I decided to be a pirate, so i bought a cobra and to be honest it has been a very hard road. The thing that bothers me the most is that the npc traders never stop fighting back, even when their hull is at 5 percent. The only method that seems to work is shooting out the thrusters. Does anyone else have this problem? Is the game intended to be this way. I've found no other posts on this topic, maybe they do exist but I haven't seen them. My question is this. How do you get a trader to drop his cargo and run off without having to shoot his thrusters? Thanks for the responses in advance.
piracy and not killing traders
- Thread starter sibullski
- Start date
.
You basically want something for nothing. Why should any commander, yep even a NPC one, give you their hard earned cargo because you asked for it? Seriously, if you want to play pirate get use to being attacked back. I like the way the NPCs react (well done to the Mistress of the Minions - SJA), it is how 95% of the Commanders would react too. I can understand why players try the Pirate route, hopefully it would be for immersion and for the thrill of the chase, I certainly hope it isn't to make easy credits at the expense of everyone else.
You can't, npcs don't behave logically. They'll stay there shooting at you with a pea shooter, while you're in an armored battletank. The best you can hope for is to tank their damage while scooping.
Occasionally an npc will jump away and drop ~8 tons, but that is very much random.
One of the many, many reasons it's better to steal from actual players and not npcs.
Occasionally an npc will jump away and drop ~8 tons, but that is very much random.
One of the many, many reasons it's better to steal from actual players and not npcs.
Last edited:
Just be glad they don't combat log on you... trust me... you'll begin to love NPCs if you look at it like that...
If you want to make coin, go NPC hunting in a RES or CZ. Pirating is more of a PvP thing. It's not done for money generation. It's done for the excitement generated by the unknown variable that are humans. Will they run? Will they fight? Will they debate my moral choices?
And with PvP, it can also be one of the most frustrating aspects of the game. A certain percentage of those that fight will combat log. So, even when you do everything right, you still get no reward. One of the best tutorials I've seen on the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-Ymz6hc3Xc
BTW, if you PP, I believe the correct term would be Privateer.
Here's my post on piracy and smuggling. I talk about this under piracy #2. I forgot to mention that NPCs should run away.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=165544
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=165544
Piracy isn't so good and needs an update. I suggest building a pirate fleet until it arrives.
To answer OP question, I kill NPCs because they fight to the death.
Piracy is practically dead now. Nobody seems to play in open anymore. 12,000 players online playing in Steam today and after two hours I only ran into five players total after I jumped through something like fifty to a hundred systems.
You're obviously going to the wrong systems. Lots of people in Open.
Sheesh well then where are they at aside from the obvious such as Eravate, LHS and the other noob places?
PP systems. I hear Harma is busy.
A lot of people seem to be missing the point. It is not that NPCs fight back, of course they should, but when you have used a limpet to get their cargo and they are on 5% hull, all you want to do is scoop their cargo, not kill them but instead of running (which and sane PC would do at 5% hull) they keep attacking, forcing you to kill them. Not too bright really.
Yup, some logic needs to be applied.
While we as CMDR's are "immortal" due to a simple insurance a simulation of a living universe should add some kind of logic to NPC's
-Not everyone should WANT to fight to the death
-Wanted NPC's could try to bribe you
-Traders would ALSO try to deal with you (honestly, would a Type9 even TRY running from a well armed Anaconda or Python?)
-Traders in smaller craft might run but plead/deal when damaged (50% or more)
-Combat traders (Might give up after 75% damage)
-Smugglers (Run, or run and dump cargo)
Also, piracy needs better tools AND punishment so that one CAN make a good living as a pirate but ALSO actually feel wanted and hiding in anarchy pirate ports and the ability to disable ships WITHOUT killing them or at least disable their ability to flee once interdicted in smaller trade ships.
While we as CMDR's are "immortal" due to a simple insurance a simulation of a living universe should add some kind of logic to NPC's
-Not everyone should WANT to fight to the death
-Wanted NPC's could try to bribe you
-Traders would ALSO try to deal with you (honestly, would a Type9 even TRY running from a well armed Anaconda or Python?)
-Traders in smaller craft might run but plead/deal when damaged (50% or more)
-Combat traders (Might give up after 75% damage)
-Smugglers (Run, or run and dump cargo)
Also, piracy needs better tools AND punishment so that one CAN make a good living as a pirate but ALSO actually feel wanted and hiding in anarchy pirate ports and the ability to disable ships WITHOUT killing them or at least disable their ability to flee once interdicted in smaller trade ships.
Because if they don't, they'll be killed.
Certainly, they should try desperately to get away, but if and when it becomes obvious that they can't escape, there should be a very high chance that they'll capitulate. That's how piracy works in the real world, after all; the victims try to get away, and if they can't, they generally give up and give the pirates what they want because people generally don't want to die and are willing to give up property to avoid it if they must. Even in the case of player commanders, it's probably the case that the cost of the cargo is less than the cost of insurance.
'Stand and deliver, your money or your life!' ends up with the victim choosing money most of the time for a reason. Except in E: D, where everybody is suicidal and desperately wants the pirates to put them out of their misery...
Last edited:
Majinvash
Banned
There is a huge problem in ED that all traders are greedy and feel that their chosen trade should be safe or completely in their control.
That is just not how piracy works. ( Lets ignore player killers for now )
You interdict
You make your demand
They choose the outcome
What usually happens is
You interdict
You make your demand
They try and boost away and get salty when they get shot down
The number of traders I have seen running shield-less is also very high.
If you are carrying valuables, you should be able to either defend yourself or take enough damage to get away.
The T6 is fairly fast with an A class booster but most don't seem to fit them.
The T7 is just a terrible ship all-round, not huge storage, slow and weak.
The T9 huge storage but they usually scrimp with cheap shields and no shield cells.
A smart trader would run a trade load-out clipper, python or anaconda.
I love greedy traders, they paid for most of what I have no now.
But they should understand how they fit in the OPEN version of ED and I commend them for playing it.
I have traded, I got pirated, I dropped cargo, I carried on.
The biggest issue is that there is no real incentive for support fighters to spend the long time it takes to support traders properly which is why pirating is fairly riskfree at the moment.
Also with the terrible changes to wanted status and bounties, the player Bounty Hunters aren't really an issue because.. well there aren't really many left who want to risk their ship for the tiny payouts.
I have been pirating and killing for weeks and most systems my bounty is around 300k .. Which is tiny.
When it was done by Alliance, Empire, Federation, I would have had a combined one in the millions.
Only targets in the millions are worth risking your ship for.
So currently Traders are a low risk, high reward option for player pirates.
Majinvash
That is just not how piracy works. ( Lets ignore player killers for now )
You interdict
You make your demand
They choose the outcome
What usually happens is
You interdict
You make your demand
They try and boost away and get salty when they get shot down
The number of traders I have seen running shield-less is also very high.
If you are carrying valuables, you should be able to either defend yourself or take enough damage to get away.
The T6 is fairly fast with an A class booster but most don't seem to fit them.
The T7 is just a terrible ship all-round, not huge storage, slow and weak.
The T9 huge storage but they usually scrimp with cheap shields and no shield cells.
A smart trader would run a trade load-out clipper, python or anaconda.
I love greedy traders, they paid for most of what I have no now.
But they should understand how they fit in the OPEN version of ED and I commend them for playing it.
I have traded, I got pirated, I dropped cargo, I carried on.
The biggest issue is that there is no real incentive for support fighters to spend the long time it takes to support traders properly which is why pirating is fairly riskfree at the moment.
Also with the terrible changes to wanted status and bounties, the player Bounty Hunters aren't really an issue because.. well there aren't really many left who want to risk their ship for the tiny payouts.
I have been pirating and killing for weeks and most systems my bounty is around 300k .. Which is tiny.
When it was done by Alliance, Empire, Federation, I would have had a combined one in the millions.
Only targets in the millions are worth risking your ship for.
So currently Traders are a low risk, high reward option for player pirates.
Majinvash
.Because if they don't, they'll be killed.
Certainly, they should try desperately to get away, but if and when it becomes obvious that they can't escape, there should be a very high chance that they'll capitulate. That's how piracy works in the real world, after all; the victims try to get away, and if they can't, they generally give up and give the pirates what they want because people generally don't want to die and are willing to give up property to avoid it if they must. Even in the case of player commanders, it's probably the case that the cost of the cargo is less than the cost of insurance.
'Stand and deliver, your money or your life!' ends up with the victim choosing money most of the time for a reason. Except in E: D, where everybody is suicidal and desperately wants the pirates to put them out of their misery...
.
Regarding your 'Stand and Delivery' bit, yes in RL 99.999% of the time the target will hand over his cash since he is up against someone who is armed. But in the ED Universe, everyone is armed, or at least has the ability to be armed. And it seems SJA is trying to get her minions to adopt real player characteristics (and I think she is doing a damn fine job of it too), so if a real Commander would run and if he can't run, fight, so to will the NPCs.
.
I have no problems with Pirating, as long as they understand there is no obligation for their targets to obey. They aren't obeying the laws of the Verse are they? Yet it seems when things don't go their way, even with NPCs, we see a rash of posts in the forum complaining that everyone is mean to the poor pirates.
Everyone's praising the new combat AI... while in truth it has little to do with how "stupid" or "smart" NPCs seem.
Here you have a perfect example of why combat AI shouldn't have been the focus of FDevs, but rather the meta NPC behavior. Can you negotiate with NPC pirates as a trader? Can you get them to stop shooting by dropping cargo? Can you make a show of force as a pirate towards trader NPCs? Can you demand their cargo?
The answer to all those questions is, of course, "no". <sarcasm> But at least NPCs fight better. Yey! </sarcasm>
PS. Having the NPC traders always run also isn't "smart" AI. Just like you'll have a few players willing to negotiate, so too should NPCs. But, well, implementing negotiations for NPCs would be hard. They'd need to design an interface for talking with NPCs, the new AI logic, test the whole thing... Oh wait, FDevs use the backers as testers. Well, scratch that point then.
Here you have a perfect example of why combat AI shouldn't have been the focus of FDevs, but rather the meta NPC behavior. Can you negotiate with NPC pirates as a trader? Can you get them to stop shooting by dropping cargo? Can you make a show of force as a pirate towards trader NPCs? Can you demand their cargo?
The answer to all those questions is, of course, "no". <sarcasm> But at least NPCs fight better. Yey! </sarcasm>
PS. Having the NPC traders always run also isn't "smart" AI. Just like you'll have a few players willing to negotiate, so too should NPCs. But, well, implementing negotiations for NPCs would be hard. They'd need to design an interface for talking with NPCs, the new AI logic, test the whole thing... Oh wait, FDevs use the backers as testers. Well, scratch that point then.
Last edited: