All fights against AI = afterburn + FA off turning

Cidcaldensfey

Cidcaldensfey
This is all the AI does. It doesn't do anything but prolong the fights. Fly, afterburn, FA off turn, shoot, fly, afterubrn, FA off turn, shoot, fly, afterburn, FA off turn, shoot.

Thats all it does. Fights which should end in 30secs-1min turn into 10min snoozefests. Seriously, fly, afterburn, FA off turn, shoot. Is this really what you consider to be hard AI? Theres nothing to it, its just boring. Whats the point of playing if something which should last 30 seconds ends up taking 10 minutes? I'm going to blow up the other ships regardless of what happens, why have the AI drag the fight out?

Do you actually enjoy this/have fun with it? I don't even why I bother with this anymore. Its like the game purposely trying to be as boring as hell.
 
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KaizoMK

KaizoMK
Cidcaldensfey said:
This all the AI does. It doesn't do anything but prolong the fights. Fly, afterburn, FA off turn, shoot, fly, afterubrn, FA off turn, shoot, fly, afterburn, FA off turn, shoot.

Thats all it does. Fights which should end in 30secs-1min turn into 10min snoozefests. Seriously, fly, afterburn, FA off turn, shoot. Is this really what you consider to be hard AI? Theres nothing to it, its just boring. Whats the point of playing if something which should last 30 seconds ends up taking 10 minutes? I'm going to blow up the other ships regardless of what happens, why have the AI drag the fight out?

Do you actually enjoy this/have fun with it?
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Seems like a legitimate tactic to me. It's annoying but I welcome the change. If you're slow enough they'll actually be a that. If you're fast no issue....you might need to manage your power more now.

Try jousting with them instead, or using turrets. Adapt.
 
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TruffleSnout

T
I only see Vipers doing that. Eagles (and Cobra's - though perhaps they shouldn't) try to out-turn me. DB Scouts do a combo of both. Sideys never survive long enough to implement any tactics.

Have only been back in the bubble for a few days, so I haven't seen anything bigger.
 

Cidcaldensfey

Cidcaldensfey
I don't think you understand, it's not hard or am I having problems succeeding. The problem is that its still extremely easy but it simply takes -way- longer than it should. It does nothing but drag out a fight where I've inevitably already won. Really. Thats it. There is no adapting requiring considering I'm doing just fine. I don't think you really understand the point I'm making. Seriously, I was in an Eagle during the month of the release/the month after taking out master/elite Vipers and Cobras just fine. Now, I'm still winning with a Viper but the changes to the AI just ended up making fights last even longer.

I can check my work phone for emails/reply to emails while keeping the other hand on the joystick, only because the fights are -that- slow. Besides,, if you -really- want to know the secret to winning, its not jousting or some other stupid bull tactic, its simply flying in reverse. Oh ho, so much tactics, so much strategy!

I just don't feel like flying in reverse.

TruffleSnout said:
I only see Vipers doing that. Eagles (and Cobra's - though perhaps they shouldn't) try to out-turn me. DB Scouts do a combo of both. Sideys never survive long enough to implement any tactics.

Have only been back in the bubble for a few days, so I haven't seen anything bigger.
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Everything does this. Even the Cobra I was just now fighting does it. It does it even though it cannot actually turn to bring its guns to fire since I can out turn it. Thats how broken it is. Its so ineffective that even the AI screws itself over by trying to do it.
 
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Neflite

Neflite
I must say I agree.

There is all this talk about the AI being harder, but the only change I noticed is that it is more slippery.

It actually seems to me like they lost a lot of firepower due to it, like they are always in full evasion mode, never really doing a full frontal assault.

It might be just anecdotal evidence, but if the AI is never going to be able to kill me then I would atleast like the fight to be less annoying.


However, if this is just a first step in a process that leads to NPC ships being able to both evade and attack properly I welcome it.
 

Aerodeon

Aerodeon
It's probably thinking that if it stays alive long enough, someone might come to help. Pretty realistic, I think.

A lot of aerial combat in real life was and is like that once the two planes are close together. If someone's behind you, turn, and just keep turning until someone helps, or the guy behind you makes a mistake. There's no magic manoeuvre like in the movies that will shake someone off and make them go past you ready for your shot.

You're right though. This isn't real life, and if each fight is a constant impotent turning battle, it gets boring very quickly.
 

Ian Skippy

Ian Skippy
Cidcaldensfey said:
I don't think you understand, it's not hard or am I having problems succeeding. The problem is that its still extremely easy but it simply takes -way- longer than it should. It does nothing but drag out a fight where I've inevitably already won. Really. Thats it. There is no adapting requiring considering I'm doing just fine. I don't think you really understand the point I'm making. Seriously, I was in an Eagle during the month of the release/the month after taking out master/elite Vipers and Cobras just fine. Now, I'm still winning with a Viper but the changes to the AI just ended up making fights last even longer.

I can check my work phone for emails/reply to emails while keeping the other hand on the joystick, only because the fights are -that- slow. Besides,, if you -really- want to know the secret to winning, its not jousting or some other stupid bull tactic, its simply flying in reverse. Oh ho, so much tactics, so much strategy!

I just don't feel like flying in reverse.


Everything does this. Even the Cobra I was just now fighting does it. It does it even though it cannot actually turn to bring its guns to fire since I can out turn it. Thats how broken it is. Its so ineffective that even the AI screws itself over by trying to do it.
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Eh, so you are complaining that fights take too long while you're typing emails? Fights should not take you 10 minutes, and if they do you might want to re-evaluate what you're doing.
 

Cidcaldensfey

Cidcaldensfey
sleutelbos said:
Eh, so you are complaining that fights take too long while you're typing emails? Fights should not take you 10 minutes, and if they do you might want to re-evaluate what you're doing.
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Then show me how to do it since you apparently know how to not take so long. Please, by all means, do it. Prove me wrong. Destroy at least a Harmless Cobra while using a Viper, only gimbled lasers and/or gimbled multicannons. Show me you can do it in less than 5-minutes, or 10-minutes. If you need a program to record yourself, download and use OpenBroadcaster. It's free and works perfectly. Upload it to Youtube and show everyone here you can do it. I'd rather just learn than complain, so please, show us.
 
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Mike Evans

Designer- Elite: Dangerous
Frontier
Privata said:
Is that a bug? please tell me its a bug... and when is the AI patch going to go live ?
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Not a bug, they don't need it tbh, they have ample control over the lateral and vertical thrusters anyway so they can achieve whatever manoeuvre they need to fight effectively without FAOff.
 

DirkLarien

DirkLarien
well thing is it is effective.
....
Perhaps adding bit of human error simulation. But that would be considered as poor AI by others...

I think it is not about AI at all. I find it actually fun and challenging.
What is lacking is the environment.
In space there is not much to work with :)
where it could be more interesting is:

Asteroids - but they are fairly far from each other and are of same size. That makes them bit predictable. That does not help too much.
Stations - out of question since we have this no fire zone...
Big ships - well they are only at some places. And usually just in few numbers. To get more hectic filled space where you need maneuvering it would have
to be fleets/convoys of em not just two.
Surfaces - we are not there yet..... i doubt anytime soon.

Nebulae with asteroids - now that could work .... place where sensors are really messed up :)

We just need to look at any mission in games like freespace 1/2, starlancer and so on.....
;-)
 
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Cmdr Eagleboy

Cmdr Eagleboy
Mike Evans said:
AI are not capable of using flight assist off as far as I'm aware by the way.
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I would check that with Sarah, she have said in recent past that higher rank AI use FA Off a bit. That might be just lateral and vertical thrusters however (which is more than enough to make player's life miserable for short bursts).
 

Mike Evans

Designer- Elite: Dangerous
Frontier
Epicthetrumble said:
Sarah Jane Avory's comments indicate otherwise. I'm pretty sure she's mentioned that AI do use FA/off, and their flight behaviour does seem to corroborate this, in my experience at least.
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Well I literally just asked her and she said no they don't as they don't need too. As a said they use lateral and vertical thrusters instead very effectively.
 
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