General / Off-Topic The Germany must go out of the EU ?

Strangepork

Strangepork
[video=youtube;1gKX9TWRyfs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gKX9TWRyfs[/video]

ZEITGEIST 2: ADDENDUM (FULL MOVIE!) - PLEASE SHARE
 
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Sysmon

Sysmon
Europe wouldn't be better off without Germany, but the policy of austerity will have to change. Part of the problem of Greece was a lack of ability to devaluate its currency. That and rather dubious finance politics. While there have been comparisons between the help Germany got after WW2 and what Greece is going through now, they are not really comparable. Greece hasn't been bombed to smithereens, and we have no real fear that leaving Greece behind and poor will start another war in Europe. And Greece wasn't quite honest with its accounting...

But let's not leave Greece behind. Isn't Europe supposed to be able to help its member countries through the Union? And wasn't there originally a way to kick a country from the Union if it underperformed?

:D S
 

Surfinjo

Surfinjo
deathmagnet said:
One of the strongest and bigger backers of the Euro.....
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The EU project looks set to fail largely because of the different directions France, Germany and England insist upon going in.

I find that tragic personally. We've long since lost sight of the reasons for establishing the EU in the first place, that was world wars, which killed millions who had nothing to do with Europe.
 

Patrick_68000

Patrick_68000
An agreement was found for the Greece. The Germany does not want to leave the Euro and preferred to approve the proposals of its partners

:p
 

Fyrd Judge

Fyrd Judge
With out Germany , The EU is dead, they are the ones paying the most into it. What Germany should do is make a pact with the UK and reform Europe.
 
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Alien

Alien
Fyrd Judge said:
With out Germany , The EU is dead, they are the ones paying the most into it. What Germany should do is make a pact with the UK and reform Europe.
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Only if we get a big saw, cut France out and push it down around Spain and towards Libya. :p
(I'm teasing, let's fire France off into space and see if it catches up to Voyager II :p)
(OK, I am teasing again ... I love France :D)
 

Surfinjo

Surfinjo
Fyrd Judge said:
With out Germany , The EU is dead, they are the ones paying the most into it. What Germany should do is make a pact with the UK and reform Europe.
Click to expand...

This sadly, is what is really tearing Europe apart. Germany has manoeuvred itself into the position of pocket money provider for Europe and expects obedience for its trouble.

When the dust has settled and we look back here, it seems likely that this will be the most major folly in the entire project.

It is utterly outrageous that one member has used its own position to give itself so much power.

The NYT has some interesting thoughts. Though they are typically extreme as befits most US journals, as always, they contain some important elements of truth.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/krugman/2015/07/12/killing-the-european-project/
 

huwthomas

huwthomas
Germany out of the EU, or out of the eurozone? There is a case for the latter (Germany plus other hard currency countries like Finland), then the remaining countries could adjust the value of the euro to a level that suits them better. It seems to me that France would be in the middle, with a difficult decision to make ... pride/politics vs pragmatism.

Creditors who remained in euros would not have a case for complaint, since they would receive however many euros they are owed ... nobody promised anything about purchasing power :)
 

Surfinjo

Surfinjo
The Euro is turning out to be a nightmare of enormous proportions.

It didn't need to be this way. French cheating and German authoritarianism have created a horrible outcome.

http://blogs.channel4.com/paul-mason-blog/greece-wins-euro-debt-deal-democracy-loser/4155
If you doubt how it might play on the Greek streets, consider the headline of Dimokratia, a conservative tabloid: “Greece in Auschwitz: Schauble attempts eurozone holocaust”.

Last night the eurozone leaders presented Greece with an ultimatum that shredded all vestiges of control the government has over the economy going forward, and reversed every law it has put through parliament since being elected with 36 per cent of the vote in January.

While Greeks vented, and the hashtag #ThisIsACoup went viral across the globe, Tsipras and his team negotiated. They knew that to have any chance of getting the deal through parliament they must free themselves of IMF involvement, resist the foreign-held privatisation fund, get some commitment to debt reprofiling and an assurance that the ECB will turn the taps of emergency lending back on to the banks.
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- See more at: http://blogs.channel4.com/paul-maso...eal-democracy-loser/4155#sthash.es6UWGeI.dpuf
 

Fyrd Judge

Fyrd Judge
Surfinjo said:
This sadly, is what is really tearing Europe apart. Germany has manoeuvred itself into the position of pocket money provider for Europe and expects obedience for its trouble.

When the dust has settled and we look back here, it seems likely that this will be the most major folly in the entire project.

It is utterly outrageous that one member has used its own position to give itself so much power.

The NYT has some interesting thoughts. Though they are typically extreme as befits most US journals, as always, they contain some important elements of truth.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/krugman/2015/07/12/killing-the-european-project/
Click to expand...

The other major issue was, you have many states in the EU who should have never been allowed in, they were basket case economies. Greek politicians let their own people down by fiddling their economy books to get into the EU, purely to get access to EU cash. Portugal, Spain, Ireland also were countries that were destined to be fed EU cash to prop their economies. So really I don't see it as German fault i see the fault as being shared across the board of all of them, because they were all fooling each other.

And it proves, Margaret Thatcher was right, thank god she kept us out of this.
 
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Surfinjo

Surfinjo
Fyrd Judge said:
The other major issue was, you have many states in the EU who should have never been allowed in, they were basket case economies. Greek politicians let their own people down by fiddling their economy books to get into the EU, purely to get access to EU cash. Portugal, Spain, Ireland also were countries that were destined to be fed EU cash to prop their economies. So really I don't see it as German fault i see the fault as being shared across the board of all of them, because they were all fooling each other.

And it proves, Margaret Thatcher was right, thank god she kept us out of this.
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The issue of the rapid expansion of the EU may well be connected. My own feeling is that it was and remains the right thing to do.

Where the EU seems to have gone so badly wrong is with the single currency. In itself a great idea, sadly undermined by so many compromises.

While I understand the point about Thatcher, I also beleive that that isolationist approach was probably the worst thing for Europe. It meant that the economic expertese of London was all but bypassed and European finances were put into the hands of Germany and France.

London should have been the centre of the European economy. That is were the proven expertese lies.

It's a sad reality that the EU has been brought to its knees by the competing aims of Germany, France and England.
 

huwthomas

huwthomas
There was supposed to be economic convergence, clearly this does not exist across the eurozone (not even among all the more "important" countries IMO).

Convergence was considered so important it was enshrined in the eurozone's founding treaty -- and so the current eurozone cannot work ... unless it becomes a fiscal/transfer union too.

Everything we see now is can-kicking and plaster-sticking.
 
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