More flipping waiting?...They really should have called it Elite: Soon..........
Jettison (abandon) shouldn't exist
- Thread starter Malkevin
- Start date
More flipping waiting?...They really should have called it Elite: Soon..........
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
It would be not unreasonable to put in a cooling off period before players were to join a Wing with another player who had fired on them - it would reduce the opportunities for coercion....
I agree. Pirates shouldn't be able to get legal cargo from a victim.
The option of abandon cargo for pirates is simply wrong. Pirates already make a profit per tonne traders can only dream off on the blackmarket. Being able to force traders to abandon cargo additionally adds insult to injury. Just an other way to force their will onto others.
In addition it removes the risk for the pirate to get caught with the illicit cargo. So it's trying to get "easy-mode" piracy. It's Elite Dangerous and not Elite easy-mode piracy
It should be possible to transfer legal cargo in a station to an other player or if that is to difficult to implement, only allowed to abandon cargo close to a space station (in the same instance, up to 2km outside the no fire zone - something like that).
Sure, piracy is risky for a pirate in a Clipper who pirates a trader in a T-6. If the pirate risks getting blow up he probably won't get any cargo from that target and he has chosen the wrong victim. The pirate gets a much better profit on the blackmarket than any trader gets on the legal market. The pirate doesn't have to pay for the wares - Getting 4500 cr/t for 1 tonne is much more than any trader will get for 1 t of beryllium (for example).
It's not a negotiation if one side is holding a gun to your head. The pirate can't force the trader to do something, but the trader might have only the choice between self-destruction and getting killed. If the trader doesn't want to lose the ship the pirate can force the trader to do something - that's the only reason piracy works in ED.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
If the pirate simply destroys the ship then they get nothing at all - no cargo is dropped on ship destruction (presumably to stop players simply going for the kill with a guaranteed cargo drop).
It's not a negotiation that the player has entered into willingly, true. However, I would like to hope (possibly in vain) that at least some element of negotiation exists.
I'll play a tiny Devil's Advocate. Like a wee imp. If you jettison cargo, then watch for the white dots to appear and immediately boost roughly in the direction of the pirate, then he has a choice between checking out the cargo, or chasing you down. It takes a couple of seconds to target and check the canisters. By that time, I'm on my Hyperspace countdown, Silent Running and basically praying. Like an imp. If the pirate sees "Stolen" and tries to chase, you're 2km away and moving in the other direction with 5 seconds until you're gone for good. So it's a tactical, fast thinking game for both parties. And it's GREAT fun if played out properly.
Here's an idea.
Any cargo dropped in an instance where the interdicted player/target drops loot for ANY REASON is flagged as stolen.
Any cargo dropped in an instance where the interdicted player/target drops loot for ANY REASON is flagged as stolen.
While I agree in principle with what you are saying, your assertion that piracy in ED is easy or profitable is just silly.I agree. Pirates shouldn't be able to get legal cargo from a victim.
The option of abandon cargo for pirates is simply wrong. Pirates already make a profit per tonne traders can only dream off on the blackmarket. Being able to force traders to abandon cargo additionally adds insult to injury. Just an other way to force their will onto others.
In addition it removes the risk for the pirate to get caught with the illicit cargo. So it's trying to get "easy-mode" piracy. It's Elite Dangerous and not Elite easy-mode piracy
Seems the obvious route. If you're interdicted the abandon option is not available.
I am ok with it as it allows players to exchange goods. Now on the other hand I think the goods should be revealed as "legal" only after a scan. In other words, a trader has time to drop them and escape while the pirate is scanning them.
An alternative is a timer, whereby the trader as few minutes to report the goods as stolen after dropping them. The pirate think the goods are clear to sell, and then realize they actually show as stolen.
An alternative is a timer, whereby the trader as few minutes to report the goods as stolen after dropping them. The pirate think the goods are clear to sell, and then realize they actually show as stolen.
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It's not a negotiation. The pirate threatens the victim with death. All the trader can do is beg for his life and do everything the pirate wants. Begging is not negotiating.
The only good thing is that - this being a game - the trader can just say @§$%! and self-destruct or fight and get killed. Knowing that the pirate will get nothing and maybe, just maybe have to pay a little for repairs and wasted ammo.
Nope, sorry mate. A negotiation involves at least some bargaining power and the wish to find a mutually advantageous situation. A pirate asking "cargo or death" is not negotiating: he is the only one with bargaining power and is looking for his own and sole advantage.
And then they just hold a player under gunpoint until they have scanned the cargo, get them to jettison MORE cargo until happy or victim is dead.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
There's no requirement on the trader to demean themselves in front of the pirate - as you say other options are available....
Cake or death? Sorry, we are all out of cake. So it's death or...death then?
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Indeed....
I've had many traders who would rather die then give me one ton of cargo. Both players have something the other wants it's very much a negotiation. You might not like what happens if you walk away from the table, but it's still a negotiation.
I agree with the OP. Right now the "jettison" (without "abandon") option is more or less useless, since every pirate will demand you abandon your cargo. The only variability could come from a pirates reaction to traders not complying to their demand and instead jettisoning "stolen" cargo. Some may blow you up, some my accept the compromise, but that's about it.
I think if a pirate steals stuff from me, he should deal with the fact that the stuff is indeed being marked as "stolen".
What you describe is rather a flaw in the value system (selling stolen stuff yielding to little profit) and not of the "jettison" mechanic.
I think if a pirate steals stuff from me, he should deal with the fact that the stuff is indeed being marked as "stolen".
What you describe is rather a flaw in the value system (selling stolen stuff yielding to little profit) and not of the "jettison" mechanic.
That's assuming you are in a faster ship, the pirate isn't in a wing, the pirate isn't ready to shoot the moment you move. Somehow I think it won't work.
The profit per hour is low, the profit per tonne is much higher than anything a trader will ever see. Selling legal cargo is completely risk free, selling illicit cargo has the tiny chance to get caught and to get the option to pay for it. So demanding legal cargo is reducing the risk and increasing the profit.
Just give an option to pirates to launder stolen commodities in specific worlds. For a fee, they become again 'legal' commodities, and can be traded again.
Of course, Bounty hunters would keep an special eye about in-and-out traffic on those worlds... The pirate can always sell it on any black market if he don't want to experience what a merchant feels when he sees a hollow triangle in the radar...
Of course, Bounty hunters would keep an special eye about in-and-out traffic on those worlds... The pirate can always sell it on any black market if he don't want to experience what a merchant feels when he sees a hollow triangle in the radar...