Jettison (abandon) shouldn't exist

There has to be a better way around these issues.

Combat logging could be eradicated by the ship remaining for a reasonable period after 'logging off'. How many cases are genuine technical failure versus cheating?
In the genuine cases there could be an 'appeals' procedure.

Stolen versus abandoned should simply be made to go away by removing the option. If 'stolen' goods are not profitable then that's a cause for game balancing not condoning an exploit.

The 20 tonne limit should go. If a pilot stops heavy trader full of palladium then he's hit payday and should get the reward. Limiting his booty is a poor response to dealing with muppets cargo dumping in stations. Surely the 'jettison' cargo feature could be disabled inside the NFZ. Or some other more sensible and relevant measure.
 
Of course - all part of the game - except there's no profit in a ship that explodes taking all of its cargo with it.... ;)

Unfortunately that's the only leverage a pirate has. Hopefully the next time that trader will know that dropping cargo as opposed to dying is a better option if they meet the pirate again :)
 
There's no way to tell the difference (unless they let you leave afterwards)....

That's true as well but generally random player killers don't say anything and start shooting.

Due to the lack of game mechanics to support an advertised profession we do the best we can with what we have.

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.... and presumably record it and post it online - for the lulz.... Really admirable behaviour.... :rolleyes:

It's true emergent gameplay and a lot of fun for both parties from what I hear. The most famous recently was a player on dayz who actually dug out a guitar and made his kidnappers dance along with him :)
 
There has to be a better way around these issues.

Combat logging could be eradicated by the ship remaining for a reasonable period after 'logging off'. How many cases are genuine technical failure versus cheating?
In the genuine cases there could be an 'appeals' procedure.

Stolen versus abandoned should simply be made to go away by removing the option. If 'stolen' goods are not profitable then that's a cause for game balancing not condoning an exploit.

The 20 tonne limit should go. If a pilot stops heavy trader full of palladium then he's hit payday and should get the reward. Limiting his booty is a poor response to dealing with muppets cargo dumping in stations. Surely the 'jettison' cargo feature could be disabled inside the NFZ. Or some other more sensible and relevant measure.
So far as I have seen - and I haven't played for a while, so I'm going on what has been said here already - the 20T limit is now 100T in deep space, so should be enough for reasonable pirates to work with.
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As a trader, I like the idea of 'Stolen' versus 'clean' drops. Pirate enhances my experience, or we negotiate from [as per the previous example] 30T 'Stolen' cargo to 20T 'Clean' cargo, I don't care. If it's for enhancing my experience of the game, they deserve it. If we negotiate, then I'm 10T better off and why does it matter to me if what they've got is considered 'Stolen' or not? I probably won't see that pirate again anyway.
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As to combat logging, I have already said it's not something I consider acceptable. Cases of technical failure versus cheating, I don't know, but I have had a single case of network failure during an encounter with another player. Nothing I can do or say will probably change their mind that I combat logged, but I do have a history of either running or fighting futilely when encountering players that demand too high a price. I am not scared of an insurance re-buy to increase the bounty on some idiot that thinks I am purely playing the game for their pleasure - I just wish the bounties scaled a bit more with the ship cost. Make other players - mainly gankers and psychopaths - think a bit more before giving someone else a multiple MCr re-buy if it increased their bounty by a reasonable % of that cost.
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And why wouldn't that be a logical consequence. Insurance company has to stump up 95% of the cost of my T7, they're gonna want to get their money back some how, or protect the investment they have just made in my new ship. They don't want me to go out and get it destroyed in 5 minutes by the same guy or they'll wind up paying another 95%. Makes sense to have bounties scale based not just on the infraction, but on cost of infraction too.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
That's true as well but generally random player killers don't say anything and start shooting.

Due to the lack of game mechanics to support an advertised profession we do the best we can with what we have.

Indeed.

.... and some role-play the role rather well or at least clearly communicate their demands, are open to at least a little negotiation and stick to their word when the trader attempts to leave. Others don't - and the reputation of all are tarnished by that.

It's true emergent gameplay and a lot of fun for both parties from what I hear. The most famous recently was a player on dayz who actually dug out a guitar and made his kidnappers dance along with him :)

Is it gameplay or is it a form of teasing / bullying? I doubt that it is "fun" for both parties all of the time. Kudos to the guitarist making the extortionists dance to his tune though....
 
I just wish the bounties scaled a bit more with the ship cost. Make other players - mainly gankers and psychopaths - think a bit more before giving someone else a multiple MCr re-buy if it increased their bounty by a reasonable % of that cost.
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And why wouldn't that be a logical consequence. Insurance company has to stump up 95% of the cost of my T7, they're gonna want to get their money back some how, or protect the investment they have just made in my new ship. They don't want me to go out and get it destroyed in 5 minutes by the same guy or they'll wind up paying another 95%. Makes sense to have bounties scale based not just on the infraction, but on cost of infraction too.

This has always been a big thing for me even as a pirate. If I kill a T9 player and end up with a 6k bounty where as the trader has a 13mil buy back then something is flawed. The current bounty system makes life harder for the odd friendly fire incident or starting player and encourages pking with the low bounty. It should scale with kills at the least.
 
That's true as well but generally random player killers don't say anything and start shooting.

Due to the lack of game mechanics to support an advertised profession we do the best we can with what we have.
And although I have not met you ingame, from what you have said on this forum previously you do a good job. Shame more aren't like you, it would improve the game in my opinion.
 
Indeed.

.... and some role-play the role rather well or at least clearly communicate their demands, are open to at least a little negotiation and stick to their word when the trader attempts to leave. Others don't - and the reputation of all are tarnished by that.

Is it gameplay or is it a form of teasing / bullying? I doubt that it is "fun" for both parties all of the time. Kudos to the guitarist making the extortionists dance to his tune though....

The same can be said for many professions. The most vocal seem to be the bounty hunters stealing npc kills from each other and has put more people on edge than random piracy.

It is a form of bullying in a way but that's what piracy is under the current game mechanics and by definition. I would only call it true bullying or griefing if it was the same players going after the same players constantly. The same can be said with any hostile pvp encounters though. As open is the only place where this is acceptable (by the current game mechanics) going there is consent to it's chances of happening to you. As we both know the only way to opt out of that kind of behaviour is by going to solo or group.

I personally think high/low security space, higher bounties and a more aggressive police force in high security systems is the best way to allow the maximum amount of play sytles to exist in open. This would need to be tied in to the economy to make piracy viable in anarchy systems and give players a reason to go there.
 
If your prey is fleeing why not shoot their engines out?

Most traders are either flying unshielded or flying an egg shell to maximise cargo space
 
Unfortunately that's the only leverage a pirate has. Hopefully the next time that trader will know that dropping cargo as opposed to dying is a better option if they meet the pirate again :)
And unfortunately, as a trader, encounters with pirates are rare enough in open that I can afford to make an unreasonable pirate destroy me, and work from there. If I get hit enough times in a short space of time, I may leave the game for a bit to allow them to get bored and move away, or else I'll switch to solo and move (empty) to a different area where I will hit open again.
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But that's only because as yet I have never been hit by a reasonable one. I always now submit as soon as possible [no point doing othrewise in a T7] and so if my first comms is "Drop or Die" I'm out of there. Chase me and destroy me, or let me go. If I get a scan, I'll probably wait - unless I get commed that makes me think otherwise - and IF I am not asked formost of my cargo, I'll talk. Ask for more than you will let me keep, and we are back into "Drop or Die" territory again. Ask for a small enough amount and I'll automatically abandon as I am all for reasonable pirates in the game. It's just a shame that they are not able to ply that profession as originally declared.
 
And unfortunately, as a trader, encounters with pirates are rare enough in open that I can afford to make an unreasonable pirate destroy me, and work from there. If I get hit enough times in a short space of time, I may leave the game for a bit to allow them to get bored and move away, or else I'll switch to solo and move (empty) to a different area where I will hit open again.
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But that's only because as yet I have never been hit by a reasonable one. I always now submit as soon as possible [no point doing othrewise in a T7] and so if my first comms is "Drop or Die" I'm out of there. Chase me and destroy me, or let me go. If I get a scan, I'll probably wait - unless I get commed that makes me think otherwise - and IF I am not asked formost of my cargo, I'll talk. Ask for more than you will let me keep, and we are back into "Drop or Die" territory again. Ask for a small enough amount and I'll automatically abandon as I am all for reasonable pirates in the game. It's just a shame that they are not able to ply that profession as originally declared.

Personally I traded up to an anaconda in open in about 3-400 hours and didn't encounter much piracy myself but I used that to my advantage when pirating traders as I know the routes and know what's acceptable to ask for. I also will only pirate the same player once per play session if they drop. Not all are like me but a lot are.

If you see from my video it does happen fast and any ship movement from a trader will cause me to shoot first. I think I have an advantage in the way I have my binds set up clearly explaining what's going to happen.

I'm in no way trying to take your negative experiences away from you or condoning the behaviour of other pirates but after you've been pirating for a while your tolerance for traders does go way down. One of the last times I was pirated I played for 3 hours and had 4 different players combat log on me and 2 of them pulled the "how do I drop cargo?" trick (combat logged or quit via menu whilst I was typing to tell them how to drop cargo). Once you've had a few days of that you do lose sympathy and go for the more "drop or die" approach.

The other thing to remember is that not everyone speaks English, both pirates and traders alike. So whilst my "stop and submit to a cargo scan. any attempt to run or draw weapons will be met with death" bind as an English speaker would turn in to "stop or die" from a non speaker.
 
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This has always been a big thing for me even as a pirate. If I kill a T9 player and end up with a 6k bounty where as the trader has a 13mil buy back then something is flawed. The current bounty system makes life harder for the odd friendly fire incident or starting player and encourages pking with the low bounty. It should scale with kills at the least.

I'm not sure if bounties should scale with the size of the ship killed but I definitely think they should scale with the size of the ship flown

6k is a half decent amount to hunt down an eagle, a clipper... not so much
 
During the era of sail and SoTL (ships of the line) - e.g. Wet navy piracy - it was extremely hard for a more heavily armed ship to close on a trade ship.

Why should being a criminal be profitable? The vast majority of criminals dont make profits...the small minority make vast profits but the majority make very little. Why would that be different in the 33rd century?

Because "criminal" is a role to play in this game, that's why. Don't look at it from a legal citizen's perspective inside the universe, and view it as part of the ecosystem of players that play Elite. It's the same as "bounty hunter" and "trader"; it should have decent avenues of success for a player who puts in the time and effort to get good at said role. Currently it's not really worth the effort by comparison to every other role. Even mining has gotten marginally more lucrative.

Ofc, I believe FD themselves look at crime in their game from this goodygood perspective, which is why the crime game elements are so piteous or simply non-existent. We don't have real black markets; we don't have believable authority responses on a number of fronts. There's barely even a skeleton of crime to add things to. It's why small issues get so heated, because there's not much of the game existing there in the first place so the little stuff gets sweated waaay harder than it should.
 
I'm not sure if bounties should scale with the size of the ship killed but I definitely think they should scale with the size of the ship flown

6k is a half decent amount to hunt down an eagle, a clipper... not so much

I mean they should scale per kill at least. If you kill one ship 6k 2 ships next bounty is is 12k etc. A bit simplified but you get my meaning.

To gain the same amount of bounty that the trader lost if I killed a T9 with a 13mil buy back (inc cargo) I'd have to kill 2166 ships under the current system.
 
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