ED is a flight sim as much as it is a tower defence.
Other than that I see your point
I am disheartened, my fellow commanders
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ED is a flight sim as much as it is a tower defence.
Other than that I see your point
Don't minor factions expand already with player support? Don't you already get feedback at the end of a mission? Yeah, I know it's bugged to high heaven - but it does work somewhat already (shame about the added distraction of PowerPlay...) And I agree that the impacts of what 'boom', 'expansion', 'civil war' etc. are poorly presented to the player right now, and have appear to have limited impact on supply, demand and prices.
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I agree that the way the p2p system works means we probably see a lot fewer people than we should, and unfortunately, I don't think that's ever going to change. With hindsight it would have been better to maybe have only 200 - 500 systems inhabited, and model those in more detail, with more active outward expansion as the game progressed.
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*EDIT* Oh. And Galnet is trying to explain the background sim more. In those 'top 10' news items that are appearing there is usually a bit of blurb as to what the effects on a system are of its current status. Could do with being on the right side panel of the ship for clarity though.
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to everyone who do think he can't influence the world in e:d, does not know how missions play into that, etc.: this is an amazing reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDange...its_guide_to_galactic_politics_or_so_you_want
i worked with it and flipped 3 of 4 systems; of course some bugs occur, but it works.
i actually like that you can't flip a system in "some days" or by a single type of game (e.g. combat, trading only, you need to multirole. galnet is referring to it no in it#s "war" or "spot on democracy" news. i think that's an improvement, to tell cmdr a little bit about evolving galaxies mechanics in galnet ;-)
that said: i guess
hits a point which OP does, too. i always understood the invention of powerplay as something to give people characters to "identify" with, to attach to. i thought of it as a brave move game design wise. i didn't powerplay mayself, but i t looks as if it did not work out well, whyever.
i don't think a game has to be for everybody etc. etc. but this kind of attachement, this kind of immersion in the very meaning, i would like to see growing. i don't care about others concerning that, i care about my own experience. posts like this post of an OP helps to see the problems. there are problems - i mean, there will be updates for some years!
ED is a flight sim as much as it is a tower defence.
Other than that I see your point
Erm. If it's not a 'survey' style flight sim. what is it? Heck, all of the ships behave like aircraft-submarine-helicopter hybrids rather than spaceships anyway.
The impact of player action on the game world has long since been an aspect of significant gravity for me as well. However, I don't think it's fair to assume killing a scad of pirates, solo, would ever make much impact on a gigantic universe such as this.
Sort of. I very much doubt that one person could change the influence in a week for anything meaningful to happen in game. I'd much prefer that the game have projects for each system and faction of things they are trying to do and then generate missions based off of those projects and then be able to see the projects progress in some way. Currently all you can do is really help tilt influence of a faction, but what if you want to help them establish a new station, or populate a new sector, or get more population, or upgrade their current station which would help their influence grow faster, or eradicate a faction in a neighboring system and take their stuff over . . . you really never get to directly influence events, and everything is kind of abstract in the background that you can't really tell what's going on.
As I stated prior, I know you can influence minor factions and other systems via missions. What if there is a minor faction I'm interested in taking down, but no missions address it. Shouldn't my repeated destruction of their vessels affect them? So far, I haven't seen any change. Instead, if I want to have any effect on a faction/system, then I need to do the missions presented which aren't interesting to me....usually.
Now that is a good idea. Some text in the factions box, e.g. "this faction is attempting to build a new outpost in orbit around X" or "this faction is seeking pilots to perform reconnaissance on its rival", and then generate appropriate missions ("transport materials, guard the station under construction, provide transport escort" etc.) in the first instance, (or "photograph this base at X, deliver orders to contact at Y, provide a distraction by attacking Z etc." in the second), for access on the bulletin board.
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I agree that it shouldn't necessarily affect the universe, but locally it should. Of course, dependent on how many of a faction destroyed, etc.
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That's something I could see enjoying. Most missions I see are a frequent attack on neighboring systems. Which doesn't make sense. One mission they want me attacking their patrols, the next delivering some stuff to them or helping them out.
It feels too random.
try to play with other people where you can make a difference.
the simulation ... simulates nothing, actually, it's just a dynamic background, a closed spinning system you can swim in but not really interact with. this should be obvious after a few hours of play. pp adds some color but again it's you who have to give any meaning to those random color bubbles in space. maybe the game will some day deliver that, but there's plenty crazy stuff you can do in the meantime. if you run out of ideas try getting near other cmdrs, see what they're up to. there are often funny proposals on the forum, check them out. and at least we can always gib each other to pieces, that never gets old!
I have to agree, I've played this game off and on since january and it's felt so procedurally generated with not enough player immersion that it becomes difficult to play. Things like reputation and rank ascension after powerplay are so confusing. Pirates and law enforcement just spawn in with generic text. For how big the universe is, I agree that we as players could be given more influence with our actions to change an entire system so that the "static formulas" don't just take over the system again.
nats
Banned
I also haven't played this game in quite a while since before PP. I played it a lot in Standard Beta and after that but I am aware that the gameplay is quite repetitive and not very immersive once you figure out there isn't actually anything much going on. BUT I do tend to play it every few months when a big patch comes out. And I am mainly waiting for the planet landings expansion because the main thing I love is the simulation part of these Elite games - and landing on a planet is quite highly skill based, a lot more so than landing in a station.
But the game is so massive that is why its so bare boned - the dev's dont seem to have ever got to grips with putting more detail into the various career options to make them all equally riveting.
How long have we been waiting now for passengers, a detailed trading GUI system, all the ships, more stations, proper bounty hunting, smuggling and piracy, what about the stupid stealth system that has no useful function etc? The game promised so much and so far has failed to deliver most of it. I am not entirely certain that the devs will ever get all the stuff expected into the game.
I am fully expecting this game to be unfinished two or three years from now.
But the game is so massive that is why its so bare boned - the dev's dont seem to have ever got to grips with putting more detail into the various career options to make them all equally riveting.
How long have we been waiting now for passengers, a detailed trading GUI system, all the ships, more stations, proper bounty hunting, smuggling and piracy, what about the stupid stealth system that has no useful function etc? The game promised so much and so far has failed to deliver most of it. I am not entirely certain that the devs will ever get all the stuff expected into the game.
I am fully expecting this game to be unfinished two or three years from now.
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I must admit that I've shelved the game for a while myself. I was really enjoying it, as I was role playing my commander, but there's only so far that imagination can take you with such limited game mechanics. I've not logged in for a few weeks now.
The problem is that it's all fake on the very fundamental level: there are no rivals, there's no need for transport (whether you do it or not does not matter as there is no outcome, etc.), you can not distract anyone or any progression because there is no progression, and so on.
However at least this would be a bit more "believable" as a single player experience so as a first step I would like to see something like this. On the long run the real persistency would be the goal for me. A fundament on which it's a joy to build and a joy to play with. Elaborating the fake elements will not get a lot of cheer for long term.
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I must agree, i have an Anaconda worth over 250m, plus 60m in the bank, i continue trading sometimes, i change fittings and go bounty hunting, explore sometimes, but i do feel that there is nothing to gain except more credits, which i don't really care about anymore. I want to achieve something, make a difference, but nothing ever changes really.
If you find everything so 'fake' at a fundamental level then I don't know what to suggest to you. All games ultimately are 'fake' and 'time wasters' - willing suspension of disbelief has to come in somewhere. I don't agree that there have to be 'rivals' or a tangible 'outcome' for my enjoyment of the games content, though in the instances and examples I cited above, the other factions in the system could or would be rivals, and potentially be offering missions in direct conflict and opposition. Likewise it would be nice to see something like Shadow of Mordor's 'nemesis' system in Elite. I don't agree there is no progression, when the game has more progression (credits, ships, factions, ranks etc.) than previous iterations. Now again, YMMV, and progression in Elite has always just been 'numbers counting up'.
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The criticism 'a mile wide but an inch deep' *IS* a valid one, and I accept people stop playing because of that sentiment. That's why ultimately I've stopped playing every previous iteration (actually that's a lie, I sneakily prefer FFE to E: D, and still fire it up on the laptop, but...), and will eventually stop playing this one, though hopefully not for a few years. Realistically, I don't see how all of these huge expectations everyone has (myself included) can ever be met. You just can't simulate a persistent universe in any real depth, and run a real time flight sim, on top of that, on current hardware, via p2p networking, with a 'light' server back end. I'd imagine that the game will stay 'fundamental fake' *as is* for the foreseeable future.
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So, at present, I'm hunting pirates. Just chased a deadly diamondback around a gas giant to try and get close enough to interdict him. Got to close to the rings and dropped out to be confronted with a Deadly Anaconda with an Asp as Wingman. Ran. Pranged into the rings again (D'oh!) Got into a fight with a vulture, then a wing of 8(?!?) sidewinders jumps in and starts having a go as well. Ran again. Currently at an outpost licking my wounds. Was chased by the wing of sideys back to the outpost. For moment-to-moment gameplay, the game does occasionally deliver, even with the current, flawed systems.
The OP makes the same point people have been making since beta. Amazing alpha showed the potential the DDF proposals laid out an incredible path for the game, as the game progressed through beta and into gamma and into release and now into...whatever we have it's clear that the point being made since beta holds true....
...mile wide
....inch deep.
Simple as that FD I'm sorry. 10 year plan or not very very few will hang around to see if it comes to fruition. If they aren't hanging around and enjoying the depth and vision (such as that proposed and discussed in the DDF) then they will not be talking about how great the game is outside of the ED forums and generating the market to continue sales drive.
You can hire on as many community managers as you like but ultimately in a game of this nature the word of mouth sells it far better. I haven't selled the game since beta when I got 8 friends to sign up. I'm ashamed to say I was the last one to boot it up and that was 1.3 patch 1.
...mile wide
....inch deep.
Simple as that FD I'm sorry. 10 year plan or not very very few will hang around to see if it comes to fruition. If they aren't hanging around and enjoying the depth and vision (such as that proposed and discussed in the DDF) then they will not be talking about how great the game is outside of the ED forums and generating the market to continue sales drive.
You can hire on as many community managers as you like but ultimately in a game of this nature the word of mouth sells it far better. I haven't selled the game since beta when I got 8 friends to sign up. I'm ashamed to say I was the last one to boot it up and that was 1.3 patch 1.
this post sums up how i feel about the game.
i've not played it much at all recently. It's just so damm EMPTY. It's not got the lasting power than XBTF had, or even Frontier / First Encounters (weirdly)
...also, Ppwerplay is dreadful.
i've not played it much at all recently. It's just so damm EMPTY. It's not got the lasting power than XBTF had, or even Frontier / First Encounters (weirdly)
...also, Ppwerplay is dreadful.
On the subject of Minor Factions, and player influence:
Sure - your actions can influence what faction has more control in a system. You can (over time), see this:
LUI BAJA Freedom Party: 50%
LUI BAJA Corporate: 45%
LUI BAJA Mafia: 5%
turn into this...
LUI BAJA Corporate: 50%
LUI BAJA Freedom Party: 43%
LUI BAJA Mafia: 7%
With little Green arrows of course.
Seriously - that's a payoff to the player of some sort? How does that impact anything, at all, ever? In some way that you really notice? Who gives a damn which Faction is at the top of the list? The missions will be the same, except the Faction offering it will be different.
And on trade and missions:
Why is that a station that only produces Gold and Palladium seem to have little demand for FOOD? Sure, you'll see a Charity Mission... "LUI BAJA Needs 6 Food Cartridges! We'll pay you $2,000 to find them! Help us!" ... a) does anyone except a newbie in a Sidewinder ever go out of their way to do this and b) why isn't Lui Baja freaking STARVING to death?!? Why aren't nearly ALL the missions at that station basically "Bring us food, beer, and tobacco. We'll pay you 4x the going rate." No one ever really seems to need Food, Tea, or Liquor in this game. They just want Performance Enhancers. You'll profit $900-1100 for every ton of steroids you bring in, but strangely groceries aren't a priority.
On a related note, it's odd how many assassination contracts are offered for Celebrities. Dead Celebrities are also a bigger priority than food and liquor. Maybe the stations have NPCs with corpse limpets, who fly around into USS points and collect the dead celebrities, so that station residents have something to eat...
Hint for the Art Department: Stop putting Lakon/Tie Fighter Canopies on everything.
Hint for the Ship Designer: Stop making every new ship be another flavor of chocolate. "Ship Mk1 has 3 Small Hardpoints, and the Mk2 have 1 Small and 1 Medium Hardpoint - with a Max Speed of 270 instead of 280. But with an extra E1 cargo slot." Enough of that, already.
To end on a brighter note: I do enjoy the combat quite a bit.... Sarah's work on NPC combat has been stellar. I hope the rest of the team will take some inspiration from her work.
Sure - your actions can influence what faction has more control in a system. You can (over time), see this:
LUI BAJA Freedom Party: 50%
LUI BAJA Corporate: 45%
LUI BAJA Mafia: 5%
turn into this...
LUI BAJA Corporate: 50%
LUI BAJA Freedom Party: 43%
LUI BAJA Mafia: 7%
With little Green arrows of course.
Seriously - that's a payoff to the player of some sort? How does that impact anything, at all, ever? In some way that you really notice? Who gives a damn which Faction is at the top of the list? The missions will be the same, except the Faction offering it will be different.
And on trade and missions:
Why is that a station that only produces Gold and Palladium seem to have little demand for FOOD? Sure, you'll see a Charity Mission... "LUI BAJA Needs 6 Food Cartridges! We'll pay you $2,000 to find them! Help us!" ... a) does anyone except a newbie in a Sidewinder ever go out of their way to do this and b) why isn't Lui Baja freaking STARVING to death?!? Why aren't nearly ALL the missions at that station basically "Bring us food, beer, and tobacco. We'll pay you 4x the going rate." No one ever really seems to need Food, Tea, or Liquor in this game. They just want Performance Enhancers. You'll profit $900-1100 for every ton of steroids you bring in, but strangely groceries aren't a priority.
On a related note, it's odd how many assassination contracts are offered for Celebrities. Dead Celebrities are also a bigger priority than food and liquor. Maybe the stations have NPCs with corpse limpets, who fly around into USS points and collect the dead celebrities, so that station residents have something to eat...
Hint for the Art Department: Stop putting Lakon/Tie Fighter Canopies on everything.
Hint for the Ship Designer: Stop making every new ship be another flavor of chocolate. "Ship Mk1 has 3 Small Hardpoints, and the Mk2 have 1 Small and 1 Medium Hardpoint - with a Max Speed of 270 instead of 280. But with an extra E1 cargo slot." Enough of that, already.
To end on a brighter note: I do enjoy the combat quite a bit.... Sarah's work on NPC combat has been stellar. I hope the rest of the team will take some inspiration from her work.
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I wouldn't say I am a fanboy, I enjoy the game and understand the current limitations. I think Elite: Dangerous has some very specific challenges not least that there is a perceived lack of depth, for a game that was created 30 years ago. It also has a problem on the horizon in the shape of No Man's Sky and Star Citizen. That all said, I think Elite is still a great game even in its current state, what is different to this breed of games to the games of the last decade, is that it has refused to dumb down.
Like the games of 30 years ago, you are still required to use some of your imagination in order to get the most out of the game. It doesn't serve it all up on a plate for you, you still have to engage your brain and think. And I maybe in some danger when I say that it is typical of the innovation you see in the British and French Software Industry, rather than the cardboard cut out dumbed down games we get out of the States.