists, sound engineers, designers, writers and so on) will never make any sense, no matter how many times posts like these are written.

Personally I works rather well for me, but yes, I'm not really trying to push it to its maximum with my play-style.

Oh...and the 32 number limit is and has always been a theoretical maximum. In practice you will probably never see it due to different quality connections between players. Roughly 20 players is what I've seen to at max and I don't really expect to see much more than that unless I would be extremely lucky!
 

Kitiara

Kitiara
Majinvash said:
This is a post for people who play in Open and maybe to a degree group. If you are a solo player, this won’t affect you.

Hi

All the work you are doing to give the game I love to play, content and direction is all welcome but please STOP.

Please concentrate on the match making software and how your program generates instances.

This isn’t even a P2P Is a terrible idea thread.

This is simply asking you to make happen what you say should happen in ED.

You said 32 player instance. I don’t think I have ever seen more than 20 players in an instance and that instance was a station.

Last night the 3 man wing I was in was in Eravate. There was not another player to be found.

While at the same time, we were watching a steam of another wing, in the same system and they had 3 other players in SC.
After several log out and in attempts to reset the instance, we all gave up and went to bed.

This is not a rare occurrence but then you know this.

You gave us the non-instachanging shields. This we can rarely take advantage of as most of the time when you jump back into SC, your prey is in another instance.

You produced a wake scanner, which because of instancing is practically useless.

Player groups trying to blockade as part of Powerplay, great. But even without the private group and solo players, you rarely see many in system making it a little redundant.

You even have someone at FD wanting to talk to player groups, for something you are cooking up. Great IF we can see each other.

I and all the others in Open are not asking for much, just for you to honour some of the basics of what you said Elite would be.

So please, stop trying to amaze us with flashy lights and just concentrate on the real basics of what annoys and constantly frustrates a HUGE amount of your player base.

Just wait until the XBONE players cannot see each other if you want to see teen rage!

Thank you
Everyone in Open

TL;DR – Instancing Sucks, Stop everything until you fix the basics
Click to expand...


Frontier,

please disregard everything this poster posted. The multi-player facets of the game are working pretty well now. The constant stream of new features and iterations on old features are wonderful and a constant source of joy with the game.
 

Cmdr Kurnek

Cmdr Kurnek
much as I would point out that you don't automatically speak for all in open, I agree with you.

Hell, once the game reaches a completed enough stage (IE: not yet, at least have all professions work and a degree of combat balance (weapons, shield cells, powerplant etc) I'd be happy to pay a voluntary subscription for a few extra quality of life bonuses (extra character slot, maybe some skins, more storage capacity when module storage is eventually introduced)
 

Cosmos

C
Arubeto said:
Plain wrong. Don't feel so entitled to think you know what everyone wants. Instancing problems have a pretty low priority for me, I'd rather see many other stuff done first. And yes, I play in "open".
Click to expand...

I wouldn't ask FD to drop everthing to resolve this issue but I do think it should be up there in priorities of things to address. I've lost count of the number of times friends and I have winged up and had problems in doing so, and found ourselves at the Lave hub and seen no one. Many frustrating experiences trying to get in on the action, yeah looking for great pvp battles..

The present situ is letting down the game big time imo. ;)
 

Rardain

Rardain
Why do people continue to post with titles claiming to be speaking for everyone...unless you have taken a census and every single open player has agreed with your sentiments then what you claim is just inaccurate at best and a lie at worst. I couldn't even be bothered reading the rest of your post Majinvash!
 

quickr

quickr
LOL, we don't need more than 32 player instances, 'cos there is only 14 players playing in open. Everyone else went to solo :D :D :D

On more serious note, yes, I would like to see large battles between player groups or bigger wings. But I don't think we'll ever live to see it.

It would be excellent if one solar system is one instance for it self so you can see all cmdrs that are in the same system as you.
 

CMDR Zantiry Kaine

CMDR Zantiry Kaine
Agreed. The instancing needs fixing. I play in a wing of 3 most nights but until the last couple of days we could never, not once, see all the wing members in an instance. Two of us are in the same house and have never had problems joining together. About a week ago we got one of our friends to start playing and had nothing but problems. When only one member of my household was on we could sometimes, maybe, get lucky and see our third man. We tried restarting, jumping around, making our own private group, and even did the whole port forwarding thing. Oddly the thing that has worked consistently these last couple days was making the move into open play.

EDIT: Well I agree it needs fixing but not that they should stop everything else. As was stated above not everyone at FD can code the instancing stuff and shouldn't stop making other improvments.
 
Last edited:

Tinman

Tinman
quickr said:
LOL, we don't need more than 32 player instances, 'cos there is only 14 players playing in open. Everyone else went to solo :D :D :D

On more serious note, yes, I would like to see large battles between player groups or bigger wings. But I don't think we'll ever live to see it.

It would be excellent if one solar system is one instance for it self so you can see all cmdrs that are in the same system as you.
Click to expand...

Systemwide instances would actually be worse for player interaction. I'll just copy something I wrote a while back:

-----

The "EVE model" won't work. In EVE actions are basically dicerolls that are put in a queue on the server for processing when it has time to get to it. Latency is therefore not that big of a problem and IF you still get latency issues you can choose to slow down time (timedilatation) to compensate and give the server more breathingroom. Same thing applies to every other MMO. Roll a dice and add the result to a queue on the server.

In ED actions are instantaneous. Where you aim is where you hit. There is no "queue" in the same sense to put the actions in since everything happens in real time. Slowing down time to compensate is not an option either due to how the game is played. On top of that a lot more information is sent between players due to more complex movement data and physics calculations that needs to be synced up. Similar restrictions applies to other "twitchbased" games like Star Citizen, CoD, BF, Destiny and so on...that is why many games like this have player limits around 16-32 players. There are exceptions with higher numbers (Planetside for example), but these often cut corners in regards to accuracy and physics.

Matchmaking and breaking things up in instances is therefore needed and it doesn't matter if P2P or dedicated servers are used. Dedicated servers might have some other benefits (and MUCH higher running costs), but it wouldn't solve the player max limit and suddenly let you meet hundreds of other players at the same time. Star Citizen will be using dedicated servers but still matchmaking and instances for the very same reason and they are talking about maybe a 50 theoretical player limit.

As for making the instances bigger (whole star systems) that would only result in you meeting LESS people.

Right now the matchmaking server keeps track of everyone and if several people are located in one location (let's say a station) the server will try to match as many players as possible in that area against each other. If the instance was across an entire system then people would be spread out all over the place. Maybe 6 in the Nav Beacon, 4 in supercruise, 5 in different signal sources, 10 at one of the stations, another 8 spread out across the other stations and so on...if the instance was across multiple star systems it would be even worse. And what would be the benefit of being matched against players you don't know in another star system? You can't meet or interact with them anyway.

Here is a quick sketch to show you what I mean if we for simplicity sake assume a 6 player limit per instance:

U0EJ9xgl.png
 

CMDR Malkov

C
Cypher871 said:
Why do people continue to post with titles claiming to be speaking for everyone...unless you have taken a census and every single open player has agreed with your sentiments then what you claim is just inaccurate at best and a lie at worst. I couldn't even be bothered reading the rest of your post Majinvash!
Click to expand...
In fairness to the OP surely the only reason to play in Open is to see other players. People are posting that they disagree and have a 'different style' of open play but I am a little confused as to what that could mean if it doesn't involve being able to see other players, wing mates etc. Maybe just saying o7 to people at stations?

Clearly there are issues with the instancing although I would guess that this may have more to do with the different ways people connect than some fundamental flaw in how it is implemented. Port forwarding and other router stuff seem to help some people with the problems.
 
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