Sarah, it may be time to tone it down a bit.
- Thread starter CMDR Hagglebeard
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What kind of fights is he getting himself into though? Part of the learning curve is understanding what you can't handle. If he's dropping into High Intensity sites, or SSS, or interdicting ships with much better capabilities and higher rating than himself then it's no bad thing that he's being shredded. A rookie pilot in an obsolete machine should not be expecting to ace it in a furball.
If the combat is too much for you, then turn, boost and run.
If you are the hairy chested "I never run from nuthin" type, then you're eventually going to explode. That's not the games problem and certainly not SJA's.
A flight sim where you can beat everything, all the time, would be tedious.
If you are the hairy chested "I never run from nuthin" type, then you're eventually going to explode. That's not the games problem and certainly not SJA's.
A flight sim where you can beat everything, all the time, would be tedious.
To be fair, I think the type 9 needs improvements anyway (not going to talk about this here) but my suggestion (as has been suggested by scores of other people before me) is two fold. First and foremost, npc wingmen! These would allow players to hire a wingman or two for a set period of time/jumps. Imo mechanics should be geared more around escorting transports and not hiring extra wingmen to fight with you in a CZ or RES. The second part is a revamp of the current "pay out" system when trading in wings. This needs to be a slider which would allow the trader and the escort to come to a price they decide is fair.
Well, this is your definition of what a game is and ought to do.
I feel that at the moment killing AI feels a bit like smashing hopeless puppies. Some might like it, some might not.
For me, games where all ennemies are cakewalk has no interest to me. I like game where my skills are challenged and where there is a chance to lose.
What I think would be good is that low/med/high intensity areas translate in danger level.
- low intensity : NPC skill level is comptent on avg, lone big ships or small wings of small ships
- med intensity : NPC skill level is master on avg, small big ship wings, med wings of large ships
- high intensity : NPC skill level is deadly on avg, med wings of bif ships, large wings of small ships
That way, you can kind of know what to expect.
For the systems, hi-sec should be safe, while in Anarchy all bets should be off.
edit : avg ranks and stuff just for illustration purposes.
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I'm sorry, but compared to what I'm currently working on, the current combat AI is real easy.I'm working on loads of upgrades for the higher ranks, have been testing various ships against an Elite Anaconda on my build. Well, I can't beat him.
An improved range of combat capabilities from the AI is great and all, but they really need to be smarter generally, rather than just capable of ruthlessly eviscerating you. As a for instance, I ground up ~300 merits last night in a mostly D-spec clipper on Li Yong-Rui cargo transports and never once lost shields or looked at their pilot's ratings. Now, the system started spawning enforcers after awhile in supercuise, but I only saw one T9 right at the end that was in a wing. IMO, all these transports should run with an equivalent size and skill escort ship after you kill so many in the same system.
NPC's equipment level (in terms of credits cost) should also be in line with their pilot rating. I'm not a great pilot, and when I grab a mostly harmless NPC with 100x more money in turrets than me it doesn't feel fun. (Wound up running from that one. Better part of valor and all.)
And I hope care is given to the assignment of NPCs to wings. Until players (especially ones who prefer Solo) can bolster their own wings with NPCs, being constantly outnumbered is not good for our chances.
Anyway, I hope their non-combat intelligence gets a look too.
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A 'D' rated python in combat?
You are taking a ship only suitable for trading into a fight sir - what do you expect?
Exactly this.
Sarah has finally turned E
into the fun and interesting fight. Solo, private group, or open, the AI is there waiting for you. Time to take it seriously. A D-rated Python is not going to help. Earn those credits, upgrade those ships and take the fight to them. When you can fight Sarah's fight, you have arrived.
SJA responded several times yesterday regarding this topic. Link below for reference.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=165974&page=3
For CZ's I think what may be happening is the initial approach.
Immediate targeting on HICZ approach (spawn).
First thing I do is turn away. Then I choose my faction. Takes the CZ time to spool up and if I plow into the middle, I get multi targeted.
Small ship targeting.
I look for CZ skirt skirmishes that usually comprise of Eagles, Vipers, and Cobras tying up my faction’s ships. As I eliminate the pesky small ships in the periphery, I see my allied ships turning to the main battle. At first I thought I was giving the AI too much credit, but I’ve seen this happening for about 2 weeks now. Not unusual to come across several wounded big ships after I work the periphery.
If I plow in and not eliminate the small fry, I invariably get big ships targeting me. With the new chase feature in, it is difficult to boost out (for a shield recharge) if I’m right in the middle. The AI follows you. Had a funny incident where I was followed by 2 Anacondas. Death by stupidity for me. I could have easily jumped out (had’em out boosted). Hairy Chested and not too smart. (nod and grin to shadragon)
SJA Quote Begin:
Right now (in my build) if I take on an Elite python in a Sidewinder... er... I don't live very long. Like zero chance. They don't mess about so much now (unlike in the public build). To the point and deadly. I will dial this down a bit, but it's nice to know how far I can push it.
Don't worry, it'll all get balanced before I'm done. It's just fun seeing what a huge difference a few tweaks can make. I'm aiming for challenging, not impossible to beat. Still plenty to tweak.
SJA Quote end:
Yields are down for me, I don’t sit till I have 1.2 mill CR Combat bonds anymore (should’ve never been able too), but the fun level and strategy is awesome.
Anyone else experience this recently? (scuse the text wall please)
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=165974&page=3
For CZ's I think what may be happening is the initial approach.
Immediate targeting on HICZ approach (spawn).
First thing I do is turn away. Then I choose my faction. Takes the CZ time to spool up and if I plow into the middle, I get multi targeted.
Small ship targeting.
I look for CZ skirt skirmishes that usually comprise of Eagles, Vipers, and Cobras tying up my faction’s ships. As I eliminate the pesky small ships in the periphery, I see my allied ships turning to the main battle. At first I thought I was giving the AI too much credit, but I’ve seen this happening for about 2 weeks now. Not unusual to come across several wounded big ships after I work the periphery.
If I plow in and not eliminate the small fry, I invariably get big ships targeting me. With the new chase feature in, it is difficult to boost out (for a shield recharge) if I’m right in the middle. The AI follows you. Had a funny incident where I was followed by 2 Anacondas. Death by stupidity for me. I could have easily jumped out (had’em out boosted). Hairy Chested and not too smart. (nod and grin to shadragon)
SJA Quote Begin:
Right now (in my build) if I take on an Elite python in a Sidewinder... er... I don't live very long. Like zero chance. They don't mess about so much now (unlike in the public build). To the point and deadly. I will dial this down a bit, but it's nice to know how far I can push it.
Don't worry, it'll all get balanced before I'm done. It's just fun seeing what a huge difference a few tweaks can make. I'm aiming for challenging, not impossible to beat. Still plenty to tweak.
SJA Quote end:
Yields are down for me, I don’t sit till I have 1.2 mill CR Combat bonds anymore (should’ve never been able too), but the fun level and strategy is awesome.
Anyone else experience this recently? (scuse the text wall please)
I read the OP and I disagree the AI is not to hard, but if your ganged up on then yes you will lose or need to run for it. Would you expect to win 3 against 1 every time? Not at all. Suggestion fly to a combat zone fly out away from the traffic area, pick a side and fly in slowly and pick on one target at a time. Also watch are they harmless or elite? It matters, and the OP didn't say what the capability was for the ones that attacked him. Were they deadly, dangerous or elite, or all harmless?
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At a nav point I can still take out a group of 3, by concentrating on the weakest ships first as I can burn them down and lessen the fire power on me. Never take on the biggest ship first or the small ones will rip you to shreds from behind. Also be ready to run. Another time it was 3 against 1. I saw a Python and it shields were down. So I took it on and ran as soon as it exploded. reason the 2 escorts were ripping me up. I know I didn't take my advice but I only needed one more kill and it had a nice price on it's head. So took it out and ran. Nice 75,000+ credit win and I was gone.
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Calebe
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At a nav point I can still take out a group of 3, by concentrating on the weakest ships first as I can burn them down and lessen the fire power on me. Never take on the biggest ship first or the small ones will rip you to shreds from behind. Also be ready to run. Another time it was 3 against 1. I saw a Python and it shields were down. So I took it on and ran as soon as it exploded. reason the 2 escorts were ripping me up. I know I didn't take my advice but I only needed one more kill and it had a nice price on it's head. So took it out and ran. Nice 75,000+ credit win and I was gone.
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Calebe
Its a fair point, then again there perhaps shouldn't be heaps of Elite ranked ships flying about.
This is exactly why I left Elite in the first place. I could farm conflict zones for hours without ever losing shields.
It was extremely routine and downright boring.
To make it not boring it needs to be tougher, which means there should be an inherent risk of actually losing.. and losing means either you cut losses and RUN or you fight to the end and get blown up.
The entire game shouldn't need to be scaled down to individual preference. Individual preference with regards to the fights comes from NOT picking a fight with NPC's that are too hard for you... e.g. Elite Anacondas, Deadly Vultures et.c.
Sarah a question for you ... a few times recently I've been interdicted and instead of just submitting I fight back and try to evade. however when that fails, and I come out tumbling out of supercruise, it seems that the enemy can get guns on me almost immediately and start firing, before I've gotten control of my ship. Yet I also observe that when I interdict NPCs, when I win the interdiction I come out of SC tumbling as well - I thought that was just standard behavior when you are the interdictOR. SO I guess my question is, how is it that if I'm interdicted, the enemy can be firing on my ship before I've regained control if he should also be out of control for a few seconds?
If you don't have A-graded Python then you shouldn't engage in fights with Deadly or Elite NPC's flying in Pythons but focus on the lower skilled NPC's using smaller and different types of ships.
Simple.
I'm sorry, but compared to what I'm currently working on, the current combat AI is real easy.
You know, you're starting to make me real uneasy. I understand that you want to make an elite anaconda super tough, and it should be. You say you'll have something for everyone as well. Now what's to keep lower skilled pilots from becoming constant fodder for your newly created abominations? I'll be honest, if I'm just doing my own non combat oriented game play activities, and I keep getting jacked by your minions ending up with a slew of rebuys, I don't see my self enjoying the game much longer. I bet the vast majority of casual and semi regular player will feel the same.
I agree with every word.
With A-graded ship such as FDL, Python - battles are to easy now.
One thing that drives me crazy is when an AI is battling against another AI, let's say you have a Vulture and there's 2 Anaconda's fighting it out, and you start shooting at one of them and he turns to fight you leaving the other Anaconda pounding away like all of a sudden you're it's biggest threat.
But other then that, I have no complaints about the AI and it's progress. Keep it coming SJA
But other then that, I have no complaints about the AI and it's progress. Keep it coming SJA
This is valid concern. I hope that AI pirate routine will be tweaked to be less psychotic killers and more actual pirates.
One might want to avoid trying to flee vs an elite pirate clipper. But it will need tweaking.
For PP interdictions, there might be an issue. No idea of what could be done here.
For the other cases, if one dives with a viper head first in a 1 v 3 vs elite/dangerous ships, he deserves to die. IMO.
And, if one has a proper combat ship, usually it is possible to flee thanks to chaff, SCB's and speed.
One might want to avoid trying to flee vs an elite pirate clipper. But it will need tweaking.
For PP interdictions, there might be an issue. No idea of what could be done here.
For the other cases, if one dives with a viper head first in a 1 v 3 vs elite/dangerous ships, he deserves to die. IMO.
And, if one has a proper combat ship, usually it is possible to flee thanks to chaff, SCB's and speed.
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This.
Though I don't get hit at all when I jump into one. Not until I choose a faction which I do after I fly to the edge and I don't get what's hard. I'm coming away with 750,000 credits, on average, each time in my Viper and only then to reload my MC's. Sometimes I get mobbed and have to head home early but that's usually if I'm not paying too much attention.
Having 15 enemy ships gang on you is a cheap way to make the game harder.High intensity CZ should mean more capable AI, not "everybody against you".
Agreed. And I don't take a sidewinder to an SSS. Wouldn't play long if you could. All tactics, nice requirement for a combat zone. Vulture shreks HICZ.