Turmoil - Power play - Discussion

[Roen Soul]

That is a square estimation which is giving a good guess. Approximation is a good way to predict the correct answer, but to get the correct answer you need to add in the given numbers from the game.
This y2k/74000 is not how it is calculated, it is how it can be estimated.

Everyone can calculate the correct overheads with given information.

There are costs to maintain fortification which is a clear part of overhead. The number of systems which are kept in control takes 1 each. There is certain overhead caused by undermining the system.
I get far more exact number by adding the details given inside of the game into the calculation than trying this square estimation.

CC/W is the most important thing to check before adding a fortress to it. If you keep adding bad systems into your power you will get less command capital to expand and to hold on to your fortresses.
Please, stop the lies about the horrible overheads based on distance to capital system. That is an absurd claim and has absolutely no base in either calculation method given here.

Expansion to better systems is going to be always the better way upward. Keeping the bad systems will drag the power downwards.

So called quality CC/W and possible undermining effects calculated of the system matters more in the entire picture than what some players claim.
Every player who prepares stations with less than 95 CC/W is causing more costs to power than gaining. 95 CC/W is average balance point which some stations could withstand undermining without being problem.
Any station with 95 - 75 CC/W above is good for military strategy, but it can not be calculated as solid income. Any system below 75 CC/W is taking the CC down and should be let go to turmoil.

The distance from capital is calculated in preparation costs and it ends there.

 

[Roen Soul]

I'm not sure anyone said it did. Distance from HQ does determine upkeep, however.

Please, stop this. The given details are in the game. Every system have their given information about costs.

Please, if you have 400 systems with so many bad systems in it you will go into turmoil to get rid of bad systems.

Example LUGH

16 CC/W is terrible income for the power and they are going to fortify it. The opponents will instantly undermine it to cost 3 times more than the income from that system.
That system is the worst option for any power to take. That is one best example what not to do. It does not protect the power, it is totally the opposite.

They should be focusing on taking a new system with far better income.

The other real bad calculation has been done in BANGWA. Right after it has been fixed, the enemy will trigger the undermine, making it cost more to power than keeping it.
That station is another which would be better in enemy hands than in own.

Winters have 62 CC points for error and they will pay for it because of LUGH.

If I had to choose, I would give LUGH to enemies and path the road with roses. Please, take it. By all means.

 

[Xeonyx]

Except you are talking about upkeep costs here, while the real problem is overheads. Arrissa's upkeep costs have been really small, almost negligible at the end of cycle 4 (400 CC of upkeep vs 4400 CC of income). The reason we're in turmoil right now is our staggering overheads, sitting at 4000 CC.

We have a lot of systems that are very good in terms of income, and we obviously focused on taking such high-profit systems since the beginning as it seemed like the obvious thing to do. But this is actually the main reason for our problems. High_income systems are high-income systems because there are many other systems in their exploitation bubble. The catch is that overheads are based on the number of exploited systems CUBED, so high-income systems actually generate big losses in CC once a power grows past a certain threshold (circa 400 systems apparently).

So in the end, the only mean to not get overwhelmed by overheads is not to expand past 400 systems... except the system pretty much forces the powers to expand continuously, so there's nothing one can do but put on a helmet and brace for impact with the unmovable wall that FD has placed ahead of us. You can only try to hit this wall later by expanding into system that do not have many exploited systems attached to them but still yields a reasonable CC income. Which is counter intuitive to say the least.

 

[OlliM]

It might be because I am post night shifts, but this thread makes my head hurt!!!!!

 

[jgm]

Please, stop this. The given details are in the game. Every system have their given information about costs.

Yes, and upkeep is determined by distance from HQ. Not sure why you are becoming upset about this; it's a simple fact and very clear from the information provided.

I have a full list somewhere but at the low end the upkeeps are:

<31.6ly - 21cc
<44.5ly - 22cc
<54.7ly - 23cc
<63.2ly - 24cc
<70.7ly - 25cc
<77.4ly - 26cc
<83.6ly - 27cc
<89.4ly - 28cc

 

[Subotai]

The problem is people themselves Ian Doncaster. Changing a system in rules, because people seem to do the wrong things does not seem to be a solution at all. The problem is where people get the required information, how they process this information and eventually do with the given information. When something goes wrong in even step one then basically everyone else that does get the information is doomed. People seem to be blinded by small rewards too by moving around insane amounts of merits that simply burns them out on it and completely miss out on the actual goal.

For the most part people don't really get the graphical interface in what really needs to be done to be successful as a faction and as a result don't really care as long as they get their little bonus after a cycle. The problem is interpretation and mentality.

Everyone in Lavigne's faction now has a bigger clue on where to go to get things on track again, because they can't move around merits until the 'Turmoil' status is gone. But by having this block you still have the question if it might not be better to let the system go. The system under 'Turmoil' does not have to be a bad system at all and it might be better to let go of other systems with a crap CC rate. This is the point where you know nothing and also not know if any work on it will be wasted time. What the graphical interface also lacks is that you can't really see on what systems is being voted to get a better understanding on what the majority is trying to do without any communication. Some try to post a thread about a faction that is trying to do something, but when people are already too spongy on understanding an interface then you'll most likely won't find them on a forum to see if there's any form of coordination there.
The graphical interface must be way more clear about what is really happening in that very hour and where things are lacking attention or what is utterly pointless to invest time in. Allot of PP pilots are essentially aimless in a part of the game that needs good coordination and information. This is simply not present. The only indications are mainly how a bar is filling up by checking it during a certain period and what happens after a cycle. It's very hard to see who is putting too much effort where till it's too late. The fact that you can fill up a bar endlessly to 1200% to oppose 0,5% when the trigger was already at 40% seems bonkers to me. Most of these pilots simply don't care or are very proud that they reached 1200% without a scratch and think they did a great job.

Aaaaand there's the problem right there!!! Idiot pilots! Busting my tail trying to "Fortify" systems that had yet to reach their trigger and when I look at the closest system to HQ, what do I see?!...The closest controlled system is at 3000+%...3000+%!!! Freakin' outrageous!!! What that means is, All those idiot pilots were looking for easy merit gains. Blindly shuffling Garrison Supplies to that ONE system to earn merits as quickly as possible like R-Tard Lemmings!!! Once a system hits it's trigger, there is no need to blindly move supplies or reports...it's at 100+%!!! Move on to another system that NEEDS to hit it's trigger! It's not like the other 2900% is going to make a difference if the underminers hit THEIR trigger! Now...EVERY system in the ALD camp is in turmoil!!! And there isn't ANYTHING that can be done! NOTHING! You can't fortify ANY of the controlled systems cause they are ALL in turmoil, which means the upkeep can't be reduced, which means come next cycle, REVOLT! 56 of 57 controlled systems are in turmoil...56! The only one NOT in turmoil CAN'T be in turmoil cause it's the HQ system! So...starting next cycle...1.......1 controlled system!

Thank you Lemmings...your ALL idiots.

For those of you who do not fit in the shoes...ignore my lemmings and idiot pilots comment....we tried....we were not outnumbered by the opposition...we were outnumbered by the sheer idiocy of our own T.K.F.T. "Faction Mates".

 

[Whiterose]

Aaaaand there's the problem right there!!! Idiot pilots! Busting my tail trying to "Fortify" systems that had yet to reach their trigger and when I look at the closest system to HQ, what do I see?!...The closest controlled system is at 3000+%...3000+%!!! Freakin' outrageous!!! What that means is, All those idiot pilots were looking for easy merit gains. Blindly shuffling Garrison Supplies to that ONE system to earn merits as quickly as possible like R-Tard Lemmings!!! Once a system hits it's trigger, there is no need to blindly move supplies or reports...it's at 100+%!!! Move on to another system that NEEDS to hit it's trigger! It's not like the other 2900% is going to make a difference if the underminers hit THEIR trigger! Now...EVERY system in the ALD camp is in turmoil!!! And there isn't ANYTHING that can be done! NOTHING! You can't fortify ANY of the controlled systems cause they are ALL in turmoil, which means the upkeep can't be reduced, which means come next cycle, REVOLT! 56 of 57 controlled systems are in turmoil...56! The only one NOT in turmoil CAN'T be in turmoil cause it's the HQ system! So...starting next cycle...1.......1 controlled system!

Thank you Lemmings...your ALL idiots.

For those of you who do not fit in the shoes...ignore my lemmings and idiot pilots comment....we tried....we were not outnumbered by the opposition...we were outnumbered by the sheer idiocy of our own T.K.F.T. "Faction Mates".

Its not just your faction, Patreus is suffering from morons who want easy merits rather than doing anything sensible. We even have people prepping systems this cycle that have alreday been prepped last cycle and should be expanded, not prepped.
FD want us to play however we want. Fine. We need to change powerpaly so that players can play how they want without destroying others good work. The solution is automated expansion. Players do missions for their power, the missions can be as varied as you like, you get points for the missions and at the end of the cycle if you have reached a tier or threshold the power expands. That way the players that only go 0.000001Ls for a mission can keep grinding and it will benefit the power. After all why shoul players decide what systems to expand, it should be down to the powers leaders.

 

[Deadlock989]

Blaze your own trail

Even if it's stupid

 

[Ben Ryder]

So let's just say it's not a bug that has caused the potential collapse of A Kavugny-Duval. Lets say it's all working as intended. Lets also say it was down to human nature. What would the smart folk do to turn things around if they could? Is it sheer weight of numbers and mob rule that's causing this? A dear friend of mine once said that the more people in a group the lower the IQ of the group. They went on to say something that large groups of people have the average mental age of a five year old. Could this have something to do with it? How can the individual make a difference?

 

[SirAdelaide]

After all why shoul players decide what systems to expand, it should be down to the powers leaders.

The mission system you outlined would be sensible, with missions based on the leader's expansion preferences.

But also, merit should be based on how useful you are being. Unnecessary fortification should give 0 merit, while killing intruders in your power's space should provide merit.

The main reason at the moment for stupid power play action is that stupid action is rewarded.