Ships Clipper - Cannon vs Multi-Cannon and Compensating for Hardpoint spread

mossfoot

mossfoot
For exploration my heart will always belong to the T6 as a functional non-violent workhorse.

But in the bubble (especially when playing my version of IronMan)? Violence is part of life, cargo is lifeblood, and the ability to run away is paramount.

As a result, I've fallen in love with the Clipper. Decent cargo capacity while still being a combat vehicle to reckon with, while having the speed to bail out before you become so much scrap metal.

The only downsides of the ship for me are: it's large size (no outposts), it's shorter jump range (though not terrible), it's weaker shields, and, of course, its weapon hardpoints.

Many people tend to go full gimbled with Clippers because of that unwieldy spread, but to get the most out of my C3 Beam I tend to go fixed on that one weapon and center the rest of the weapons around it.

This used to be my loadout:

http://coriolis.io/outfit/imperial_...f.Iw18aQ==.IwBhrSujSA==?bn=Mossfoot's Clipper

Which, admittedly I was happy with. Beam for power, pulse gimble to keep adding damage for the times I miss, and multicannons for cleanup. The B-rated powerplant was in case I ended up in PvP situations (it's the armored version)

However, I still wanted to find a better sweet spot and have a bigger punch against larger ships and decided to revisit cannons. So this is what I'm now testing:

http://coriolis.io/outfit/imperial_...w18aQ==.IwBhrSqjKA==?bn=Mossfoots Clipper Alt

C3 Beam fixed with C2 gimbled beam underneath, and C3/C2 Cannon on the other wing. The A class power plant is because I end up running a heat issue with those two beams if I'm not careful (something that wasn't a problem with the initial loadout)

Testing it in a combat zone last night I was happy with the results. Against smaller ships you really just need the beams, the only trick is effective use of the cannons against larger ships.

That's part of the reason for this thread, to ask about Cannon use vs Multi-cannon use. Which do you find more effective, and under what circumstances?

Also, how hard do you find it to use a cannon in Fixed mode vs Gimbled? I was considering fixing the C3 Cannon like the C3 Beam is fixed, but am not sure how hard it is to line up a shot in practice (the C2 Cannon would stay gimbled of course, just like the C2 beam).

Any thoughts on Clipper combat and loadouts would be appreciated.
 

Muffindrake

Muffindrake
I really hate gimballed weapons and how vulnerable they make you to chaff, though the clipper practically requires them. I run class 3 PA + class 3 fixed beam laser and 2 medium gimballed cannons in my current pirate clipper and don't intend to change that any time soon. Small ships might be a little hard to deal with with this loadout though (equally difficult with other loadouts if the target runs dual chaff). One of the cannons can be swapped for a gimballed pulse laser, if you really want to.

Hitting PA/fixed cannons comes with practice.
 

mossfoot

mossfoot
I hear you about gimbled weapons, hence my fixed C3 Beam. I was actually considering fixing the C3 Canon as well. That way the heavy hitters (beams for shields, cannons for hull) are chaff-proof and the C2 counterparts are close enough to their big brothers to be useful and bat clean-up if the aim is off.
 

Trafalgar Law

Trafalgar Law
I find the laziness advantage of gimbals far outweighs their disadvantages, especially on the Clipper. Besides you can always cancel your target and shoot normally.
 

mossfoot

mossfoot
Trafalgar Law said:
True, but C3 cannons are all but useless at anything other than point blank range anyway.
Click to expand...

True, but from what I saw (and I realize more testing is required to be sure), simply knowing which direction a ship is moving (via the lead retacle) makes all the difference. It could be point blank, but if it's moving the wrong way your shot might still go wild.

Still, we'll see when I test some more tonight.

I'm curious about a C3 Cannon vs a C3 Plasma Accellerator (or other weapons) too. Something to batter hulls with.
 

CMDR Derrida

C
I'm currently trying to get used to my one fixed large beam...quite tricky and wondering whether to persist or whether it would be easier to just go gimbled. It is taking me longer to kill npc's and it is taking me some time to get shields of smaller ships like couriers down in pvp (the little blighters just won't stand still) but think I'm going to stick with it because I do find battle of the chaff spammers a bit boring :)
 

mossfoot

mossfoot
My current loadout is keeping the fixed beam, but using Class 2 pulse (or possibly burst) gimbled lasers. Makes up for the times I miss with the beam on smaller more nimble ships. Keeping the cannon for hull bashing, though the question is just how effective is it really?

I tried a C3 Fixed Cannon but found it very difficult to tag anything. The gimbled it more reliable and the slightly reduced damage is more than made up for by the increased hits.

I'd be interested in knowing about the C3 Plasma Accellerators, though, and if their damage output makes up for the difficulty to hit.
 

Muffindrake

Muffindrake
It's probably just placebo, but I found fixed cannons or PA a lot easier to hit using the trailing targeting mode. You should give it a try (Controls->Targeting).
 
Last edited:

mossfoot

mossfoot
Muffindrake said:
It's probably just placebo, but I found fixed cannons or PA a lot easier to hit using the trailing targeting mode. You should give it a try (Controls->Targeting).
Click to expand...


I might, but I wish I had some hard stats on cannon damage on hulls to weigh the difficulty/benefit ratio (same goes for the Particle Accelerator)
 

Muffindrake

Muffindrake
Difficulty/benefit ratio? You are shooting cannon balls and flaming cannon balls at dirty imperial slaver ships. What could possibly be more fun than that?

Taken about 25-30% hull with a single large PA hit of a python today. I am not sure how exactly the damage calculaction for it works, it seems a bit random? Could a dev elucidate this?
 

mossfoot

mossfoot
Muffindrake said:
It's probably just placebo, but I found fixed cannons or PA a lot easier to hit using the trailing targeting mode. You should give it a try (Controls->Targeting).
Click to expand...

WOW. What a frickin difference!

I just tried it with the PA and was making consistent hits. The PA's damage is impressive, too. I might stick with a PA for now, and switch back to a Cannon later if my energy needs require it.
 

Lord Vakko

L
Trafalgar Law said:
Besides you can always cancel your target and shoot normally.
Click to expand...
Used this last night in the CZ. Turned my gimballed into fixed. Problem was twofold: 1) the vulture sights aren't very close together so in fixed its hard to hit both lasers unless you're on top of the guy. 2) if you have targeted a subsystem, cancelling the target clears it so you have reestablish your target after the chaff then reselect they subsystem, too.

I think the third option is: keep your target selected and just ram them when they chaff.
 

mossfoot

mossfoot
So this is what I'm flying now...

http://coriolis.io/outfit/imperial_...18aQ==.IwBhrSujSA==?bn=Mossfoot's Clipper Alt

The PA is very impressive - but I'd like to know how it truly compares to a fixed cannon of the same class as well. That energy useage can be a beast. Rather than having a second PA I think a gimbled Cannon will work better cleanup, providing extra damage on full hits and a possible consolation prize on PA misses. The fact they have comparable ammo loads is nice.

Or I might go for 3 lasers and just have the PA as a standalone hull buster.

Now I need to stop experimenting with seeing how much damage it can do and focus on effective use of beams at range and PA/Cannon up close. As it is my fights are taking too long because I'm too focused on trying for PA/Cannon hits.
 

TheCyanDragon

T
My Clipper is set up as a 'blockade runner', in the sense it's a trader that it can reasonably defend itself, yet still outrun what it can't kill. Bear that in mind.

I've had immense luck running the oddball setup of two large turreted Pulse Lasers, and two gimballed multi-cannons. This works wonders against most ships, and while against most player combatants a Clipper's going to have to run anyways, against the new NPC's (Yes, they are a challenge now.) it works as intended. The turreted pulse lasers keep pressure on an enemy, and with a good power distributor it won't stop firing until the target is dead. Placing them on the wings removes the weapon mounting issue, as the turrets have almost a full 240-degree firing arc, across all axises (axis'?) The multi-cannons are a way to chip away at hulls, and while they don't have the single-shot firepower of a larger cannon, they provide consistent damage to everything, from small ships to chipping away at larger ship's modules. It's probably not the most time-effective way to kill something, but add in the sheer speed of the Clipper (342 with 224 tons of cargo, boosting to 435) and it's comparably decent shields and armor, and it's a good way to keep pressure and damage on anything you could ever run across.

The only issue with this setup is NPC Cobra's. Laugh if you will, but an NPC Elite Cobra with two Plasma Accelerators and two Railguns will absolutely ruin you. And it's a scarily common loadout.
 

mossfoot

mossfoot
I tried the turretted weapons. While I like the fact they hit almost anywhere, I have to admit it just doesn't feel right. I'm a hands-on kind of guy and that just doesn't gel with me.

Funny thing is, after all my research and testing into PAC vs Cannons, I've ended up going back to my original loadout - dual C3 Beams and dual C2 Multicannons.

http://coriolis.io/outfit/imperial_...f.Iw18aQ==.IwBhrSujSA==?bn=Mossfoot's Clipper

I might consider dual C2 Cannons, but honestly I think multicannons do more sustained damage and DPS in a furball, and last longer ammo-wise.
 

curses

curses
Quick question about your OP. You said the class B power plant was armoured. What is your evidence for this?
 

mossfoot

mossfoot
curses said:
Quick question about your OP. You said the class B power plant was armoured. What is your evidence for this?
Click to expand...

Its been stated numerous times in the forums - the only thing I don't know for sure is HOW armored it is.

E = Cheapest
D = Lightest
C = Middle
B = Reinforced (heaviest too)
A = Max Performance.

A, C and E all weigh the same
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom