The New Guilds and Player Owned Stations Discussion Thread.

[FuzzySpider]

I've read through maybe 1/4 of the thread, so forgive me if I missed this but are some saying the poll is skewed because:

1. People that play this game but decided to stay away from the official forums in the past signed up to vote in a poll on an issue they care about.

Right!

Because going off to other communities, telling them "Hey! Look at this poll you have to go vote in now!" surely doesn't skew the result does it?

The entire point of a poll is to get a random sample which is representative of the wider demographic.

What has happened here, at best, is that people with a specific interest in this have come in large numbers, thus destroying the value of said poll by making it unrepresentative.

Let's say that there was a vote on, for example, having dog-only ares in public parks. The city government opened the poll in the hopes of getting a randomized view of public opinion, but a bunch of dog-lovers all find out and organize it so they become the main group of voters. That's what has happened here, and if you think this poll is worth the kb of bandwidth at this point it isn't me who is silly.

 

[VladtheImpaler]

Right!

Because going off to other communities, telling them "Hey! Look at this poll you have to go vote in now!" surely doesn't skew the result does it?

The entire point of a poll is to get a random sample which is representative of the wider demographic.

What has happened here, at best, is that people with a specific interest in this have come in large numbers, thus destroying the value of said poll by making it unrepresentative.

Let's say that there was a vote on, for example, having dog-only ares in public parks. The city government opened the poll in the hopes of getting a randomized view of public opinion, but a bunch of dog-lovers all find out and organize it so they become the main group of voters. That's what has happened here, and if you think this poll is worth the kb of bandwidth at this point it isn't me who is silly.

This is all correct and good for pollsters. We are video game fans. How would you have conducted the poll?

And even though we can't tell what the real percents are because of self selection, I would say it's safe to say the majority want guilds and a large amount want player stations.

 

[FuzzySpider]

And even though we can't tell what the real percents are because of self selection, I would say it's safe to say the majority want guilds and a large amount want player stations.

That's exactly what it isn't safe to say, for the reasons given the post you quoted.

The poll is utterly worthless at this point and can't be used for anything.

 

[leetd00d]

First time I witness a highjacked poll. Unbelievable.

 

[VladtheImpaler]

That's exactly what it isn't safe to say, for the reasons given the post you quoted.

The poll is utterly worthless at this point and can't be used for anything.

Even if I had posted the poll just on FD forum and not made posts on reddit, it would still be self selection. But what self selection does is make the margins of error bigger. The way you would like it done is not possible.

And all the anti-guild people were telling me that a poll had been done earlier and I was wasting my time. So now that this poll comes out different (a year later and a lot more people) now it's useless because of non-randomized selection.

I'll ask you again. How would you have done it different?

 

[Stigbob]

I can't believe this has happened!

Fixed it for you :

 

[Hellhawk666]

...
People could pledge their allegiance to the "Minor Faction" instead of major powers that we have in Power Play; and have social tool to communicate, vote leader, kick out member that pledged to the same minor faction.

Now, the mechanics for flipping systems and spreading influence of the minor faction is already in the game .

I agree. There are mechanics already in place that have not achieved their full potential and could work admirably as group play frameworks without instituting "guilds" as they exist in other games. Minor faction support, or player factions that function in the same way as minor factions, are a prime example.

 

[jabokai]

I'm pretty sure that the "big thing" they talked about for PC and Mac will be guilds. Don't quote me on that.

Conversations people had with the FD staff at Lavecon led them to believe that was not the case. Read that thread for more info.

I believe #1. People on this reddit post say that's exactly what they did. There is a large number of people who never post on FD forums. To say that people who don't play skewed the poll is a bit ridiculous.

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDange...ficial_forum_poll_on_guilds_and_player_owned/

I used to use a motorbike forum a lot and we would regularly vote on issues, in other forums/sites, we couldn't care less about! If one of our members put up a post asking us to help out with a cause, an issue, or even something trivial like this, we'd do it because they were a "friend", and it was no skin off our nose! I'm sure there's an element of that here. If people are truly making accounts to vote on this because they actually care - then why the hell didn't they create an account and talk about this before now?! Most are still not actually talking about it, they just came and voted and moved on. Evidently they cared enough (ie not very much at all) to stay silent on it until they had a pied piper to lead them over.

 

[M.E.A.T]

<snip> Edit: Thinking about it some more... what better bonuses can pledged CMDRs get? They could get a small percentage of all money flowing through the starport (would have to be small, starports aren't cheap to run!). They could also have better control over the fate of the faction by voting to divert some of the money they would have gotten into subsidizing some commodity (eg instead of everyone getting 5% of all money flowing through the starport, we all get 3% and the rest goes into subsidizing Beryllium so it's cheaper here and more traders buy it, so we get more cash overall) or some activity (we get less salary but bounties pay 10% more to attract bounty hunters and get more money overall), they could also vote to get more cash for themselves and strategically game commerce by taxing specific commodities. They can also vote on what's illegal and whether the starport has a black market. Savvy guilds will work with each to set up profitable AB loops for traders between their factions. This way a group of players could grow the Law Party of LHS Middle of Nowhere to something with similar size and properties as a galactic power.

I did consider on proposing something similar, but then we are not running or owning the starport/ station. Therefore, it would make more sense that the rewards we get are in form of salary, and the salary is to be increased with every system our minor faction is spread to (or something like that).

Also, i would rather have solo player locked out from this feature, i.e., solo play has no effects on the influence of any factions in the system controlled by the player pledged faction, i.e., solo player can still make impact to the minor factions during the expansion phase (either support or against). Once the system is controlled by player supported minor faction, if other player want to go against it then they have to PvP in the open. I think that's fair enough.

 

[VladtheImpaler]

Conversations people had with the FD staff at Lavecon led them to believe that was not the case. Read that thread for more info.



I used to use a motorbike forum a lot and we would regularly vote on issues, in other forums/sites, we couldn't care less about! If one of our members put up a post asking us to help out with a cause, an issue, or even something trivial like this, we'd do it because they were a "friend", and it was no skin off our nose! I'm sure there's an element of that here. If people are truly making accounts to vote on this because they actually care - then why the hell didn't they create an account and talk about this before now?! Most are still not actually talking about it, they just came and voted and moved on. Evidently they cared enough (ie not very much at all) to stay silent on it until they had a pied piper to lead them over.

According to video game lore, there is a silent majority of players that never use the forums. Or only read posts. This was used against this poll earlier, but now that the results have changed, now people are incredulous. Those players saw the thread on here or the threads on reddit and signed up to vote.

What I would love to know from a mod is how many sales of the game compared to how many people are registered on the forum.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Also, i would rather have solo player locked out from this feature, i.e., solo play has no effects on the influence of any factions in the system controlled by the player pledged faction, i.e., solo player can still make impact to the minor factions during the expansion phase (either support or against). Once the system is controlled by player supported minor faction, if other player want to go against it then they have to PvP in the open. I think that's fair enough.

Please keep discussions on the three game modes to the relevant thread or posts may be moved or deleted as off-topic.

 

[VladtheImpaler]

Articles on the silent majority.

http://freebeacon.com/blog/gamergate-film-criticism-sports-reporting-and-the-silent-majority/

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/editorial/38425/burden-of-the-silent-majority

 

[Faybs]

I did consider on proposing something similar, but then we are not running or owning the starport/ station. Therefore, it would make more sense that the rewards we get are in form of salary, and the salary is to be increased with every system our minor faction is spread to (or something like that).

Also, i would rather have solo player locked out from this feature, i.e., solo play has no effects on the influence of any factions in the system controlled by the player pledged faction, i.e., solo player can still make impact to the minor factions during the expansion phase (either support or against). Once the system is controlled by player supported minor faction, if other player want to go against it then they have to PvP in the open. I think that's fair enough.

If you look more closely, the money used to influence the price of commodities etc comes out of your salary This would be basically the Law Party saying "thank you, here's some cash is for your services" and the pledged cmdrs as a group investing some of that into the local stock market. As far as open vs solo, FD has already made their stance clear and besides I believe it doesn't matter - if 50% of players supporting any given faction are playing solo, most probably 50% of players supporting any other given faction are also playing solo. It all evens out in the end.

 

[Taimaru]

I think there should be a different multiple-choice poll with the individual Guild type mechanics instead of the blanket Want / Don't Want Guilds poll.

As an example I would vote for:-

+ Better Group communications
+ Better Group management
+ Guild Open Mode

I would not vote for:-

- Visible Group/Guild tags
- Guild owned stations
- Guild owned regions of space
- Guild economy / rewards

 

[Cosmo]

Fixed it for you :

View attachment 50100

You're mad that the majority of Elite fans who voted want Guilds and Player Owned Stations. Many of which are new fans from Steam.

Fixed it for you: You mad bro?

http://wildhunt.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/you-mad-bro-.jpg

View attachment 50101

 

[Mohrgan]

Do you see? It can, and does, go from 'we just want to communicate' to 'and the station can pay me a salary' in only a couple of pages in a far away discussion. The creep is a serious and unaddressed issue. Introducing a guild mechanic would be a straight line to guild only content, and system occupations. Both contrary to what Elite is as a game. Once the Mob wins, it doesn't get humble. The tenor of this discussion should inform us on how it could/would be in game. I hope FD suprizes us all and settles this with a comprehensive Comm's tool, for all. A system that takes the 'we can't organize in game' issue off the table.

 

[jabokai]

According to video game lore, there is a silent majority of players that never use the forums. Or only read posts. This was used against this poll earlier, but now that the results have changed, now people are incredulous. Those players saw the thread on here or the threads on reddit and signed up to vote.

Or, are people who don't really give a damn but are voting for the hell of it, as we used to do on the bike forum I mentioned.

To be fair I'm sure there's a mix of all the things people have mentioned, including you.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I've read through maybe 1/4 of the thread, so forgive me if I missed this but are some saying the poll is skewed because:

1. People that play this game but decided to stay away from the official forums in the past signed up to vote in a poll on an issue they care about.

Or

2. People think a reddit hoard that's never played the game are signing up to vote.


If 1 that's just plain silly. If 2 I have a tin foil hat to sell you.

You have not read 1/4th of the thread.

Either that or you're terrible at reading comprehension

 

[Cosmo]

Or, are people who don't really give a damn but are voting for the hell of it, as we used to do on the bike forum I mentioned.

Or, the people who really want Guilds and Player Owned Stations finally came out of the woodwork and voted against the old-school single-player Elite gamers who dislike true MMO and sandbox features.

 

[jabokai]

Or, the people who really want Guilds and Player Owned Stations finally came out of the woodwork and voted against the old-school single-player Elite gamers who dislike true MMO and sandbox features.

Like I said in the bit you didn't quote - "To be fair I'm sure there's a mix of all the things people have mentioned, including you."