The New Guilds and Player Owned Stations Discussion Thread.

[Agony_Aunt]

Or, the people who really want Guilds and Player Owned Stations finally came out of the woodwork and voted against the old-school single-player Elite gamers who dislike true MMO and sandbox features.

Perhaps, but why were they in the woodwork to start with? I mean, the open vs solo proponents certainly haven't been shy about making their opinions known for months now, and i'd guess the pro-guild and station ownership types are also pro-open only as well. I mean, what is the point of having guilds and stations if people can laugh at you, give you the middle finger, while flying past your blockade in solo or group mode?

 

[Stigbob]

You're mad that the majority of Elite fans who voted want Guilds and Player Owned Stations. Many of which are new fans from Steam.

Fixed it for you:

Nope, I made a joke which was intended as funny and friendly with VladtheImpaler, which he liked (in fact he repped it). There was no sinister hidden message it was just intended to be a giggle.

Stop projecting.

 

[PiLhEaD]

...And even though we can't tell what the real percents are because of self selection, I would say it's safe to say the majority want guilds and a large amount want player stations...

If you mean that the majority of those who expressed an opinion on this poll, one already accepted as skewed and therefore not representative, then you are correct.

If you mean that the majority of the ED community want guilds, then you only have to look at the earlier poll to see that this is not the case.

FDev have already said no to player-owned stations, and gee-whizz, we'd all be dead before anyone could afford to buy one in any event.

As for guilds, in and of themselves, I could care less, and bolting on yet more power-play-alike functionality to ED would feel like wasted effort as, let's be honest, PP hasn't exactly gone down a storm so far!

Please also bear in mind that these forums, on their very busiest day, represent less than one half of one percent of the ED player base.

How would I have done this poll, or in fact any poll wants the game to change? Random selection from ED's email database, pick a decent sample size (iro 50k), and email a one-time link for voting. (Impractical maybe, but I suspect someone would ask.)

Whilst all polls are by their nature self-selecting, any valid poll requires a random sample-set, something that this poll does not have - for example you wouldn't poll people outside Waitrose and ask them if they used Waitrose.

 

[VladtheImpaler]

Or, the people who really want Guilds and Player Owned Stations finally came out of the woodwork and voted against the old-school single-player Elite gamers who dislike true MMO and sandbox features.

My theory is they marketed this game as an MMO and that's a lot of the playerbase that has bought the game.

The original poll was done over a year ago with a small amount of people. Now with 600,000-700,000 commanders, the old poll does not still represent where we are today.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Or, the people who really want Guilds and Player Owned Stations finally came out of the woodwork and voted against the old-school single-player Elite gamers who dislike true MMO and sandbox features.

True MMO!

Are you a Scotsman?

 

[M00ka]

Or, the people who really want Guilds and Player Owned Stations finally came out of the woodwork and voted against the old-school single-player Elite gamers who dislike true MMO and sandbox features.

.
Ah there was a disturbance in the force last night, 100's of players who have never posted on the forums (and maybe never even visited the forums) suddenly felt a strong desire to go to somewhere they haven't been before, create an account and vote - yet not bother to leave a comment .....
.
Truly mystical I say, something from the Twilight Zone

 

[VladtheImpaler]

If you mean that the majority of those who expressed an opinion on this poll, one already accepted as skewed and therefore not representative, then you are correct.

If you mean that the majority of the ED community want guilds, then you only have to look at the earlier poll to see that this is not the case.

FDev have already said no to player-owned stations, and gee-whizz, we'd all be dead before anyone could afford to buy one in any event.

As for guilds, in and of themselves, I could care less, and bolting on yet more power-play-alike functionality to ED would feel like wasted effort as, let's be honest, PP hasn't exactly gone down a storm so far!

Please also bear in mind that these forums, on their very busiest day, represent less than one half of one percent of the ED player base.

How would I have done this poll, or in fact any poll wants the game to change? Random selection from ED's email database, pick a decent sample size (iro 50k), and email a one-time link for voting. (Impractical maybe, but I suspect someone would ask.)

Whilst all polls are by their nature self-selecting, any valid poll requires a random sample-set, something that this poll does not have - for example you wouldn't poll people outside Waitrose and ask them if they used Waitrose.

And how was the earlier poll conducted?

 

[Snarfbuckle]

Owned stations?

First of all, it's a bit early for that wiht all other parts that needs balancing and suchh.

And STATIONS? Outposts I could agree on but far more limited since they are not supposed to be a cash cow but rather a time and money sink.

Player owned outpost
-Requires weekly supplies like fortification to keeep working (Money and time sink)
-Allows refuelling of ships as a port in the storm if explorers want to put a station far, far away.
-Allows PLAYERS to put up a mission and deposit money as a reward for that mission (money sink for one, profit for someone else)

And that's all that is needed, a pitstop.

 

[Mephane]

Reasons why guilds and player owned stations would be great:

Right after the game finishes loading from logging in, my pilot hits the light switch to his left. The pitch black darkness surrounding my ship is slowly lit up by a parade of flickering fluorescent lights. The chipped paint of my Python reveals the worn travels she's gone through. What was a completely dark hangar is now a gritty, grimy, and gray jumble of station parts thrown together. Small clouds of atmosphere slowly drift through the zero-g environment.

A burst of air coughs out of the rickety vents as I hit the return to surface button. Air is sucked out with great force as the air seal is broken, not having installed an atmosphere shield yet. My D-class hangar bay creaks under the massive weight as it propels me to the surface. A long launch tunnel comes into view, with a small rectangle opening just big enough for a medium ship. As my asteroid hangar slowly spins I take a moment to watch the sun rise above the gas giant's swirling storms in the distance.

"Commander Vincent, hey man. We need to go now!" a voice awakens me from my stupor. It's one of my guildmates. "I just got a high paying mission and need your help, we only need one more for a full wing!".
I push to talk a quick reply. "Roger, lets do this." I navigate through comms and wing up, and set a course to his current system without opening the galaxy map. Time to launch.

A large smile stretches across my face as I hit the launch button. "Preparing to launch in 5..." electric magnets begin to purr beneath me "4...3...2...1!" The magnets have reached a deafening crescendo hum.
"LAUNCH!" I'm stuck to the back of my chair as a massive boom from the electrocatapult accelerates me to over 500 m/s. Streaks of light which were once the docking nav lights race past me in seconds and suddenly I'm outside of my station. A thunderous boost from my thrusters signals my station to lock itself up as I fly out of mass lock range.

As I look back at my station in my rear view camera fixated below my scanner, I receive one last comms from my station: "Fly safe, commander."
And then, that beautiful voice reaches my ears. "Ready to engage. 4, 3, 2, 1..."

Nice story, except that at no point was it necessary for you to own the station at all to experience this, neither would guilds be required for your friends to contact you.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

The original poll was done over a year ago with a small amount of people. Now with 600,000-700,000 commanders, the old poll does not still represent where we are today.

That is a fair comment, although i'd change that "does not" to "might not"

 

[Faybs]

Nice story, except that at no point was it necessary for you to own the station at all to experience this, neither would guilds be required for your friends to contact you.

Yep. He could have done all that even in 1.0, assuming the buggy instancing worked.

 

[VladtheImpaler]

Here is the original poll. It was done the same way!

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=8368&highlight=guilds

 

[Space Sniper]

Your poll is a little bias, what about "No guilds, player stations allowed". There is a load of room for everyone to have one station each. I don't see how guilds will work, that will be a big overhaul to the way we communicate and will be pretty useless since there is only so many people in each instance.

I think your forgetting that there is a cap on how many people are in each instance, its not a large number by any means. Unless that's been changed, I don't think you will ever see guilds. Frontier has already decided what they are going to put into the game, you have next to no chance to getting this put into the game. I don't even think we will get player stations, if it wasn't said they were putting it in kickstarter, it aint happening. Just being realistic.

 

[VladtheImpaler]

Your poll is a little bias, what about "No guilds, player stations allowed". There is a load of room for everyone to have one station each. I don't see how guilds will work, that will be a big overhaul to the way we communicate and will be pretty useless since there is only so many people in each instance.

I think your forgetting that there is a cap on how many people are in each instance, its not a large number by any means. Unless that's been change, I don't think you will ever see guilds. Frontier has already decided what they are going to put into the game, you have next to no chance to getting this put into the game. Just being realistic.

My apologies. I did not think anyone would choose that option. I messed up...

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

If you think Frontier can't see through fixed polls, well ...

[video=youtube;biXnwOMznkg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biXnwOMznkg[/video]

 

[Whiterose]

I think we need to involve the electoral commission with some independent observers. People also need to bear in mind the postal votes havent been counted yet, and also FIFA have a block vote of 500, and I know which way they are going to vote as I have bribed them.

 

[VladtheImpaler]

If you think Frontier can't see through fixed polls, well ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biXnwOMznkg

And if that is the case, how is the other poll valid?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

And if that is the case, how is the other poll valid?

It isn't.

No internet poll is.

 

[Jypson]

A lot of people play solo to avoid chatting or interacting with other people entirely, not just to avoid being targeted. Some people are simply introverted, shy, or don't want to read "r u a n00b?" when trying to immerse themselves in a game.

Speaking of which, having ships flying around which you arbitrarily can't target, yet can see, because of a game selection is extremely immersion breaking.

Not in favour of any of this.

This exactly. It's not that I'm scared of the big-bad PvP'rs, I just don't want you in my game, period. I don't want to see you, hear you, talk to you, RP with you, nothing. I want it to be my experience, not ours. I do enjoy interacting with you guys out of game though, just not in game.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

imo the bottom line should be what was advertised to actually get the kickstarter funded from the get go. I agree that for some people guilds are a good thing. BUT even this poll shows that for many they are a bad thing.

So the question is now, who are the most important people to service, the people who bought the game knowing guilds were NOT going to be supported but would just like them in there "because reasons" OR the people who possibly only bought into the game and therefore made the game a viable proposition in the kickstarter.

would i have bought this game with guilds in? Well so long as it had the 3 modes, personally yes! (although imo you can bet your left nut that will be the next poll to set up for reddit users once open becomes even more of a graveyard) but I am 100% certain that there are a lot of people - I know a few of them - would would NOT have backed without the promise of no guilds. When you consider how the KS only just squeeked in by a gnats whisker, is it really fair to pull the rug now?

FD / DB has always said ED is the game they want to play, and accepted it may be a niche title not for everyone (which is why they went via KS and self publishing not a major house like EA so they could keep it that way). DB said he is not into guilds. As an American may say..... Do the Math!.

We have already seen a number of players blindly opening fire on any other player either in an opposing PP faction (which is consistent with the "new lore" (whether this is a step in the wrong direction or not for Elite is another topic for another thread), but the thing which 100% confirms to me why guilds are a disaster for open play for the Lone Wolf - a role which is imo central to Elite, are the players who are blindly and without warning opening fire on CMRS who want no part in PP and are not pledged to anyone.

this is living undeniable proof imo that if we get guilds a certain subset of players will try to block of parts of the game in open unless you join their gang and do what you are told. This is imo not the kind of game ED was sold to me. YES I know I can play in private - infact even now i often do! - but imo the goal is to try to make open MORE attractive not less attractive to those playing out of it. (without forcing or giving gamey perks). I think guilds will be the final nail in the coffin of open for many players.