Jump range limit

[Genxav]

So after i was wondering, what is the reason or logic behind the limit on the jump drives? Being on the other side of the galaxy and having to do 22ly jumps gets boring, i wish i could jump 9/10 of my fuel in one go even if it took 3 minutes looking at the warp screen or something like that.

So while im slowly warping back to civilized space, whats your taken on the reason for the jump range limit?

 

[Whiterose]

Elite Lore.

 

[Kzak]

Technology limitations, I guess. Besides, in 1984 Elite, we could only jump 7 LY at a time...

 

[Genxav]

well that was elite 1984, the reason for that?

I would be amazing to have options, like "Override Jump Protocol"

You could jump maybe 3 times the standard jump range at a cost of maybe overheat and some minor damage if used lets say 3 or 4 times in a row. And would make your ship temp higher for a short time. Because right now temp means nothing to the jump range. Not even fuel

 

[Chewbacca]

The longer the jump distance, the more fuel is required. I had 70t fuel capacity in my Python (thanks to extra fuel tanks) and on max distance jumps I was burning through HUGE mounts of fuel. (I switched to a really big/good fuel scoop instead)

There appears to be some kind of exponential increase for fuel needed/distance jumped.

 

[Genxav]

The longer the jump distance, the more fuel is required. I had 70t fuel capacity in my Python (thanks to extra fuel tanks) and on max distance jumps I was burning through HUGE mounts of fuel. (I switched to a really big/good fuel scoop instead)

There appears to be some kind of exponential increase for fuel needed/distance jumped.

yeah but the requirement varies and never one jump eats the whole tank. Thats what i meant, if FUEL is the limiting factor seems practically fine to be able to jump longer since at least with a cobra a 22ly jump eats 2/10 of your tank. so why not a 66ly jump that eats 6/10 of my fuel

 

[CMDR Hagglebeard]

yeah but the requirement varies and never one jump eats the whole tank. Thats what i meant, if FUEL is the limiting factor seems practically fine to be able to jump longer since at least with a cobra a 22ly jump eats 2/10 of your tank. so why not a 66ly jump that eats 6/10 of my fuel

To eat 9/10 of your fuel you'd probably get 26 ly. Exponential, no linear.

 

[CMDR Harada]

Yeah, it's the exponential bit that would tend to make it less than useful. Also why you can go a heck of a lot further if you plot using 'most economical' versus 'fastest'.
.
What I'd like to see is the option to pay a starbase to warp you to a specific destination. I'd pay 1 million credits to get a one way ticket to Sag A, or the neutron fields near the galactic poles. Getting back would still be a PITA....

 

[majogl]

To eat 9/10 of your fuel you'd probably get 26 ly. Exponential, no linear.

For one thing this.

For another, i would like to see a small exploration-dedicated vessel added to the game. I made a suggestion about it some time ago, but by now its probably buried somewhere... What i mean when i say small exploration-dedicated?

- No hardpoints
- 2x Utility mount
- Every internal module class one except fuel tanks which would be class 3
- One class 3 compartment (for fuel scoop) and 2 class one compartmets (for scanners)

If not these exact classes, then at least something similar (Like Asp with a class 6 FSD instead of 5)

I would imagine that this kind of ship would have very weak hull (and no shield, no field maintanence unit), but would be able to jump 50-60Ly and couldn´t be interdicted (reasoning could be that this is due to its extremely powerful FSD)

 

[Spanksh]

Well since the Hyperspace jump is nothing like normal propulsion OR super cruise, I suppose normal rules of fuel consumption don't apply here.
First, this means fuel consumption is rising exponentially with jump distance. Second, the kind of FSD decides the amount of maximum fuel used per jump, while the weight of the ship and amount of fuel defines the jump range. So what can we deduce from that (obviously just an educated guess) is that technically jump range is unlimited, however you need more and more fuel for each additional LY, and the FSD has to handle more and more fuel at once.

However, as you said, what keeps you from using the entire tank then? The hyperspace jump consumes the entire amount of fuel at once, not gradually like the other 2 forms of transportation. Now consider that e.g. 5t of fuel used at once (we are talking fusion here, not combustion) is an incredibly massive amount of energy, that has to be handled.
So if you tried to jump any further with a smaller/lower quality FSD, it would probably simply rip you apart.

 

[Surly_Badger]

Well, if you assume energy cost goes up with the square of the distance, you'd get to a point where jumping cost nearly infinite energy. Setting aside that we're assuming faster than light travel, I'm comfortable with assuming that hyper-jumps are energy-limited.

Another possibility is maybe that your "frame shift drive, charging" means that the drive has to collect enough energy in its capacitor-whatsit banks to do the jump, and that the jump's maximum range is limited by the size of the capacitor-whatsits and their heat dissipation. Though, on that score, I think it'd be awesomely cool if there was a super-range jump drive that maybe took 15 minutes to charge, cost a huge amount, and pushed you 1000ly in more or less the direction you were trying to go, and sometimes into a star.

 

[Sysmon]

Well, if you assume energy cost goes up with the square of the distance, you'd get to a point where jumping cost nearly infinite energy. Setting aside that we're assuming faster than light travel, I'm comfortable with assuming that hyper-jumps are energy-limited.

Another possibility is maybe that your "frame shift drive, charging" means that the drive has to collect enough energy in its capacitor-whatsit banks to do the jump, and that the jump's maximum range is limited by the size of the capacitor-whatsits and their heat dissipation. Though, on that score, I think it'd be awesomely cool if there was a super-range jump drive that maybe took 15 minutes to charge, cost a huge amount, and pushed you 1000ly in more or less the direction you were trying to go, and sometimes into a star.

Or left your ship a burned-out husk, adrift in space, so close to home but yet so far away...

I'd like to turn this discussion on its head and say that jumping is too easy, we can get around too quickly and with little consequence at the moment. While the galaxy is in no danger of being fully explored, people are able to hit the highlights with no issue in a few weeks time or quicker if they rush.

Jump drives should degrade quickly and be cheap to repair (at stations). And if we were able to repair/jerry rig them in space and carry parts/replacements to fit while out, exploration would be partly a mini-game about keeping the ship running for long enough.

Being able to set up depots (automated extraction systems/factories to build parts and feed the autorepair systems, and storage space for spare modules) along the way would be great. Similar to the automated mining units in FFE, they could be coded to the individual and potentially be hacked by other players if found. These depots could eventually expand into small bases if used often enough and for a price.

Right now exploration has the charm of being able to see a lot of interesting stuff thrown together by Stellar Forge (and it is stellar indeed). But there is little consequence, and the only thing I found exciting about making it back is to not have jumped into a star along the way.

S

 

[CMDR Harada]

For one thing this.

For another, i would like to see a small exploration-dedicated vessel added to the game. I made a suggestion about it some time ago, but by now its probably buried somewhere... What i mean when i say small exploration-dedicated?

- No hardpoints
- 2x Utility mount
- Every internal module class one except fuel tanks which would be class 3
- One class 3 compartment (for fuel scoop) and 2 class one compartmets (for scanners)

If not these exact classes, then at least something similar (Like Asp with a class 6 FSD instead of 5)

I would imagine that this kind of ship would have very weak hull (and no shield, no field maintanence unit), but would be able to jump 50-60Ly and couldn´t be interdicted (reasoning could be that this is due to its extremely powerful FSD)

.
That is a freaking AWESOME idea. Although I'd like to see it with maybe a class 1 shield and a minimal FM unit. Accidents happen when you're out in the black and one 'Ooops' shouldn't totally bork the whole expedition. But for certain no hard points and all other stuff class 1.

 

[majogl]

.
That is a freaking AWESOME idea. Although I'd like to see it with maybe a class 1 shield and a minimal FM unit. Accidents happen when you're out in the black and one 'Ooops' shouldn't totally bork the whole expedition. But for certain no hard points and all other stuff class 1.

Well you would know going in that you are in an extremely fragile ship architectured for deep space exploration and would have to be extra extra careful In outer space, one oopsie and you die.

 

[PavelKCZ]

Idea of special exploring ship without hardpoints etc. is interesting, BUT...

When it comes to immersion and overall sci-fi ethos of the game, who would want to explore deep space without decent shields and firepower ? Who knows, what is hiding in another quadrant of the Galaxy ? Of course, we can be almost 100% sure that there is nothing there (it is a pitty, but that is another story). But how we can be sure that after another update, there will not be born something evil thousands of LYs from Sol ?

 

[CMDR Hagglebeard]

For one thing this.

For another, i would like to see a small exploration-dedicated vessel added to the game. I made a suggestion about it some time ago, but by now its probably buried somewhere... What i mean when i say small exploration-dedicated?

- No hardpoints
- 2x Utility mount
- Every internal module class one except fuel tanks which would be class 3
- One class 3 compartment (for fuel scoop) and 2 class one compartmets (for scanners)

If not these exact classes, then at least something similar (Like Asp with a class 6 FSD instead of 5)

I would imagine that this kind of ship would have very weak hull (and no shield, no field maintanence unit), but would be able to jump 50-60Ly and couldn´t be interdicted (reasoning could be that this is due to its extremely powerful FSD)

Do realize that thargoids and perhaps worse will appear. Something will be killing explorers, which is why the DBX has a large hardpoint.

 

[jacozilla]

So after i was wondering, what is the reason or logic behind the limit on the jump drives? Being on the other side of the galaxy and having to do 22ly jumps gets boring, i wish i could jump 9/10 of my fuel in one go even if it took 3 minutes looking at the warp screen or something like that.

So while im slowly warping back to civilized space, whats your taken on the reason for the jump range limit?

I dont know Elite lore, or design reason why implemented this way - but i can give you the logic of 16th-21st century history and precedent.

ever since humans have made things that go boom / launch / fire things, our ability to propel that ball / bullet / missile / thing has been more powerful than our ability to accurately target that thing to go / land where we want.

in mil-speak, every piece of military hardware or weapons systems has a max range and effective range. Maybe the Elite universe tech progression has been no different than our real one - jump drives may be able to slingshot you by power whatever range your tank full of juice would allow - lets say 180 LY.

but the targeting scanners and systems may only be accurate enough to plot and jump you a fraction of that distance.

not saying i wouldnt like increased jump ranges myself, but you asked for a logical reason and there you go.

maybe a new system where you had a max and effective jump range, and the more you pushed outside your effective jump range, the increased odds you'd land a few systems over, many-many light years over, or materialize inside a dwarf star

that kind of increased risk / reward tradeoff would seem like a cool new feature.

 

[majogl]

Well as to the issue of no armament and shields... There are heavier exploration ships in the game already... You can have decently armed asp and still have cca 30Ly jump range... But realize that what i am proposing is not this kind of ship... What i am proposing is best described as light scout... You zoom across the galaxy in this craft with the sole purpose of exploring, scanning and documenting data... That is all i intended for that craft.. You run into trouble, you get the hell out of there, report back, and call the big kids.

 

[Genxav]

I dont know Elite lore, or design reason why implemented this way - but i can give you the logic of 16th-21st century history and precedent.

ever since humans have made things that go boom / launch / fire things, our ability to propel that ball / bullet / missile / thing has been more powerful than our ability to accurately target that thing to go / land where we want.

in mil-speak, every piece of military hardware or weapons systems has a max range and effective range. Maybe the Elite universe tech progression has been no different than our real one - jump drives may be able to slingshot you by power whatever range your tank full of juice would allow - lets say 180 LY.

but the targeting scanners and systems may only be accurate enough to plot and jump you a fraction of that distance.

not saying i wouldnt like increased jump ranges myself, but you asked for a logical reason and there you go.

maybe a new system where you had a max and effective jump range, and the more you pushed outside your effective jump range, the increased odds you'd land a few systems over, many-many light years over, or materialize inside a dwarf star

that kind of increased risk / reward tradeoff would seem like a cool new feature.

have some rep, that does make sense. I would risk to get jumped to a random system though

 

[Shadowed]

What if we could unlock our jump drives, but the unlock would cause enough instability that it would essentially randomize your destination. Like Lost in Space.