Concerning Type-7, Imperial Clipper and Federal Dropship.

Mashchax

M
Today concerning those three ships as clearly something had gone wrong. Let's for now assume trading and trading only. We equip these ships with lowest number class A shields possible and fill the rest with cargo racks. We don't care for anything else.

Type-7 will have class 4A (no class 3 compartment) shields and 216T cargo capacity.
Imperial Clipper will have 3A shields and 240T cargo capacity.

This already brings us to the first conclusion. Imperial Clipper is a better transporter than... Type-7 TRANSPORTER. Yes, it's a bit more expensive. But with those 3-4 extra millions come not only 24T of cargo capacity more (which is kinda a lot in this game) but also you get a ship which is almost double the speed, more than double the armor (216 vs 486 - thanks E: D shipyard), more manouverable and thus overall much safer to trade with.

Of course if you want to you can also equip your Clipper for combat at which it excels very nice (talking PvE here). But that's not the case. Let's talk trading strictly. There isn't currently much sense in buying Type-7. Just make those few extra trade runs and get yourself a Clipper. This kind of imbalance breaks the game as it leaves us with options nobody will chose.

Type-7 is a STRICTLY trading ship so it should reward us with great trading capabilities. You can't really fight in Type-7. You can in Clipper and it's still a better trading ship.

This brings us to the second conclusion. Is Federal Dropship the absolute worst ship in the game? Let's talk trading for now.

Federal Dropship will have class 4A shield generator (too heavy for class 3) and 148T cargo capacity. Holy moly. And this ship is supposed to compete with Imperial Clipper, right? It's the Federation's equivalent. Instead it is worse at trading than both Clipper and Type-7. And it's supposed to be a 'dropship'...

If you want to talk fighting most will probably prefer Clipper as well. It has one less hardpoint but it's hard to tell which options is better. Clipper's 2xM 2xL or Dropship's 4xM 1xL. Clipper is twice the speed of a Dropship. All modules are same classes (thrusters, FSD etc). Dropship only wins in armour but it's 540 vs 486 armour is a slight difference if you compare the speed difference between those two.

I ask you, fellow Commanders - is there anyone here flying Federal Dropship for reasons other than perhaps roleplaying? Cause I find that hard to believe.

It amazes me how amazingly Frontier Devs have replicated the Milky Way and how great the world is. It's insane. It is even more amazing how hard do they find it to make this game playable...
 

Cmdr Cunomaglus

Cmdr Cunomaglus
I won't argue with the points you're making exactly, but I'd ask a question in response; why do we need more than one type of sports car? Why more than one type of gun or toaster or fishing rod or washing machine? Elite was never about the direct progression from Ship A to Ship B to Ship C at which point you win the game, it's about flying the ship you like and doing what you want with it.

Personally I'd like to see another couple of dozen types of ships at least, some better, some worse, some insanely expensive and some ridiculously cheap, just for the variety, without a single thought given to the purely gaming concepts of 'balance' and 'progression'.
 

Greccen

G
Indeed, the clipper gets it all: the looks, the utility and the survivability. Why then even bother flying for example a Type 7 when it has no strength or selling point to fly one?

A Type 7 is a helpless box of cardboard with almost the same price tag and the dropship turns like a whale with a gastric bypass for cargo purposes and has the unconvincing strength of armor in a game where shields are king and people snipe powerplants....

Cmdr Cunomaglus said:
I won't argue with the points you're making exactly, but I'd ask a question in response; why do we need more than one type of sports car? it's about flying the ship you like and doing what you want with it.
Click to expand...

If your favourite sports car has a great concept but a coffee percolator as an engine, chances are you won't be sitting in one.

I'd like to own a dropship, but lack the sole rank progression to get one (another gripe) + why bother when i do stuff way better in another ship? you can roleplay but in a game this grindy it gets way too inefficient
 

PavelKCZ

PavelKCZ
I jumped directly from Asp to Python. Much better way of progress IMHO.

On the other side, Imperial Clipper is a nice ship, I have one too, currently I am outfitting it, just for fun.
 

Vasious

Vasious
Greccen said:
Indeed, the clipper gets it all: the looks, the utility and the survivability. Why then even bother flying for example a Type 7 when it has no strength or selling point to fly one?

A Type 7 is a helpless box of cardboard with almost the same price tag and the dropship turns like a whale with a gastric bypass for cargo purposes and has the unconvincing strength of armor in a game where shields are king and people snipe powerplants....
Click to expand...

Range
Yes, I know, everyone has the 1 jump 2 light second to station trade routes, but of you are not, the Type 7 out ranges the Clipper in the number of jumps it can do.
Yes you can fit a fuel scoop to the Clipper but either is a small scoop that takes a while to process the fuel, or it is a large scoop taking up cargo space.

100+ light year trade runs in Type 7s are so much nicer, like CGs where you have a high supply out of the way

This is what I use -> http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=70X,5QS5QS5Ap5QR3RO0mI0Wg01Q,2-6u8S7_6u4s5K8I,0AA0AA08c08c5Es7Re0JE2Uc
 

Deleted member 94277

D
Yes, there's a lot of unbalance in the ships in ED, but it's nice to have variety. The Federal Dropship is indeed a crappy ship but I'd prefer a crappy ship than no ship.

With that said, regarding the issues the OP has raised, I'd like if trade focused ships had a clear cargo space advantadge over non-trade focused ones, from the early to the late game. Doing rare runs is a pain to me and it's much better to just jump in a Type 6 and run commodities; but trading commodities is also a pain until you get the really big cargo holds of a Type 8 or 9.
 

Vasious

Vasious
veryinky said:
Imperials are getting a new ship in the update, Imperial Eagle, since they don't have enough ships already.
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I wouldn't be surprised if the Eagle Mk.III is not rank locked

1) The Courier is Master rank which is only the third rank up
2) The Eagle Mk.III is surplus due to being replaced by the Imperial Fighter
 

DangerousLarry

D
The Imperial Clipper is locked to rank.

The Federal Dropship isn't locked to any rank.

The Type 7 is a specific freighter and costs a considerable amount. The Clipper, while being roughly 5million more than a Type 7 would cost about the same as a Type 7 to fit for pure trading. I think we all know the Imperial Clipper is in a really good spot right now. No idea why it's as good as it is but there you have it and I can't fathom why it has a higher jump range than the Type 7.

The only thing going for the Federal Dropship is it's a dropship which classes it as a passenger ship. It might be terrible now but in the future -- maybe planetary landings expansion -- it could be amazing for making credits if passengers and cargo hold are totally separate and transporting soldiers is highly profitable.

The problem is the Imperial Clipper is too good by comparison for any role. I think pretty much anyone will tell you this. It either needs to be nerfed or the Type 7 needs a serious buff to it's hold capacity to make it stand out more as a trade ship.
 

Lord Momo

Lord Momo
Cmdr Cunomaglus said:
I won't argue with the points you're making exactly, but I'd ask a question in response; why do we need more than one type of sports car? Why more than one type of gun or toaster or fishing rod or washing machine? Elite was never about the direct progression from Ship A to Ship B to Ship C at which point you win the game, it's about flying the ship you like and doing what you want with it.

Personally I'd like to see another couple of dozen types of ships at least, some better, some worse, some insanely expensive and some ridiculously cheap, just for the variety, without a single thought given to the purely gaming concepts of 'balance' and 'progression'.
Click to expand...

Yeah but every ship should have its advantage than, what's the dropships, in no scenario in any point in the game is it good, why? It shouldn't be best at everything, but best at something other than some people think it looks cool.
 

Winecork

W
PavelKCZ said:
I jumped directly from Asp to Python. Much better way of progress IMHO.

On the other side, Imperial Clipper is a nice ship, I have one too, currently I am outfitting it, just for fun.
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I also jumped from Asp to Python to take advantage of a hefty discount at Hudson. But I'm really regretting it and rather than playing the game enthusiastically on a daily basis, I now play once or twice a week at best. The outfitting of the Python to get even close to an OK PVE build is a serious grind and it's just sucked up all the enthusiasm I had for the game. May get it back, I still play on occasion.

I would have much preferred to take the next step from an Asp to a Drop ship (Federation aligned) but it's a lemon. And compared to the Clipper, well there is no real comparison. I was all hyped up over the Diamond back, but yet another fighter to add to the long list of fighters.

Yep have to agree, the game has great scenery, great game mechanics, poor ship progression and choice.
 

IronGremlin

I
DangerousLarry said:
The Imperial Clipper is locked to rank.

The Federal Dropship isn't locked to any rank.
Click to expand...


Umm, that's interesting, because I totally can't buy one until I'm an ensign in the federation.

Do you just mean to say that Federation rank is worth nothing because imperial ships are vastly superior for no reason?
 

Gryphorim

G
Maybe instead of buffing/nerfing any of the ship, their pricing should be reviewed. Maybe Type7 should be more like 11million, FDS should be 15million and clipper stays at 23million.
Alternately, if ships need buffing/nerfing, I would think the FDS could get the rumored 2 small weapons mounts added and it's price kept as is, but I really do think the type7 is too expensive for what it offers.
 
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