progression bars and rank ups? really?

[whipdiddywhip]

i started playing elite a few days ago (i know some of you will call me out on that) but all i see in this game is progression bars and ranking up, really FD? this was the style of gameplay used a decade + ago, games have evolved past being completely depending on progression bars and ranks, don't get me wrong they still have a place but not revolve the whole game on them.

Games nowadays give the players tools to create their own emergent gameplay, they also are heavily waited towards giving players choice, Elite as far as ships concerned doesn't give the player any choices whatsoever, its simply a linear progression to an all round better ship that just outperforms the ship below it in every aspect, "powerplay gives you choices" i hear you say, well no it doesn't, its all the same ranks and progression bars who ever you choose, it just puts a different face on it.

i guess the point im trying to make is that FD are dictating TOO much to player how things should be done, you need to give the players more control and more choices(ships for different roles, not just a-b-c getting better, also if a group of players want to go and mess up a system of the enemy they should have options other than just progress bars) if any dynamic and emergent gameplay is ever going to happen. if you don't give player more power and choice(also more social/player interaction) then it'll just continue to be the same linear predictable set of progression bars it is now.

flame away

 

[Sandmann]

Even the noobz can see it, why can't FD?

 

[Defacto]

You have to use your imagination! You are only saying this because your previous experience with casual games have made you unable to accept the varied dynamic emergent fleshed-out interactions!
These bars stand for something! They might just be coloured lines, but they are also the pillars of how this world functions! And coloured lines.

 

[Zieman]

Even the noobz can see it, why can't FD?

FD don't want to?

 

[Don_Von_Hulio]

Because this is what FD interpreted after all the whining over how convoluted the game is. They changed nothing, but gave us some bars so we can see what most people have already figured out...

 

[Badben]

The fact that you have only been playing a few days is very obvious, you have no idea what you are talking about. Ships are NOT an a-b-c linear progression at all. The Asp is almost a dedicated explorer, viper is a fast combat ship, I am not simply trying to get an anaconda, I don't even think I'll buy one when I have enough money. As for your statement that FD are dictating what I do is laughable, I do what I want when I want. Maybe this isn't the best game for YOU, but I love it, as do many, many others. Please don't come in this forum after having only played a few days and start telling us why this game sucks, it's very, very insulting to those of us who like it, play a while longer at least before you pretend to know everything and then come with legitimate detailed ideas for improvement. If you just don't like the game, go play something else.

 

[Obsidian Ant]

i started playing elite a few days ago (i know some of you will call me out on that) but all i see in this game is progression bars and ranking up, really FD? this was the style of gameplay used a decade + ago, games have evolved past being completely depending on progression bars and ranks, don't get me wrong they still have a place but not revolve the whole game on them.

Games nowadays give the players tools to create their own emergent gameplay, they also are heavily waited towards giving players choice, Elite as far as ships concerned doesn't give the player any choices whatsoever, its simply a linear progression to an all round better ship that just outperforms the ship below it in every aspect, "powerplay gives you choices" i hear you say, well no it doesn't, its all the same ranks and progression bars who ever you choose, it just puts a different face on it.

i guess the point im trying to make is that FD are dictating TOO much to player how things should be done, you need to give the players more control and more choices(ships for different roles, not just a-b-c getting better, also if a group of players want to go and mess up a system of the enemy they should have options other than just progress bars) if any dynamic and emergent gameplay is ever going to happen. if you don't give player more power and choice(also more social/player interaction) then it'll just continue to be the same linear predictable set of progression bars it is now.

flame away

I don't think anyone can logically or sensibly flame you for saying there are too many progression bars to fill. It's a fact that the game is full of progression bars, and tiers and unlocks.

I'm hoping that all the emergent game play elements are on the way in the future. Once we get them, people will be able to look back and compare it to the current game play, and maybe then understand what you are saying.

 

[Ian Skippy]

The fact that you have only been playing a few days is very obvious, you have no idea what you are talking about. Ships are NOT an a-b-c linear progression at all. The Asp is almost a dedicated explorer, viper is a fast combat ship, I am not simply trying to get an anaconda, I don't even think I'll buy one when I have enough money.

You are mistaken: the OP is an anti-ED post so it needs not be correct. Just agree and mention DDA for bonus points.

 

[Winterwalker]

The fact that you have only been playing a few days is very obvious, you have no idea what you are talking about. Ships are NOT an a-b-c linear progression at all. The Asp is almost a dedicated explorer, viper is a fast combat ship, I am not simply trying to get an anaconda, I don't even think I'll buy one when I have enough money. As for your statement that FD are dictating what I do is laughable, I do what I want when I want. Maybe this isn't the best game for YOU, but I love it, as do many, many others. Please don't come in this forum after having only played a few days and start telling us why this game sucks, it's very, very insulting to those of us who like it, play a while longer at least before you pretend to know everything and then come with legitimate detailed ideas for improvement. If you just don't like the game, go play something else.

I think the OP has a point though, that progress bars are a bit of a distraction. While one goal, may be, to reach Elite .. the focus really should be on having fun, and let rankings happen almost by accident. One day you look up and "oh, I'm dangerous now!" Who knew?

Am not sure how long progress bars have been in, or whether they were put there to popular demand, but for me, while I don't have a massive objection to them, on balance I'd probably prefer they weren't there. Most of the left and right panels are very cleary vehicle control systems .. the ranking sliders are (overtly telling you) "this a game."

While that's already obvious, whether it's necessary to remind or to make your elite rank an important goal above all others, makes this an interesting OP.

 

[CaptainKremmen]

<snip>

Am not sure how long progress bars have been in

A couple of weeks.

...or whether they were put there to popular demand

<snip>

Not as far as I'm aware, no. They just appeared out of the blue.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I think the OP has a point though, that progress bars are a bit of a distraction. While one goal, may be, to reach Elite .. the focus really should be on having fun, and let rankings happen almost by accident. One day you look up and "oh, I'm dangerous now!" Who knew?

Am not sure how long progress bars have been in, or whether they were put there to popular demand, but for me, while I don't have a massive objection to them, on balance I'd probably prefer they weren't there. Most of the left and right panels are very cleary vehicle control systems .. the ranking sliders are (overtly telling you) "this a game."

While that's already obvious, whether it's necessary to remind or to make your elite rank an important goal above all others, makes this an interesting OP.

It was added in 1.3, after many people complaining progress was hard to track.We used to have loads of topics on when the next rank would be, and people saying FD needed to give more insight. Please note how this is suddenly forgotten by the 'boo FD' crows. If you read the release topic you'll see people being very happy about this addition, wich pretty much no opposition though.

See, that is the fun part: you can literally complain about anything and the usual FD-bashers show up to support you. Not enough bars? Boo FD! Too much bars? Boo FD! Don't care either way? Boo FD!

So here we have a topic about how in elite, a game about becoming elite and literally named after this objective, becoming elite is too much in the centre. Is that odd? Maybe, but we'll cheer you on as long as you are negative!

Boo FD!

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Not as far as I'm aware, no. They just appeared out of the blue.

There *was* popular demand for giving bars and numbers. Since Gamma people have complained how game doesn't tell anything.

- - - Updated - - -

It was added in 1.3, after many people complaining progress was hard to track. If you read the release topic you'll see people being very happy about this addition, wich pretty much no opposition.

See, that is the fun part: you can literally complain about anything and the usual FD-bashers show up to support you. Not enough bars? Boo FD! Too much bars? Boo FD! Don't care either way? Boo FD!

So here we have a topic about how in elite, a game about becoming elite and literally named after this objective, becoming elite is too much in the centre. Is that odd? Maybe, but we'll cheer you on as long as you are negative!

Boo FD!

Right in the middle! FD just can't win forums. It seems they don't even try though.

Seriously though, if anyone wants to petition FD for an option to remove bars and numbers and replace with something less pronounced - count me in.

 

[Captain N]

Those people were wrong and FD should never have listened to them.

 

[Defacto]

Well maybe the reason people are so conflicted and complaining in either case is that they expected the entire background simulation and political system be something more than progress bars to events. At least from what I remember at the time, a lot of the complaints that asked for this kind of progress indications came from people who wondered what was going on, since FD had decided that it was best to pretty much give no information at all about how the faction system worked, and the only ingame indication of what was going on at all was an ''Influence'' score and glitchy indicators that some times seemed to indicate that a state change was happening but typically disappeared if you exited and entered the menu again.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Those people were wrong and FD should never have listened to them.

And we are right guys to listen? Even I with all my fanboism can't claim that.

To be frank, i don't mind bars and numbers. I guess there's enough complexity in game itself so give some perspective of your progression regarding ranking isn't worst thing FD could have done.

I wouldn't mind, however, alternative mode of having some round progress circle and no numbers. Or possibility to turn it off.

 

[Winterwalker]

So here we have a topic about how in elite, a game about becoming elite and literally named after this objective, becoming elite is too much in the centre. Is that odd? Maybe, but we'll cheer you on as long as you are negative!

Not really trying to be negative .. as Pecisk says, I guess the ideal thing might be option to on / off these things. I guess what I'm trying to say is that there are also people complaining of grind .. as, for whatever reason they feel they "must" get on .. either to the next ranking / ship or whatever.

What is interesting, is that playerbase called for these sliders, when FD began without them. So in fact FD had it right at the beginning and all along. Playerbase are not game designers, only game players, as you know, if I wanted to win at chess, I might also try to get the designers to make all my pieces into queens? I might be more able to win, but does it make a better game? ... (discuss).

It's just interesting .. as said, I don't mind them too too much (apart from being a bit of a flight sim nut), but you never know if progress bars MIGHT contribute to the way some people play the game or perceive "grind"? Don't know myself, and probably more interested in the 180K single jump round trip trading run, I just discovered, and in process of milking out the demand on before the feds arrive. It's a great game .. how do we help, to make it even better?)

 

[Captain N]

And we are right guys to listen? Even I with all my fanboism can't claim that.

I don't know about us, but I certainly am.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

--- Deleted ---

 

[Winterwalker]

Great post Falconfly .. I'm with that, your faction rep, rising / falling as trend indicators
(and I'm going to read your post again, slowly, to get some tips from it .. repped)

I'd suggest there's a diff though still, between trendings, which help you to play, and "goal indicators".

If you're new to the game (which I relatively am) .. the one in the right panel, that tells you how much further you have to go to get from harmless to mostly harmless, is actually the (only) one I was thinking of .. arguably just that one which is a little in your face as it pops up every time you look to the right? And that is a goal indicator, nothing more, what does it really inform?

Drill down though, arrows that the federation likes you "better" .. and you are bang on Commander.


edit: does your ELITE ranking suffer .. if you fall out with a government?

 

[Fatdaddy]

Those people were wrong and FD should never have listened to them.

You mean those people were wrong according to YOUR playing preferences....

If they remove those status bars to improve your personal immersion then they surely have to remove every status bar in the game otherwise how could any of it be realistic...then you can just blindly but immersively guess your way through to YOUR goals.

I am not totally against this, if it is an option that can be turned on/off. There are over 500,000 players so they are going to have varying requirements and expectations, we all have equal right to our personal opinions and equal lack of rights to force them onto the other 499,999 CMDRS.