The New Guilds and Player Owned Stations Discussion Thread.
- Thread starter VladtheImpaler
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That's also true, which is why ANY poll that doesn't target solely owners of the game can't be taken as representative.
Even putting a poll in the launcher wouldn't reach those who don't currently play ED.
If you don't like the toxic reasons behind wanting guilds and station ownership being pointed out as the underpinnings of every single argument arrayed here, then post some positive ones that can't be easily reasoned away by what you aggressively and desperately claim to be "ignorant naysaying". However, your name-calling and use of inflammatory, baiting language do nothing to help support a case that is already shattered by corrupt voting practice and intimidation tactics - just the sort of behavior that many self-aggrandising guilds, when looking for notoriety and power, become known for - and precisely the sort of thing we don't want or need here.
Thank you for proving our point so comprehensively. Those of us playing Elite appreciate what you've done to keep the game on track.
You're welcome
However, I think you (and many others) fail to appreciate that there are (for want of a better term) "Fifty Shades of Guild". You are highlighting an extreme example of an anti-social guild, labelling the whole lot as toxic and behaving like some sort of ultimate arbiter on what is appropriate for the good of the game when you clearly haven't taken the time to read and digest many of the points made in this thread. Sorry, but I stand by my description of your comment.
(I will, however, concede that it's difficult to trawl through pages of discussions about polls.)
Lol. Just lol.
Earlier in the thread I attempted to trigger a sideways conversation where we looked at ways that the needs of the Guild naysayers and yea-sayers could be balanced against a lack of content and social interaction. Anyone up for it?
EDIT: Forgot to respond to the below:
Guilds are not solely some narcissistic mechanism for players to annoy others or seek notoriety. And your statement suggests that you think that the existing friends or powerplay functionality are fit for the purpose which the user is attempting to achieve - which isn't necessarily true for many other players.
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No I very much hoped you would
Because I sure as heck never said people from reddit voting is inherently bad. And if we have a communication barrier as you say, that needs to be removed.
Where am I saying that a vote from reddit is inherently bad?
My point here simply is: the thread being linked in a reddit thread with 83% favouring guilds will adjust the results. And I was right. Coupled with the fact that people on reddit tend to be organised and drawn towards guilds.
Again, nowhere am I saying that reddit is inherently bad.
This is simple logic.
A proponent of guilds is urging people to go vote in this thread. In the vote they are behind, so that's a strong incentiviser. Coupled with the completely not inherently bad nature of players on reddit (tending towards organised player interaction) it was clear from the get-go what this would do with the vote results. A large base was mobilised. And it's inherently more easy to mobilise groups of players with a tendency for organised groups. Especially when promoted by a proponent of guilds.
Earlier on I used the example of 2 political parties during an election. Where only one party gets to campaign. This will of course skew the voting results.
So, with regard to the results, the advertising in 3 different threads that happened on reddit was bad for it's representation. If this had happened on any other medium, I would have stated exactly the same. If the yes/no roles were reversed, I would have stated exactly the same. I have studied statistics, and a part of that was related to public polling. I can talk for hours if you want on the difficulties of conducting a representative poll. Which is difficult in person, more difficult on the phone, more difficult via email and almost impossible on the internet. Which such a delicate balance, a sudden influx of likeminded individuals with the characteristics I described above, it really never stood a chance.
Mind you, the same goes for the earlier poll. I'm in this because poll results can be made to sit, roll over and fetch a newspaper if you know your way around them.
What I mean is, nowhere in those quotes do you see me say: reddit is inherently bad. You read implications into it that I didn't express.
If you are wondering whether I'm implying this, ask. Don't assume. I'm right here and happy to clarify my position.
It may have been less agitated if you had implied my favourite colour was yellow. But painting my position as "reddit is inherently bad" doesn't sit well with me.
Ah, the sympathy card. Clever. Well played. And it's working as well
No apologies necessary, but appreciate the gesture.
I'm not the best at talking to people whom I am not being paid to interact with, I'm told I am quite cold and 'undelivered'. I never hit the human note with my preaching. But thanks, I could see that you were predicting and enjoying with regards to the results so I'm glad at least I got that part right when I assumed. I just thought that you meant reddit were well known for rigging in a particular direction or something subversive like that - I completely understand the logic behind what you are saying. In fact, my memory is useless but I think I posted (in a far less organized way than yours) what you said yourself.
So reddit is essentially just a group (or groups?) of communities that talk a lot and over represent themselves and this is why they are met with antipathy?
It's simply crunchy vs smooth peanut butter. I like smooth, you like crunchy. I don't want crunchy bits (guilds) in my Elite peanut butter
Because like guilds crunchy bits get stuck in your teeth.
In that case, the 'No to Guilds and Yes to Stations' option is conspicuously missing from the Poll.
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Ozric
Volunteer Moderator
Why do people use the term fanboy and it's derivatives to mean a bad thing? Even people who use the term White Knight for people here are very much mistaken. I have not seen one person on these forums who has always been unquestionably on the side of FD without ever offering any kind of constructive criticism or disagreeing with the way certain things are done.
For the most part these terms are used by people who find a lot of people arguing against the way that they would want to see things done, that go against the principles of this particular game, more often than not just because what they want to happen occurs in other games and therefore believe they should also occur in this one.
They should be mutually exclusive polls, imo.
I didn't mean REDDIT users as a whole. There are most likely lots of REDDIT members who are quite happy without guilds and would vote "no" on the poll. I meant that if someone in favour of guilds garnered the votes of his fellow yay-sayers from REDDIT or any other social network group they could see it as a chance to further their cause by skewing the vote on here. Look at what happened when a facebook group managed to gather enough support that they actually got Rage Against The Machines - Killing In The Name OF- to number one in the UK music charts for Christmas! Enough people managed to agree to pay the cost of a single track download to give us a a Christmas No 1 single with some heavy duty swearing in the lyrics just to stop Simon Cowells manufactured star from his TV show getting to the top spot.
The power of media groups is huge!
Nothing against REDDIT though. Sorry did not mean to imply that
And most of those are (like me) legitimate players
That quote proves nothing, stop bringing it up as evidence
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Jenner said this is not possible.
You really don't read many threads here do you? There are very few fanbois actually, most of the people who post here are pretty critical.
IP addresses are a poor way of doing that, it's pretty easy to get around and anyone bothering to multivote will almost certainly be doing that. Better way, as someone before suggested, was tying the game account email to the forum email but even there you may have a few people using different email addresses for either.
Me.
If it is polite and enlightened.
Friendly banter Yes
The tone of some comments on this thread Not interested No
Friendly discussion Yes
You've missed the point, the mods have detected a massive influx of one off accounts (so many they have commented on it in this thread, which they have never done before) influencing the poll in a manner that is at odds with every other poll on this subject that has been run (there have been a few). The poll is invalid, it was invalidated by the underhand methods employed by the people trying to modify the outcome.
To clarify my standpoint I don't want guilds in the game because I disapprove of standard guild mechanics such as ballot stuffing, plus I have no interest in playground politics.
whipdiddywhip
Banned
can we stop the tinfoil hats please, noone is going to bother making HUNDREDS of fake accounts
I didn't mean REDDIT users as a whole. There are most likely lots of REDDIT members who are quite happy without guilds and would vote "no" on the poll. I meant that if someone in favour of guilds garnered the votes of his fellow yay-sayers from REDDIT or any other social network group they could see it as a chance to further their cause by skewing the vote on here. Look at what happened when a facebook group managed to gather enough support that they actually got Rage Against The Machines - Killing In The Name OF- to number one in the UK music charts for Christmas! Enough people managed to agree to pay the cost of a single track download to give us a a Christmas No 1 single with some heavy duty swearing in the lyrics just to stop Simon Cowells manufactured star from his TV show getting to the top spot.
The power of media groups is huge!
Nothing against REDDIT though. Sorry did not mean to imply that
Sorry, from the outside it seemed that 'reddit' was the reason behind it all rather than it being the fact people were trying to get votes in their favour.
*snort* You have no idea...
Ozric
Volunteer Moderator
Not that I want to get into this part of the argument as I generally disregard all polls on these forums anyway as they are representative of such a small % of the player base, but. Why wouldn't they? Why do people do DDOS attacks, why do people send spam mail just to block up people's accounts. Some people just have too much time on their hands
Ive felt the same way since this forum began; full of Plugs, Moles, Sock puppets. Why this would bug me now....
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