Ship Builds & Load Outs [1.4] Planned changes to powerplant damage

tl;dr version: With the upcoming changes to powerplant damage, the very least we need is more power priorities so that losing some megawatts leads to more gradual ship failure, not sweeping shutdowns of a whole range of subsystems.


So 1.4 will change how damage to the power plant affects the ship:

Something else that came up in conversation with fans is how vulnerable the Anaconda is to having its powerplant shot out. We’re going to change how taking out the powerplant works in the CQC update. There will still be a very small chance of powerplant destruction blowing up the ship, but it will also suffer module malfunctions like the other modules. Specifically it will lose power and will need to be rebooted.

The gist of it:
- Power plant at 0% only has a small chance to cause ship destruction.
- Power plant taking damage reduced power output.

All I read here is that power plant sniping is still the preferred tactic, instead of guaranteeing a faster kill, it now makes the killing easier with the added chance for a fast kill. Why easier?

- Lower power output means some modules will auto-shutdown, according to power priorities.

- Assuming decent power priority settings, the opponent's ship will lose active systems, and more likely than not, and rather sooner than later, something combat-critical will have to give. Especially the combat ships are starving for power all the time already. Just losing a few percent of maximum power could cripple and Eagle, Viper, Vulture and FDL.

- Ships like the Courier, Python and Anaconda will (relatively) benefit from this change because they can be set up to have a few MW spare power that they can lose without causing any trouble.

- Generally, not just for combat builds but anyone who faces the risk of being attacked regularly (= all but the most dedicated explorers who see the ubble once in a while only), the power plant won't be a place to make compromises any more. Like, an efficient multi-purpose Python build with a 6A/7C power plant that just has enough power for everything? Forget it, 7A or gt-eff-o. A trader with a 2A/3A power plant for weight savings and heat efficiency? You already have little more than engines and shields that needs power, losing any of those precious megawatts would could spell an immediate death sentence; instead of just blowing up at powerplant 0%, you end up as a unshielded sitting duck at, say powerplant = 50%.

- This is why I said, instead of faster kills, they will be easier with power plant sniping (as opposed to targetting the ship hull). In the best case, the target still explodes at 0% power plant, in the worse case, it may be a defenseless husk waiting to be destroyed/plundered.

- In a sense, this is a boon to pirates. Their target will now be, 100% of the time, the power plant. Forget about the engines, or the FSD. Just destroy the power plant and thereby turn off all their systems, and shrug of the rare random kill resulting from that.

- Targetting the power plant now becomes the de factor standard for everything that doesn't die in a few hits. Even against a Viper, you'd be better off doing so, because you're likely to force its weapons to shut down, for example, or prevent it from engaging the FSD if it decides to escape.

- Against pilots who have not set any power priorities, it could shut down the entire ship at some point. This will massively exaggerate the disadvantage of inexperienced player in this regard. At the very least, I say this change mandates some form of sensible automatic power priority when a module is bought, i.e. instead of them all starting at priority 1, they would start at a priority according to their importance for survival (e.g. guns > cargo hatch). I am not sure whether or how players are normally educated about power priorities and what to use them for at the moment, but this is a topic that would need emphasize and detailed explanation in the manual.

- Against NPCs, well. I hope they will use power priorities, too. Considering that it is not something that takes lots of practice, and can basically done by anyone mechanically following a simple list (for example engines: 1. shields: 2. guns: 3. KWS: 4. FSD: 5), I would say that power priorities should not be something reserved for the best NPCs only. Maybe Harmless and Mostly Harmless NPCs could still do without, but beyond that, they should all employ decent power priority setups.

- What this change does not address at all, still, is that armour and hull packages still won't help you. The power plant will still receive damage from all directions not blocked off by other modules, and still not benefit from a tougher ship. Shield tanking, SCB spam and power plant sniping will still be king.

In conclusion, I am not sure whether this change may not actually be detrimental to the overall game. You now have to worry about your power output all the time, where the dedicated fighters already have no wiggle room whatsoever. For PvP, things stay mostly the same, except that piracy receives an indirect buff, beyond that, the same tactics will be employed. What will change, mostly, is which ships and loadouts remain viable,
For PvE, it will reduce kill speed against NPCs, which coupled with their better AI in the next update, means that bounties, combat bonds and combat missions would need yet another increase to compensate, lest trading once again becomes the one and only way to decent money.

I would like to state, however, that I do like the idea of power plant damage reducing power output. What I don't like is that we have no way to immediately assess our situation (power output vs consumption, powerplant health) without fiddling with the modules panel, no way to plan ahead or mitigate the effects in the combat ships, and only little possibilities on the ships more generous with power (besides taking the biggest power plant and the least power-hungry guns).

I've got some ideas what could/should be done in addition, to make the situation much better, the gameplay more interesting and more loadouts viable, all the while retaining the upcoming change, which again, is a good idea in principle, but bad for gameplay when done on its own:

- Armour and hull packages shall buff all internal modules (i.e. anything except weapons and utilities) to the same extent they affect the hull.
- The body of all ships becomes able to block damage to modules. Only from specific angles should modules be able to hit, i.e. that one angle where the path through the hull to the module is the shortest, and from anywhere else a laser beam or bullet would only strike the hull. Splash damage from cannons, plasma weapons etc. of course would still apply according to where the projectile hit, how the damage falls off away from the point of impact etc.
- Every ship gets looked at and the power plant (or any other module) moved away from the center of the ship. I don't know whether this is the geometric center or the center of mass, or a manually chosen fixed location, but it is the point where NPCs, gimbals and turrets aim at. Some ships currently have their power plants at this very location, so that it does not even require intentional aiming at the power plant to damage it.*
- The output of power plants and/or consumption of all modules needs to be revisited, so that generally the situation is significantly relaxed in some cases. Power starving cannot be the default mode for combat ships when you must be prepared to lose some of those megawatts when you get damaged.
- We need more than 5 power priorities. Given the upcoming changes, I would like to define more complex setups than we are able to do now. At the moment, there is little more to it than the difference between weapons deployed and not deployed. In the future, there will be a gradual wear on the power output according to power plant damage, and therefore, I want to prepare my power priorities for an equally gradual reaction. I am thinking of something like 100 power priority levels here (technically, the number of individual power consumers would suffice, but 100 will work for everyone and is a nice, round number), so that every weapon, every utility, every single thing that consumes power, can be put into its own priority. For example, atm I have all weapons at priority 3. In the future that would mean I lose all weapons as soon as my power drops below the level required to support them all. Therefore, I want them each on their own priority that when the power drops, at first only a single weapon shuts down, then as further power plant damage is accrued, another weapon is toggled off, then maybe one of the shield boosters, etc.
I understand from a UI perspective, lots of power priorities might be awkward to set up when you only have the arrows, but you don't have to set this up all the time anyway, so spending a few minutes getting everything just right can save your life when due to your planning, even when badly damaged you still have that one multi-cannon running and may be able to grab victory from the jaws of defeat...

(*That said, NPCs, gimbals and turrets should stop aiming for that spot at all times anyway. If a big ship is in my view, but somewhat above me, and the gimbals can't move all the way up to hit that spot, but could still hit some other part of the enemy, more distant from its center - the gimbals often prefer to just disengage and aim forward, because they don't regard the entire bulk of the target, just that one unfortunate coordinate. But just changing the location of the affected modules would already help immensely, and is easier to implement.)
 
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Hopefully there will be a sensible change and modules will be behind armour and only hit when fire at from an appropriate angle.
 
Hopefully there will be a sensible change and modules will be behind armour and only hit when fire at from an appropriate angle.

I guess that really depends on how close the module is to the surface on the ship modules - that could add additional strength/weaknesses between the variety of ships?
 
Would anyone design a space ship with any modules on the outside other than scanners? Basically everything else should be protected by ships skin... I guess
 
I would also suggest that the bulkheads do something more than eat up credits. As things currently stand the bulkheads do not appear to protect modules to any degree. They are like wearing chain mail to a battle where there are more archers than anybody else!
 
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It also means for PVE it will take a lot longer to kill NPCs

Yes, I briefly mentioned it; the combat earning power must be addresses across the board to factor into it this, but it needs so also because of the upcoming AI changes, so I hope they get another rebalance in 1.4 (read: buff).
 
The facts of your analysis are sound, and I also am in favor of this kind of PP design. In fact, I think this is how the Power Plant should have worked all along. One obvious solution to the new sniping regime: I think the PP should have a significantly higher amount of health - at least twice the current value. And power management could start yo be impacted at 50% health. I like your idea that the health of modules should also be increased by the hull armor. Bulkheads cost money and jump range and change the flight characteristics, so they should confer some benefit vs CMDRs as well as NPCs.
 
The easiest and most logical solution is to treat power plant damage like life support failure. If your power plant is destroyed, depending on class get anywhere between twenty to thirty minutes of emergency power before your ship explodes / dies. This is fair as it forces you to withdraw and gives you a fair chance to escape. You could switch off power hungry systems to make this backup lastlonger.
 
I don't see anywhere in that quote where it says that the powerplant will lose a % of its power output based on damage. Just that it will malfunction temporarily with damage, and lose power completely when reduced to 0% (until reboot-repair). Better bulkheads improving module damage resistance is a no brainer though.

I don't remember at the moment, but do damaged but not destroyed thrusters make your ship go slower?
 
Power plants already suffer some loss to power when attacked now. Maybe not in the sense they are being suggested but I have had my power plant shot at...malfunction and stuff turn off. Personally I welcome the change. But as Ben Ryder says..they really need to work on the "hit a module from any angle regardless of whether it is inside or outside the ship" thing. It makes absolutely no logical sense. To argue otherwise is absurdity.

Modules that should get massively increased protection by hulls and hull plating:

Life support, Power plant, Sensors because they are inside the ship and therefore beneath the hull and hull plating

All other modules should get some increased protection for 3 reasons

1. Makes hull plating a more viable option and therefore more people would invest in it.

2. Hull plating is a money sink and FD is always looking for money sinks

3. Even with things like thrusters you are still covering them with extra plating and a lot of the components that would operate the thrusters would be internal.
 
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The easiest and most logical solution is to treat power plant damage like life support failure. If your power plant is destroyed, depending on class get anywhere between twenty to thirty minutes of emergency power before your ship explodes / dies. This is fair as it forces you to withdraw and gives you a fair chance to escape. You could switch off power hungry systems to make this backup lastlonger.

That's actually a good idea where a 7A PP would have more backup power than a 6A and vice versa. http://www.apc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=185 for example, i am sure in a few years time we could easily get more power output from them and stick one of these on an anaconda :D
 
I am not sure whether or how players are normally educated about power priorities and what to use them for at the moment, but this is a topic that would need emphasize and detailed explanation in the manual.

Power priorities are pretty self evident to anyone who pokes around and it doesn't take much trial and error to lean the in and outs of power management. A simple overview should be enough.

Armour and hull packages shall buff all internal modules (i.e. anything except weapons and utilities) to the same extent they affect the hull.

I wouldn't be opposed to something like this.

- The body of all ships becomes able to block damage to modules. Only from specific angles should modules be able to hit, i.e. that one angle where the path through the hull to the module is the shortest, and from anywhere else a laser beam or bullet would only strike the hull.

I don't like this. More granularity in the damage drop off from less than ideal angles would be fine, but high penetration weapons should be able to hit a module from almost anywhere.

- The output of power plants and/or consumption of all modules needs to be revisited, so that generally the situation is significantly relaxed in some cases. Power starving cannot be the default mode for combat ships when you must be prepared to lose some of those megawatts when you get damaged.

Any such change is going to massively favor those who don't take PP damage.

I can count on one hand the number of times my shields have failed in my FDL (or most other ships) and I've flown it in several hundred PvP encounters. I will use every watt of power at my disposal because the odds of taking any hits to my PP are miniscule. Of course, if they do get through, the only modules I really need powered are thrusters and FSD.

I guess that really depends on how close the module is to the surface on the ship modules - that could add additional strength/weaknesses between the variety of ships?

It already is, to a degree.

Try shooting modules out on a Dropship...then try doing the same to an FDL. Night and day difference in how exposed the modules are.

One obvious solution to the new sniping regime: I think the PP should have a significantly higher amount of health - at least twice the current value. And power management could start yo be impacted at 50% health. I like your idea that the health of modules should also be increased by the hull armor.

If simply attacking the hull is the fastest way to ensure a kill 95% of the time, there is little point in subsystem at all.

The easiest and most logical solution is to treat power plant damage like life support failure. If your power plant is destroyed, depending on class get anywhere between twenty to thirty minutes of emergency power before your ship explodes / dies. This is fair as it forces you to withdraw and gives you a fair chance to escape. You could switch off power hungry systems to make this backup lastlonger.

I don't like this. Where is this emergency power coming from? Why can't that system be targeted? If this system has many minutes of such power, why do the capacitors on a distributor weighing several tons only store the equivalent of seconds worth?

I don't see anywhere in that quote where it says that the powerplant will lose a % of its power output based on damage. Just that it will malfunction temporarily with damage, and lose power completely when reduced to 0% (until reboot-repair).

Indeed.

I don't remember at the moment, but do damaged but not destroyed thrusters make your ship go slower?

Only thing I recall having happen to me from thruster damage is losing fight assist during a malfunction then losing thrusters all together at 0%.

they really need to work on the "hit a module from any angle regardless of whether it is inside or outside the ship" thing. It makes absolutely no logical sense. To argue otherwise is absurdity.

The real absurdity is the idea that something as lightly built as most ED spacecraft wouldn't have a hole shot all the way through it and out the other side by any projectile of significant energy.
 
So basically making 'condas and larger ships more op taking away the only one thing small ships can do to try and fight back? The Vulture's purpose is to hit the PP and kill larger ship with his hit/snipe & run tactic. The eagle is nimble to have better positioning and shot placement only to aim at weak spots. Basically all the players who have a larger ship somewhat complain on their ships having a weak spot? Seriously?

Take star wars as an example: The death star is a huge killing machine, but his has only one weak spot: Its power plant. Luke shot that and the thing exploded. Big ships can already mow down smaller ones with the immense firepower they have, but people complain it's too easy for the little vessels to kill them. I could pass damage dropoff from wrong angles, nice idea, but if I blow the reactor bay of your ship you go boom. And so do I if you aim at mine.

If you 'condas pilots have reached a point where you earn millions I don't see the problem in stacking money for rebuy costs. Some players struggle to repay their smaller ships, with a few trading runs big pilots are set.

If they really make that change Frontier will render the game highly unbalanced. Eagle, Vulture, Viper and DBS will be completely useless, big ship's players more op as ever with three simple steps:

1)Shoot all the things.
2)Something didn't die and you have your power plant destroyed? No problem! Just reboot and powerup the ship again.
3)Destroy the little thing who is barely alive to try and shoot you down.

And also, consider CZs:

I get in with my big ship and happily destroy anything without caring and simply rebooting the ship after I take too much PP damage, and go home. Since AI isn't all that smart little ships need to struggle to make credits while bigger ships would farm credits non stop.


What the developers did is correct: The big ship has one and only ONE weak spot for smaller ships to have a chance in fighting back. If you are really that lame that you can't destroy little ants with the strongest ship in the game, you really need to practise more combat.

And then people complain about few players actually using open play. If 'condas and millionaire players get all this power, of course anyone with a smaller ship will be in private or solo play. No one likes its ship destroyed, and of course people will want to play solo to farm credits to get the big ships without engaging any PvP at all. I'd better lock myself in solo and farm for a FdL before heading out in open play or I'll get blown up again and again. This would be the logic. And since it took me a few hours to just get to a decent ship we won't see smaller players or even beginners in open play for a looooong time. If not at all.

Maybe big players only want even more power than what they already have, and do not know how to properly use it. Some balancing issue may be there now, but stripping the ability to kill Goliath at David is just overkill.
 
So basically making 'condas and larger ships more op taking away the only one thing small ships can do to try and fight back? The Vulture's purpose is to hit the PP and kill larger ship with his hit/snipe & run tactic. The eagle is nimble to have better positioning and shot placement only to aim at weak spots. Basically all the players who have a larger ship somewhat complain on their ships having a weak spot? Seriously?

Take star wars as an example: The death star is a huge killing machine, but his has only one weak spot: Its power plant. Luke shot that and the thing exploded. Big ships can already mow down smaller ones with the immense firepower they have, but people complain it's too easy for the little vessels to kill them. I could pass damage dropoff from wrong angles, nice idea, but if I blow the reactor bay of your ship you go boom. And so do I if you aim at mine.

If you 'condas pilots have reached a point where you earn millions I don't see the problem in stacking money for rebuy costs. Some players struggle to repay their smaller ships, with a few trading runs big pilots are set.

If they really make that change Frontier will render the game highly unbalanced. Eagle, Vulture, Viper and DBS will be completely useless, big ship's players more op as ever with three simple steps:

1)Shoot all the things.
2)Something didn't die and you have your power plant destroyed? No problem! Just reboot and powerup the ship again.
3)Destroy the little thing who is barely alive to try and shoot you down.

And also, consider CZs:

I get in with my big ship and happily destroy anything without caring and simply rebooting the ship after I take too much PP damage, and go home. Since AI isn't all that smart little ships need to struggle to make credits while bigger ships would farm credits non stop.


What the developers did is correct: The big ship has one and only ONE weak spot for smaller ships to have a chance in fighting back. If you are really that lame that you can't destroy little ants with the strongest ship in the game, you really need to practise more combat.

And then people complain about few players actually using open play. If 'condas and millionaire players get all this power, of course anyone with a smaller ship will be in private or solo play. No one likes its ship destroyed, and of course people will want to play solo to farm credits to get the big ships without engaging any PvP at all. I'd better lock myself in solo and farm for a FdL before heading out in open play or I'll get blown up again and again. This would be the logic. And since it took me a few hours to just get to a decent ship we won't see smaller players or even beginners in open play for a looooong time. If not at all.

Maybe big players only want even more power than what they already have, and do not know how to properly use it. Some balancing issue may be there now, but stripping the ability to kill Goliath at David is just overkill.

But you forget, skill doesn't matter in ED only price tag's. If their price tag is bigger than my pricetag they expect and demand an easy win and no feeling of having to actually try to be a good pilot in that particular fight. FDev are either blind to the point's you stated or just don't give a care. :rolleyes:
 
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But you forget, skill doesn't matter in ED only price tag's. If their price tag is bigger than my pricetag they expect and demand an easy win and no feeling of having to actually try to be a good pilot in that particular fight. FDev are either blind to the point's you stated or just don't give a care. :rolleyes:


I agree, if they'll do that people will lock themselves into solo play until they get a big ship, so I expect the servers to be pretty empty when 1.4 drops.

I didn't think this would turn into a paid free to play where only the money counts and not the actual skill when playing. And it seems rather stupid to unbalance the game, and make you lose new players. But hey, they are developing a new elite dangerous arcade game for the xbox one first, y'know...instead of focusing on more content on the main game.


Because an arcade space shooter is totally what I paid for. I surely couldn't download some other F2P (/sarcasm off). And then people on the internet call this "space truck simulator" and say that No Man Sky or Star citizen will completely outclass it. This game has a lot of potential, but it's slowly going down the drain for only a thing: "Here come's the moneyyy!"


And the most hilarious this is that all this can be solved with two or three simple things:

1)FDev wants more money? Put some more skins for the ships and cosmetics for the people to buy if they want to customize their ship, you know...like any other famous game does (CS GO *cough cough*). Many people drool over the two new skins. Make more things like name tags on ships, thruster trail colors, shield color, weapon beam color packs... Problem solved.

2) Millionaire commanders complaining about rebuy costs? Reduce them! Or even eliminate it if realism bugs people. Problem= solved.

3)Lazy ass commanders? Simple, you just...actually no. You cant solve that. And sadly, the more lazy people there are, the more this game will be influenced by them.
 
I agree, if they'll do that people will lock themselves into solo play until they get a big ship, so I expect the servers to be pretty empty when 1.4 drops.

I didn't think this would turn into a paid free to play where only the money counts and not the actual skill when playing. And it seems rather stupid to unbalance the game, and make you lose new players. But hey, they are developing a new elite dangerous arcade game for the xbox one first, y'know...instead of focusing on more content on the main game.


Because an arcade space shooter is totally what I paid for. I surely couldn't download some other F2P (/sarcasm off). And then people on the internet call this "space truck simulator" and say that No Man Sky or Star citizen will completely outclass it. This game has a lot of potential, but it's slowly going down the drain for only a thing: "Here come's the moneyyy!"


And the most hilarious this is that all this can be solved with two or three simple things:

1)FDev wants more money? Put some more skins for the ships and cosmetics for the people to buy if they want to customize their ship, you know...like any other famous game does (CS GO *cough cough*). Many people drool over the two new skins. Make more things like name tags on ships, thruster trail colors, shield color, weapon beam color packs... Problem solved.

2) Millionaire commanders complaining about rebuy costs? Reduce them! Or even eliminate it if realism bugs people. Problem= solved.

3)Lazy ass commanders? Simple, you just...actually no. You cant solve that. And sadly, the more lazy people there are, the more this game will be influenced by them.
Most of my XBL friend's who are interested in ED want it to be ballanced to where a skilled pilot in a fighter can beat the biger multi role ship's by haveing more experience amd skill. Granted most are stealth and sim player's which require's more skill and understanding of game's mechanic's than say CoD or HAWX 2....ugh HAWX 2 I hate remembering that one after the original HAWX.
 
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Most of my XBL friend's who are interested in ED want it to be ballanced to where a skilled pilot in a fighter can beat the biger multi role ship's by haveing more experience amd skill. Granted most are stealth and sim player's which require's more skill and understanding of game's mechanic's than say CoD or HAWX 2....ugh HAWX 2 I hate remembering that one after the original HAWX.

Oh well, 1.4 will empty the servers even more it seems since there are already many idiots who hang in the starter systems only to kill newbies with their ships, PowerPlay will go to hell since it's already heavily broken by solo players and once star citizen or no man sky releases all the people will from ED for those.

On me, I grinded the hell out of RES to get into my favourite ship: A vulture. I oufitted it rather nicely, and started open play, since I didn't want to get back in a sidey by being destroyed every time a jerk wants to grief. Guess I'll just go back to solo, the servers are empty anyway.
 
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