Specifically why do they have such little ammo? Don't they just fire a small tungsten projectile. In all reality the rounds fired from the Rail Guns should be significantly smaller than that of the Cannons. 1/30 ammo is abysmally low and is the primary reason I opt to use cannons over them, they should have double if not triple there current reserve in my opinion.
Rail Guns?
- Thread starter MrFuddyDuddy
- Start date
'Balance' is why.
Plausible justifications for the limited ammo pool could be rated rail/barrel life, or the reloads and magazine space including rail swaps.
Over nerfd is why. They want everybody to run only gimbal lasers.
Perhaps they are sabot rounds, so take up a lot more space than you would think? Having handled both 20mm and 30mm sabot rounds for CIWS, I can assure you that they are quite bulky for the actual calibre of the projectile.
Mind you, they were good old-fashioned chemical driven rounds, so a fair amount of the bulk sits behind the projectile and it's sabot casing.
Mind you, they were good old-fashioned chemical driven rounds, so a fair amount of the bulk sits behind the projectile and it's sabot casing.
Counting the cost is part of the challenge to this weapon.
Don't think of just the slug, think of the rails that need replacing after each shot (It'd be great if there was a graphic of this
). I first read about this idea from CMDR Morbad and I thought it was a great idea.
The gun would be overpowered with too much ammo. You've really got to try and make your shots count.
edit: Holy moly, ninja'd like an Imperial Hammer.
Don't think of just the slug, think of the rails that need replacing after each shot (It'd be great if there was a graphic of this
). I first read about this idea from CMDR Morbad and I thought it was a great idea.The gun would be overpowered with too much ammo. You've really got to try and make your shots count.
edit: Holy moly, ninja'd like an Imperial Hammer.
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Maybe in a sidewinder/Eagle the ammo would be constrained... But everything else is either huge or gigantic.
Yeah seriously, Missiles, Torpedoes hell even the dumb fire Missiles are arbitrary weapons and useless due to their tiny ammo counts. I love how the Plasma Accelerator has 100 spare ammo, sure its projectiles are slow, but so are the rounds from the cannon and those don't hit nearly as hard and are only effective against hull. its funny to think that aside from trying to down shields in PvP Rail Guns serve no other real practical purpose. With the way the game is set up now its either all lasers, or mostly lasers and maybe throw a cannon or 2 in there.
+1
Totally agree
Because they do ridiculous amounts of damage to modules when they hit. Like obscene.
This is why c3 railguns aren't in the game - because a hit to a power plant with one would drop most ships like a stone.
I'm ok with railguns as is until powerplant sniping becomes a less prominent part of the meta, and I'm guessing Fdev probably feels this way as well.
This is why c3 railguns aren't in the game - because a hit to a power plant with one would drop most ships like a stone.
I'm ok with railguns as is until powerplant sniping becomes a less prominent part of the meta, and I'm guessing Fdev probably feels this way as well.
C4 railgun would probably be a MAC gun...
[video=youtube;UToAdaNqPlA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UToAdaNqPlA[/video]
No need to aim for anything specific !
In all seriousness though, the decisions FD makes about weapons are understandable, but the mistake accompanying those decisions stack up. To the point that torpedoes (for example) have the biggest expensive to useless ratio in the game... Torpedoes... That thing that should be able to sink- I mean blow a ship in one hit (which is why you can only have one ammo). And that's when it's able to bypass the many ways to counter it ! (shields/ECM/PDS).
When I heard of torpedoes in Elite, I hoped for the same concept as in Starlancer, Torpedoes that are one fourth the size of a small ship and that not only create an explosion big enough to damage/destroy shields and ships (small/medium(?)) but that could blow up a capital ship in one volley (of less than ~5 torpedoes)...
But they're up there with the weapons that are barely used because they're either too niche, or just not worth the effort because of weapons that do the job better...
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Someone earlier said it perfectly: why do most people use gimbled pulses/bursts and multi-cannons?
Because the Game Designer has made every other weapon so power-hungry (beams, rails), so susceptible to heat overload (rails), or so easily countered (dumbfires, torpedos) that it's little wonder that there's hardly any variation between loadouts.
(Heck, even after trying them I couldn't determine the reason Bursts even exist.)
We get 12 different doodads for internals that add buffs for hulls and shields - but most of the population probably uses the same 3-4 weapons.
Even some of the PowerPlay weapons... "God no, we can't have Extra-strong Weapons that EVERYONE can't buy in EVERY station! Make them purple, and fire faster, but do the same damage as anything else... oh, and don't forget to make it take a million megajoules to deploy."
Because the Game Designer has made every other weapon so power-hungry (beams, rails), so susceptible to heat overload (rails), or so easily countered (dumbfires, torpedos) that it's little wonder that there's hardly any variation between loadouts.
(Heck, even after trying them I couldn't determine the reason Bursts even exist.)
We get 12 different doodads for internals that add buffs for hulls and shields - but most of the population probably uses the same 3-4 weapons.
Even some of the PowerPlay weapons... "God no, we can't have Extra-strong Weapons that EVERYONE can't buy in EVERY station! Make them purple, and fire faster, but do the same damage as anything else... oh, and don't forget to make it take a million megajoules to deploy."
Weapons are self contained, and I have no particular problem with this.
They aren't useless unless you are basing utility purely on the ability to send dozens or hundreds of AI to the scrap yard between dockings.
Dumbfires are pretty useless currently, but torpedoes are solid anti-subsystem weapons that are fast enough to catch almost any ship, even if it's got a good head start, and seekers are devastating once shields are down as no one mounts anti-missile defenses any more.
I have no problem with gimbaled pulse lasers and multi-cannon being solid and popular weapons. They are effective, easy to use, and applicable in a wide variety of situations.
However, this does not mean they are the only effective weapons, or that less popular weapon need to be adjusted.
My favorite weapons, one that nearly every ship I run mounts at least one of, are fixed beam lasers. I also find railguns to be some of the most intimidating weapons, in the hands of a skilled pilot.
Heh. That's the key... I've got a PDT mounted on every ship I fly; the T7 has 2 of them.
I'm a huge fan of beams, but it take other loadout/power sacrifices to mount them. (Currently I'm sacrificing Oxygen during combat.)
Rails can be intimidating on occasion, just like Plasmas, but again - due to the sacrifices you have to make to run them in a Fighter - it's not a commonly seen threat.
I loved Beams until I threw 2 C3 Gimballed ones on my Vulture and couldn't fire the damn things more than maybe 5 seconds without them over heating, making killing even ships like Sidewinders take much longer than it should. I hope they bring back variants to weapons, such as overcharged and what was it heat suppressed or something. Have a High damage/high heat model and lower damage/ lower heat variant as well. because C3 Gimballed Heat Suppressed Beam Lasers on a Vulture sounds like it would be filthy >: D
Edit: also while I'm thinking about it wheres the stuff like Arc casters, you know something that emits an electrical emission that decimates shields and over heats and destroys subsystems. Could allow allow it to chain to near by ships(possibly including the player, unless a new mod of some type is added)
Edit: also while I'm thinking about it wheres the stuff like Arc casters, you know something that emits an electrical emission that decimates shields and over heats and destroys subsystems. Could allow allow it to chain to near by ships(possibly including the player, unless a new mod of some type is added)
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Rails are ridiculously good at taking out modules, any more ammo or any higher powered ones would just make it a bit too easy. I like the fact that you have to be careful with the shots, but if you are - you can really hammer an opponent. I've currently swapped to a mix of fixed beams, a turret and rails on my Python and it's awesome
Have to agree on the "It's for balance" comments here.
It's a high damage, hitscan weapon that is effective against shields, hull and modules — Giving it high ammo count, and suddenly everyone uses nothing but railguns.
Anyone remember Beta, where cannons did equal damage to shields, hull and modules, while still having100 rounds= (As Morbad reminded me, they had 2100 rounds!) I never saw anyone use anything else during that period.
(At least projectile speed was a problem there, but it was completely bypassed by having a fast ship that dictates the distances)
It's a high damage, hitscan weapon that is effective against shields, hull and modules — Giving it high ammo count, and suddenly everyone uses nothing but railguns.
Anyone remember Beta, where cannons did equal damage to shields, hull and modules, while still having
(At least projectile speed was a problem there, but it was completely bypassed by having a fast ship that dictates the distances)
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Balanced via ammo pfff, (that balance only serves to make players dock more).
I'll explain to you how I use my rail guns atm, only in PvP, that means that I only ever use them on other players, after Ive been in a single fight, I head back to the station and reload them (30 is perfect for this), if I am doing anything PvE I dont use rail guns, the negatives out weigh the positives for PvE.