The New Guilds and Player Owned Stations Discussion Thread.

[Tulkas97]

Yes for guilds. This game could us some basic social interaction tools.

Do what as a group? Coordinate what as a group?

You keep asking the same question over and over, and ignoring a reply when you get one.

The answer is whatever you want. That's the fun part about guilds. If you're into that sort of thing you find one that fits your play style. A group of people to run missions with, bounty hunt with, jump into combat zones with, PP goals, spice up CGs (they've been pretty lackluster since PP), pirating, flip systems...etc.

If you think player guilds are only about galactic domination you've spent too much time in/around 'endgame' and the associated clans in other MMOs and have come away jaded. Yes they exist. Yes they're already in this game even with out in game guild support. But most guilds in games I've played have been about the social interaction and ease of grouping with people who share the same goals.

Of course they don't All they know is that big boss Guildie man has said "Create FD account and Vote YES! Or else!"

At this point you're just trolling and not much better than this mystery "big boss Guildie man" you think is out there.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Yes they exist. Yes they're already in this game even with out in game guild support.

At this point you're just trolling and not much better than this mystery "big boss Guildie man" you think is out there.

Thankyou for the confirmation

 

[M00ka]

Yes for guilds. This game could us some basic social interaction tools.

You keep asking the same question over and over, and ignoring a reply when you get one.

The answer is whatever you want. That's the fun part about guilds. If you're into that sort of thing you find one that fits your play style. A group of people to run missions with, bounty hunt with, jump into combat zones with, PP goals, spice up CGs (they've been pretty lackluster since PP), pirating, flip systems...etc.

If you think player guilds are only about galactic domination you've spent too much time in/around 'endgame' and the associated clans in other MMOs and have come away jaded. Yes they exist. Yes they're already in this game even with out in game guild support. But most guilds in games I've played have been about the social interaction and ease of grouping with people who share the same goals.

At this point you're just trolling and not much better than this mystery "big boss Guildie man" you think is out there.

But you can do all of that now, do you really need a tag infront of your Commander's name to do all you listed?
FD has given us wings, do you want bigger wings, 6 man, 8 man 12 man wings? Do you want FD to amend the instancing so you can have more the 16 players per instance?
We all agree that communications could be fixed, that is a given and a separate topic to this. But to be honest, even in games where they had built in Comms, we always used our own TS server, much clearer and you didn't have to be in the game itself to talk.

 

[Captain Willard]

Could care less about guilds, can't see any real use here. On the fence about owned stations.
The only way I would be for player owned stations is if I could destroy it. Why be a pk'r when I could kill stations.

 

[Tulkas97]

But you can do all of that now, do you really need a tag infront of your Commander's name to do all you listed?
FD has given us wings, do you want bigger wings, 6 man, 8 man 12 man wings? Do you want FD to amend the instancing so you can have more the 16 players per instance?
We all agree that communications could be fixed, that is a given and a separate topic to this. But to be honest, even in games where they had built in Comms, we always used our own TS server, much clearer and you didn't have to be in the game itself to talk.

You're right. You can do all that now but it is a royal pain. It would be much easier to just grab a few people out of your in game guild chat room to meet up with rather than hope you find some random people to group with or having to minimize the game and open a forum in your browser.

No on larger instances and wings. The game is peer to peer and simply isn't made for that.

 

[M00ka]

You're right. You can do all that now but it is a royal pain. It would be much easier to just grab a few people out of your in game guild chat room to meet up with rather than hope you find some random people to group with or having to minimize the game and open a forum in your browser.

No on larger instances and wings. The game is peer to peer and simply isn't made for that.

Okay, and I am trying to be helpful here. So really all you want is a more robust (and working) in game communication system - right. Some mechanism that you can talk to those friends that are logged on and on your friends list. Can't see a problem with that, in fact going by other threads here, exactly that has been asked for many times and I hope FDevs are looking for a solution. This was exactly the reason every clan/guild I have ever played with used TS or some other third party software - we found it easier to chat amongst ourselves, even if we weren't in the game at the time.
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Regarding the larger instances and wings - yes I thought that might be a show stopper. Yet isn't that what the Yes to Guilds brigade were asking for, the ability to play together in large groups? At least you tried to explain things and for that I thank you.

 

[Cmdr Corran Antilles]

Okay, and I am trying to be helpful here. So really all you want is a more robust (and working) in game communication system - right. Some mechanism that you can talk to those friends that are logged on and on your friends list. Can't see a problem with that, in fact going by other threads here, exactly that has been asked for many times and I hope FDevs are looking for a solution. This was exactly the reason every clan/guild I have ever played with used TS or some other third party software - we found it easier to chat amongst ourselves, even if we weren't in the game at the time.
.
Regarding the larger instances and wings - yes I thought that might be a show stopper. Yet isn't that what the Yes to Guilds brigade were asking for, the ability to play together in large groups? At least you tried to explain things and for that I thank you.

No it is not what we have ever really asked for. Other than maybe in the context of maybe having a combat zone at a guild station...

What we keep asking for is better communication tools. I think I have literally said this 10 times by now and get ignored everytime. We want to be able to know who all is on in our group. Sometimes I use teamspeak. Sometimes I don't. It also is helpful to have the guild message of the day with what the plan is for things like flipping stations or PP. Guild calendars are also useful.

Bigger wings aren't needed. Guild tools are needed.guild stations are just a cool idea.

 

[Aeternitas]

I remember posting on an older thread about the guild, and I still feel the same way.

A lot of people here probably have had bad experiences in EVE and the like, so I can the initial reaction against guilds/clans/etc., especially since a lot of forum go'ers in these games are generally more solo, casual, and PvE oriented. However, I believe that never having a grouping system will eventually hurt and kill this game, simply because we will all come to a point where the end game is all about solo grinding, and everything just becomes boring and same ol' same ol.

While there needs to be no rush until other core aspects of the game is ironed out (because let's face is, the social interaction in this game, even wings, needs some work, and there's nothing in place yet that could support a community gold sink since there isn't even a trading system between players yet), I believe it would be beneficial to this community in the long-run if the social aspect is boosted.

However, we should avoid a repeat of EVE and make sure corps or anything isn't just a rockin' place for sociopaths and psychopaths. Guilds/clans/etc. should be much smaller scale, meaning they shouldn't be factions completing with the PowerPlay factions. Perhaps they can be a small pirate group holding a lone outpost in an obscure spot in space, or a small mercenary group, bounty hunter association, trader union guild, etc. Guild/clan/etc. specific content can be smaller in scale as well, focusing on providing quality-of-life benefits, on improving player interaction, strengthening group camaraderie, small perks/buffs, and other content that strictly provides more fun and games. Point is, they should be smaller in scale and more tight-knit than in EVE or otherwise. And most importantly, they should be subject to the law of the land or at least some sort of justice system in game. To pretend this is an alternate real life and that there are real risks and consequences to being part of a criminal enterprise. As long as it isn't a gigantic hub for all the griefers to zerg together to make players quit the game, things should work out well.

Or perhaps they can be integrated into what we have in the game. Guilds/clans/whatever we call it could be small squadrons in whatever we pledge loyalty to. Then we can have some real intergalactic space wars, Federation vs Empire, or all of Humanity vs Invading Aliens from another Galaxy, or even smaller faction wars within nations. Guild/clan/etc. is also a great way to keep veterans in the game as the game inevitably gets older and people get burnt out of being an anti-social loner.

Point is, some sort of guild/clan/etc. system would be a great thing for the future of Elite: Dangerous. It's just a matter of giving it some deep thought and implementing it well.

If a social system is added into this game, then I'm confident that the Frontier team will be innovative about it and ensure that the new addition will be a positive feature of the game and to the benefit of the greater ED community.

One interesting thing about this particular poll is that there's two options with guilds, but one with player controlled stations and one without. I'm not opposed to an organization holding stations with players having indirect control (such as via voting or through a regulated governing body), but I'm extremely iffy about direct control, so I'm in favor of the "Guilds but no limited player-owned stations" choice. Although, it's too bad that I'll be with the minority vote there.

 

[Soliluna]

I suspect the reason you're not getting an answer (and probably won't) is that they know very well what they want to organize but don't want to admit it - raids against other guilds so they can import their little empires from WoW or wherever. If all they wanted was better organizing they would call it that. Instead they're effectively asking for their own castles and armies.

Isn't raids against empires essentially what Powerplay is? Also, most of WoW's PVP is within battlegrounds and arenas, not in the world and it certainly doesn't have guild vs guild. Also, WoW has pve servers, toggleable pvp and every kind of guild imaginable which makes it a great example of the diversity of guilds:

-RP Guilds (which come in many varieties)
-PVP Guilds
-Raiding/progression Guilds (raiding instanced content)
-Social guilds
-'leveling' guilds (for the 1-whatever experience)
-National guilds (for native speakers and/or pride)
-Classic guilds (for classic content, typically 60/70)
-Age biased guilds (20+,30+ etc)
-Female only guilds
-Banking guilds (because guilds have bigger banks and some people are wealthy)
-Alt guilds (for peoples alternate characters)
-Friends and Family guilds
-Reboot guild (players who start again often make a guild with other like minded people)

And it remains a great game without guilds too, with guilds not being required at all to satisfy the eclectic tastes of its hugely diverse community. WoW has so much hand holding and has meted out most of the ways for people to grief each other so, you don't get what you are speaking of really at all.

Are you thinking of EVE?

Anyway I couldn't care for guilds. But the UI for comms needs improvements and two birds, one stone and all that.

Nothing wrong with providing better tools when it's a simple implementation like being discussed at the moment.

Not by me, but the question has been answered several times - on the last few pages alone.

 

[Faybs]

More like we thought the answer was pretty obvious given that there are a bunch of things you can do in the game as wings...Or people like playing with other players...apparently you think wanting to play with others is evil or something....

Nice attempt at a diversion. Voice comms and friend lists are already ingame and you are not asking for those to be improved; you're asking for guilds. What does a guild give you that a friends list doesn't? faction tags and the ability to have dozens or hundreds of "friends" you've never heard of. Add the OP's request for player owned bases and it's pretty clear that what you want is turf wars. It's pretty much impossible to do that with the game as it stands now, but force everyone to wear a uniform and then it's easy.

 

[VladtheImpaler]

I remember posting on an older thread about the guild, and I still feel the same way.



One interesting thing about this particular poll is that there's two options with guilds, but one with player controlled stations and one without. I'm not opposed to an organization holding stations with players having indirect control (such as via voting or through a regulated governing body), but I'm extremely iffy about direct control, so I'm in favor of the "Guilds but no limited player-owned stations" choice. Although, it's too bad that I'll be with the minority vote there.

Yeah. It can get pretty nuanced.

What I would imagine is that FD would come up with the best solution. Or maybe they could do an official poll on it.

 

[Faybs]

Isn't raids against empires essentially what Powerplay is? Also, most of WoW's PVP is within battlegrounds and arenas, not in the world and it certainly doesn't have guild vs guild. Also, WoW has pve servers, toggleable pvp and every kind of guild imaginable which makes it a great example of the diversity of guilds:

-RP Guilds (which come in many varieties)
-PVP Guilds
-Raiding/progression Guilds (raiding instanced content)
-Social guilds
-'leveling' guilds (for the 1-whatever experience)
-National guilds (for native speakers and/or pride)
-Classic guilds (for classic content, typically 60/70)
-Age biased guilds (20+,30+ etc)
-Female only guilds
-Banking guilds (because guilds have bigger banks and some people are wealthy)
-Alt guilds (for peoples alternate characters)
-Friends and Family guilds
-Reboot guild (players who start again often make a guild with other like minded people)

And it remains a great game without guilds too, with guilds not being required at all to satisfy the eclectic tastes of its hugely diverse community. WoW has so much hand holding and has meted out most of the ways for people to grief each other so, you don't get what you are speaking of really at all.

Are you thinking of EVE?

Anyway I couldn't care for guilds. But the UI for comms needs improvements and two birds, one stone and all that.

Nothing wrong with providing better tools when it's a simple implementation like being discussed at the moment.

Not by me, but the question has been answered several times - on the last few pages alone.

Powerplay is an attempt at the idea of guilds, but all the "guilds" are factions under the control of FD and whose power is handled by a fixed set of rules (this is how you support, this is how you undermine, you get nothing for destroying an unaffiliated starship) rather than by mob rule. That makes it possible for someone to completely ignore powerplay and be unaffected, and also prevents high school drama by putting an NPC in the role of guild chief. If instead of powerplay we had WoW style guilds, instead of being able to buy slaves in Torval space and selling them for a fat profit in a Delaine exploited black market, you'd have people belonging to the Torval and Delaine guilds who'd shoot each other on sight.

EDIT: I completely agree that communication tools could be drastically improved, especially so PP factions can coordinate with each other in private. But OP was asking about guilds, which is a whole other thing, especially when you consider that ED doesn't have a PvP flag and the entire galaxy is a "PvP zone". Also, a lot of the things you mention (guild for women, people 30+) are already handled by ED in the form of private groups like Mobius.

 

[Cmdr Corran Antilles]

No power play is not guilds...iit is the turf wars you are whining about.

- - - Updated - - -

Nice attempt at a diversion. Voice comms and friend lists are already ingame and you are not asking for those to be improved; you're asking for guilds. What does a guild give you that a friends list doesn't? faction tags and the ability to have dozens or hundreds of "friends" you've never heard of. Add the OP's request for player owned bases and it's pretty clear that what you want is turf wars. It's pretty much impossible to do that with the game as it stands now, but force everyone to wear a uniform and then it's easy.

Have you tried entering 100 people into your friends list so you can know when your group members are on? Does that sound fun? And you have to do it everytime there are new members. Then typing the same missive to 5 people to see if they want to win up...the current tools are useless.

As to turf wars...have you noticed this new thing in the game called power play? That would be your evil turf wars. Not guilds you fear so much.

 

[Zplintz]

In the thread there is a particularly ingenious solution. When someone plays solo, they still show up in the normal universe with everyone in open. BUT they are a different color on the radar. They can't be targeted or anything. They can still chat with open players too!

Just think how more alive the universe would be!

Why would having players on the radar that you can see but cannot touch make the game more alive?

Personally, I agree with 777Driver. Player/group owned outposts (whether in space or on a planetary surface) makes a lot of sense but owning a station is probably a step too far.

 

[M.E.A.T]

Well, my ideal "guild" for Elite is partially implemented in ED, which is Power Play (NPC controlled guild). However, we still lack a way to organize and communicate effectively in-game. The mechanics of controlling/expanding/undermining could be tweaked and improved, which i'm not going to touch that since we have plenty of threads on that subject with nice ideas already.

Player owned Station was confirmed by FD that its not going to happen couple of times, but there might be a way around it.
People could pledge their allegiance to the "Minor Faction" instead of major powers that we have in Power Play; and have social tool to communicate, vote leader, kick out member that pledged to the same minor faction.

Now, the mechanics for flipping systems and spreading influence of the minor faction is already in the game . FD can just implement the PP elements such as weekly salary, but make it associated with the number of the systems their minor power control (or any other meaningful way). Technically, NPC still own the stations.

When you enter a system that controlled by a player to reduce Player minor faction influence (carry a mission to reduce influence of that faction, or carrying weapons to support opposition faction in war time, or killing local system security) you will be forced into open play (or these action will not have effect if you play in solo).

Also, if FD implement player own hangar/module storage, then they can make it rental for the players by default, but buyable for the players in the station/outpost owned by minor faction that player belongs to.

FD has shown us that they support group play with the introduction of Wings, Power Play, Galnet news promoting events of player groups, etc. I think FD just need to tweak it, using the mechanics that already in the game.

 

[Faybs]

Well, my ideal "guild" for Elite is partially implemented in ED, which is Power Play (NPC controlled guild). However, we still lack a way to organize and communicate effectively in-game. The mechanics of controlling/expanding/undermining could be tweaked and improved, which i'm not going to touch that since we have plenty of threads on that subject with nice ideas already.

Player owned Station was confirmed by FD that its not going to happen couple of times, but there might be a way around it.
People could pledge their allegiance to the "Minor Faction" instead of major powers that we have in Power Play; and have social tool to communicate, vote leader, kick out member that pledged to the same minor faction.

Now, the mechanics for flipping systems and spreading influence of the minor faction is already in the game . FD can just implement the PP elements such as weekly salary, but make it associated with the number of the systems their minor power control (or any other meaningful way). Technically, NPC still own the stations.

When you enter a system that controlled by a player to reduce Player minor faction influence (carry a mission to reduce influence of that faction, or carrying weapons to support opposition faction in war time, or killing local system security) you will be forced into open play (or these action will not have effect if you play in solo).

Also, if FD implement player own hangar/module storage, then they can make it rental for the players by default, but buyable for the players in the station/outpost owned by minor faction that player belongs to.

FD has shown us that they support group play with the introduction of Wings, Power Play, Galnet news promoting events of player groups, etc. I think FD just need to tweak it, using the mechanics that already in the game.

That sounds reasonable - you pick a minor faction and make sure it thrives by doing missions for it. Add to the game tools to communicate with other CMDRs within the minor faction (available when you become Friendly with the faction, they go away when you become Hostile) and the existing minor faction expansion and collapse mechanisms take care of the rest. CMDRs who are friendly with the faction get bonuses, but they can choose not to pledge to it (pledged CMDRs get better bonuses), and everything runs around the bulletin board so anyone can contribute in solo or open. For those wanting PvP, "kill x enemies" missions can exist targeting CMDRs pledged to a rival minor faction. Since membership hinges around faction standing, there's no need to kick anyone off the island - players actions will speak for themselves. There's also no need for a leader unless players pledged to a specific minor faction want one, and that leader's power will be limited because he or she doesn't control the faction standing of other CMDRs or the bulleting board - the leader's role will be chief strategist, not tinpot dictator . Boom, guilds done the Elite way.

Edit: Thinking about it some more... what better bonuses can pledged CMDRs get? They could get a small percentage of all money flowing through the starport (would have to be small, starports aren't cheap to run!). They could also have better control over the fate of the faction by voting to divert some of the money they would have gotten into subsidizing some commodity (eg instead of everyone getting 5% of all money flowing through the starport, we all get 3% and the rest goes into subsidizing Beryllium so it's cheaper here and more traders buy it, so we get more cash overall) or some activity (we get less salary but bounties pay 10% more to attract bounty hunters and get more money overall), they could also vote to get more cash for themselves and strategically game commerce by taxing specific commodities. They can also vote on what's illegal and whether the starport has a black market. As the minor faction grows, "the starport" would turn into "all the starports our minor faction controls". Savvy guilds will work with each to set up profitable AB loops for traders between their factions. This way a group of players could grow the Law Party of LHS Middle of Nowhere to something with similar size and properties as a galactic power. I think as a side effect it might also get more people into open, especially if cooperating minor factions set up bounty hunter havens at the same time as good AB loops.

 

[FuzzySpider]

Problem is people like you are making playing our way more difficult. Our way of play would be made significantly easier and more fun if we had tools to communicate with the people we want to play with. Us having those tools will do you no harm.

You have reddit. The fact that reddit was used so effectively to skew this poll so much is proof that there are already methods used to communicate about the game to groups of like-minded players.

I used to be all for a powerplay specific communication channel in-game. Whilst I still don't object to the idea I no longer feel it necessary or worth any development time. Such communication is already happening.

 

[Tulkas97]

You have reddit. The fact that reddit was used so effectively to skew this poll so much is proof that there are already methods used to communicate about the game to groups of like-minded players.

I've read through maybe 1/4 of the thread, so forgive me if I missed this but are some saying the poll is skewed because:

1. People that play this game but decided to stay away from the official forums in the past signed up to vote in a poll on an issue they care about.

Or

2. People think a reddit hoard that's never played the game are signing up to vote.


If 1 that's just plain silly. If 2 I have a tin foil hat to sell you.

 

[VladtheImpaler]

I've read through maybe 1/4 of the thread, so forgive me if I missed this but are some saying the poll is skewed because:

1. People that play this game but decided to stay away from the official forums in the past signed up to vote in a poll on an issue they care about.

Or

2. People think a reddit hoard that's never played the game are signing up to vote.


If 1 that's just plain silly. If 2 I have a tin foil hat to sell you.

I believe #1. People on this reddit post say that's exactly what they did. There is a large number of people who never post on FD forums. To say that people who don't play skewed the poll is a bit ridiculous.

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDange...ficial_forum_poll_on_guilds_and_player_owned/

 

[Darkminded]

Player owned station are like SimSpaceStation that could be a parallel Game in the universe, and you know what i would pay good money for that David !