Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].

[Jockey79]

I'll answer WoW as I've not played the others

Infact there isn't really a point If you think World of Warcraft has the same amount of things to do as ED there isn't any point in continuing this further i'll agree to disagree

Not sure if I explained it right, or you missed the point on purpose :S

All MMOs have half a dozen actual game play mechanics, the only thing that changes as you progress is the size/colour and shape of what you interact with - but you re still repeating the same actions over and over.

Go and kill X, come back to Y
Go and find A, bring back to B

They dress them up with stories, but the actual mechanics used are the same.

As for dungeons/raids - they are just a linear run. Kill trash until you find the sub boss. Kill said boss. (number of sub bosses changes depending on level of dungeon/raid).
Once all subs are gone, go find the actual boss and proceed with the 10 minute fight - wait for daily/ weekly timer to do it again.

You end up with the typical skill rotation in your tray with the "standard" skill points being spent so every character ends up exactly the same.
Run in, 1,2,3,4 <cool downs> 1,2,3,4 <cool downs> 1,2,3,4 and so on. Every pack of wolfs, every group of Orcs and every raid boss;
1,2,3,4 <wait for cool downs> 1,2,3,4, <wait for cool downs>

At least ED has not go to the point where there is "standard" ship configs for combat. There is for hauling and exploring, but so far you can bounty hunt or pirate with most items. Not sure on smuggling if there is a best set up as I don't do it.

All games, I'm sorry to say, do boil back to the same core mechanics just repeated over and over. The only things that change is how well the Dev teams can fluff them up to mask that you are repeating yourself.
Blizzard are quite good at throwing fluff stories to distract folks, but with years of practice I'd hope so.
Next time you play WoW (or any MMO), go through your quests and strip the fluff away and actually look at what you are leaving town to do.

 

[Majinvash]

Its not about looking down, its frustration of people abusing a system.

This is a thread about open vs solo.

If you choose to play only part of the game that is fine, but it shouldn't effect the players that want to play all of the game.

That effect could and has make it pointless for a lot of things in open.

Lets take power play as the case and point.

It is about one side trying to beat the other side(s).
This is done by taking something from A and dropping it at B or killing something in a system and then returning to turn in the credits.

This is competitive game play. Anyone who argues it isn't, is truly kidding themselves.

But its all false because players can choose to play in Solo or Group, uncontested. Making any work the players in open to oppose it a farce.

Its like playing a football match when you can only tackle half some of the players.

 

[SteveLaw]

The galaxy is dynamic. It changes with or without your input and your input is only a tiny part of the influence. You can't control everything. Get over it.

Its like playing a football match when you can only tackle half some of the players.

No it isn't. It's like a long jump competition where some of the competitors want to win by breaking the other competitors' legs and then getting upset because they won't let them.

 

[Robert Maynard]

This is competitive game play. Anyone who argues it isn't, is truly kidding themselves.

But its all false because players can choose to play in Solo or Group, uncontested. Making any work the players in open to oppose it a farce.

Competitive it may be but there is no requirement for that competition to be direct - if there were then Powerplay (and Community Goals) would be restricted to Open - which they are not.

Frontier chose to allow all players, in all modes, on all platforms, to engage in Powerplay - in that sense, it is working as intended.

 

[Derath]

Not sure if I explained it right, or you missed the point on purpose :S

I think you missed my point on purpose, that being that if you think that what is widely considered the greatest MMO created has the same amount of content as a beta space sim there really isn't any point in discussing it, but i'll try , I hate grind its awful I'm fully aware of how much garbage there is in your standard mmo I wouldn't even consider kill 10 wolves as content, its a deliberate block to send me round the world while i reach max level.

That is ED, It keeps all that monotonous grind you leave town to do, but without the raids/battlegrounds/crafting/dungeons/pvp that you actually do once you get there. Its all the leveling and none of the reason why you suffer that dirth of content. In the case of world of warcraft its all about the combining the efforts of 5, 10, 25 players to accomplish a goal, its dynamic, its never going to play out the same and the interactions between people give it meaning.

If i play Dota 2 I press QWER on every hero, yet i've never played two games that have been the same. Mechanics are not the same as content, and mechanics is what ED got right.

If it was unreal tournament it would be that I have 30 different maps on cycle and again every match plays different despite that I press the same buttons, for UT to be ED you'd have to remove the terrain and anything that goes with it, then remove all but 3 of the weapons, then have either players or bots run in straight lines between flags without deviating and receiving 100 credits every-time you capped.

I can't remember the last time anything in ED went unexpected for me :/ Its all extremely predictable and recycled - Having to steal military intelligence out of a CZ in lugh was the only thing they've put in so far that played in a different way to what was already there, and that was in a CG that only lasted 2 weeks!

 

[Mouse]

Its not about looking down, its frustration of people abusing a system.

If "OPEN" players are abusing the system then why are you so negative and disruptive to solo/private groups? If someone steals your hen you don't shoot the Burro because it watched it happen from it's paddock.

This is a thread about open vs solo.

Both part of the same community, though some want to disrupt that community.

If you choose to play only part of the game that is fine, but it shouldn't effect the players that want to play all of the game.

You are under a false impression. People playing Solo/group.. they are playing ALL the game as well.. the only ones playing part of the game are those who never get out of the training missions.

That effect could and has make it pointless for a lot of things in open.

Open is not pointless, if you feel that it is than you need to take a deep look at yourself.

Lets take power play as the case and point.

It is about one side trying to beat the other side(s).
This is done by taking something from A and dropping it at B or killing something in a system and then returning to turn in the credits.

This is competitive game play. Anyone who argues it isn't, is truly kidding themselves.

Well it is clear you are not sure what Powerplay is, because it isn't about one side "beating" another. There are multiple sides, each struggling for control. Some of their actions are overt some are covert. It is the same as things that are done even in real life.

But its all false because players can choose to play in Solo or Group, uncontested. Making any work the players in open to oppose it a farce.

Those that play in Solo or Group are not uncontested, that is false. The get interdicted and attacked just like in open. The only difference is no jerks. Sadly it means they may miss interaction with someone els, but they accepted that due to not having to deal with jerks anymore.

Its like playing a football match when you can only tackle half some of the players.

You do realize that in Football/NFL.. you can only tackle half some of the players. You can tackle those players on the opposing teams that are on the field and only at certain times..There are more rules to tackling in football than there are in Open in ED.

 

[Tuub t Tute]

Point lost due to bizarre censor engine :/

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

Its not about looking down, its frustration of people abusing a system.

…

Playing Solo or Group mode isn't abusing a system. It's intended game play. It's not a loop hole or some oversight from the developers, it's how the game is designed. The developers made the game intentionally that way. It's not just something that happens to be possible.

If I understand the PP mechanics right then PP is designed to be playable with everybody in Solo Mode as it is only an indirect competitive system.

Your problem is, that you want to counter PP mechanics with PvP that isn't part of the PP game design, but part of the overall game design. It could be argued that trying to stop someone form doing PP by PvP is abusing a system as the direct counter of PP actions are PvE PP actions. Since PvP is an intended part of Open Mode I won't call it abusing the system. You can do it in Open Mode with others who like to play the game that way. Fine, have fun. Others prefer to play solo or in a group and they can have their fun.

I think that ED is giving the players way to much influence on the galaxy. Players should only be a minor part of what influences the galaxy. Without the huge influence all this discussions about Open vs. Solo would simply stop and we could concentrate on how to get more players to enjoy Open Mode (or solo mode or group mode).

 

[Agony_Aunt]

That is ED, It keeps all that monotonous grind you leave town to do,

What grind? I haven't needed to do any grinding yet.

 

[Derath]

What grind? I haven't needed to do any grinding yet.

Good for you, we'll meet down the road when it has

 

[Mohrgan]

Its not about looking down, its frustration of people abusing a system.

This is a thread about open vs solo.

If you choose to play only part of the game that is fine, but it shouldn't effect the players that want to play all of the game.

That effect could and has make it pointless for a lot of things in open.

Lets take power play as the case and point.

It is about one side trying to beat the other side(s).
This is done by taking something from A and dropping it at B or killing something in a system and then returning to turn in the credits.

This is competitive game play. Anyone who argues it isn't, is truly kidding themselves.

But its all false because players can choose to play in Solo or Group, uncontested. Making any work the players in open to oppose it a farce.

Its like playing a football match when you can only tackle half some of the players.

It is frustration that drives you on this topic. The frustration stems from your need for everyone to follow your personal gamer ethics. PP has given actions required to meet certain goals. None of those actions require a one on one confrontation. That is the basis for the 'non-competitive' comment.

This whole debate originates from the idea that everyone should play the way you do. There has yet to be an answer to my question. Why should one players gamer ethics be enforced on any other player? One players desire for PvP has no bearing on any other player. Try and write a direct answer explaining why everyone should have to be subject to the play-style of a subset of the whole?

 

[Majinvash]

Competitive it may be but there is no requirement for that competition to be direct - if there were then Powerplay (and Community Goals) would be restricted to Open - which they are not.

Frontier chose to allow all players, in all modes, on all platforms, to engage in Powerplay - in that sense, it is working as intended.

This whole thread is about Open Vs Solo. It has been going on since the beginning and is clearly something that is causing is heated arguments on both sides.
Maybe its working as intended, doesn't mean its right.

There have been many changes that have been made for the improvement of the game.
They would have been added to the game as working as intended too.... It just so happened that what was intended needed changing.
Shield Cells for example..... They worked exactly as intended but were changed.

Solo effecting open is one of those things!
Bring able to grind in safety and then bring your spoils into open and then vanish again when it gets tough, is one of those things.

 

[Jockey79]

Its not about looking down, its frustration of people abusing a system.

This is a thread about open vs solo.

If you choose to play only part of the game that is fine, but it shouldn't effect the players that want to play all of the game.

That effect could and has make it pointless for a lot of things in open.

Lets take power play as the case and point.

It is about one side trying to beat the other side(s).
This is done by taking something from A and dropping it at B or killing something in a system and then returning to turn in the credits.

This is competitive game play. Anyone who argues it isn't, is truly kidding themselves.

But its all false because players can choose to play in Solo or Group, uncontested. Making any work the players in open to oppose it a farce.

Its like playing a football match when you can only tackle half some of the players.

There is only one game, and all of it is available in all modes. So people are not "playing part of the game", what they are doing is choosing who they play the full game with.
Also, that is not abusing the game - this is how the developers intended it - read post three in the thread on the first page.

All efforts and counters are built in to the system for Power Play, it is not based on PvP. How you cannot see this simple fact is beyond me.
It has been explained several times, ED is a game that allows PvP - it is not a PvP game. PP supports this, as you have to fortify and undermine and it can be done in any mode.

It's nothing like football. No idea where you get that from. Football is a direct confrontational sport - PP was designed with Solo and groups in mind, so no direct confrontation is involved.

 

[SteveLaw]

Solo effecting open is one of those things!
Bring able to grind in safety and then bring your spoils into open and then vanish again when it gets tough, is one of those things.

Why do they need changing? Because some players think they do. When Frontier think they need changing, they will change them. They still believe that all of those things are perfectly okay.

 

[ianw]

This whole thread is about Open Vs Solo. It has been going on since the beginning and is clearly something that is causing is heated arguments on both sides.
Maybe its working as intended, doesn't mean its right.

There have been many changes that have been made for the improvement of the game.
They would have been added to the game as working as intended too.... It just so happened that what was intended needed changing.
Shield Cells for example..... They worked exactly as intended but were changed.

Solo effecting open is one of those things!
Bring able to grind in safety and then bring your spoils into open and then vanish again when it gets tough, is one of those things.

Avoiding trouble in open whilst trading (which is what I did to get the Anaconda) is functionally exactly the same as doing it in solo.

Being unable to "tackle" players in solo or private group is fucntionally the same as being unable to "tackle" anyone not in your instance which at any given moment is probably 99% of the other people playing seeing as you'll probably only see 9 others and 3 of those will probably be in your wing.

Even if you got what you're demanding it would make almost zero difference to your perceived problem.

 

[Majinvash]

There is only one game, and all of it is available in all modes. So people are not "playing part of the game", what they are doing is choosing who they play the full game with.
Also, that is not abusing the game - this is how the developers intended it - read post three in the thread on the first page.

All efforts and counters are built in to the system for Power Play, it is not based on PvP. How you cannot see this simple fact is beyond me.
It has been explained several times, ED is a game that allows PvP - it is not a PvP game. PP supports this, as you have to fortify and undermine and it can be done in any mode.

It's nothing like football. No idea where you get that from. Football is a direct confrontational sport - PP was designed with Solo and groups in mind, so no direct confrontation is involved.

How are you not seeing this??

How??

To undermine or fortify an area to win it. You have to do a task.

You do this task to progress or stop or do something positive for the part of the game you are playing.

Others are trying to do the opposite. If they weren't, powerplay would be a one horse race and you could only be able to join one faction.
You are literally Playing for Power.

One of the ways the people who are opposing your faction should be able to prevent this from happening, is by stopping you completing task X. ( OTHER than having to grind in the other direction. )

They cannot do that, if they cannot see you because you are hiding in solo.

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean its not what should be happening.
If you don't think we should have the right to stop you doing something that is detrimental to our goal because it hurts your feelys when you get killed trying to do it, then solo is your option.
But you cannot have both, the ability to work against us ( which you are doing ) and play in safe mode.

It should be one or the other, it currently isn't.. Which is why this thread is 496 pages long.

When I say football I mean soccer, the game where you kick the ball with your foot for the majority of the game.

 

[PavelKCZ]

Its not about looking down, its frustration of people abusing a system.

This is a thread about open vs solo.

If you choose to play only part of the game that is fine, but it shouldn't effect the players that want to play all of the game.

That effect could and has make it pointless for a lot of things in open.

Lets take power play as the case and point.

It is about one side trying to beat the other side(s).
This is done by taking something from A and dropping it at B or killing something in a system and then returning to turn in the credits.

This is competitive game play. Anyone who argues it isn't, is truly kidding themselves.

But its all false because players can choose to play in Solo or Group, uncontested. Making any work the players in open to oppose it a farce.

It seems that you did not understand the PP at all. It is competitive play, but by design the competition is indirect, through actions like fortification and undermining. It is purposely designed this way, because this way PP can be played even if all players are in Solo/Group and can be played even if (theoretically) FD will make the whole game PvE only (for example if it is not possible to kill player by another player in Open).

 

[Jockey79]

....
They cannot do that, if they cannot see you because you are hiding in solo. .....

I can fly around in open and you still won't see me - so how does me being in open help you?

This is the part you want to ignore, even if people were in open, the P2P nature of the game stops lots of people seeing other people.
The modes are the least of your problems.

 

[Majinvash]

I can fly around in open and you still won't see me - so how does me being in open help you?

This is the part you want to ignore, even if people were in open, the P2P nature of the game stops lots of people seeing other people.
The modes are the least of your problems.

I have made my feelings about instancing very clear in another thread.

But this isn't about instancing, please stay on topic.

 

[PavelKCZ]

BTW, this thread will soon have 500 pages. Quite funny how much time and effort was put into totally pointless discussion aout one game aspect which will never be changed by FD, because of the basic game design.

BTW, the Xbox gamers and PS4 gamers (much larger community than PC/Mac players) will play the same Galaxy and same Power play and no one will be able to see them, not even in Open.